IFR Flight plan

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mxalix258

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mxalix258
I have my instrument check ride coming up, and am kind of paranoid about the flight I was asked to plan. There wasn't much emphasis on the flight planning portion for my training, and there isn't much more than a page in the Jeppesen Instrument/Commercial book on it.

Should I just plan a reasonable route to my destination, and call it good? or should I use a site like fltplan.com and use what is typically given for a flight between the two airports?

I just can see myself in a situation with the examiner going over the nav log, and he asks why I chose that route and he'll look at me like an idiot if I say "it was the most recently given flight plan by ATC on fltplan.com" There just really isn't a reasonable way to explain what fltplan suggests, other than that is what ATC is assigning lately.

Thanks for the advice.
 
What is the origin and destination?
 
Seems to me that you need to talk with your instructor about why IFR flight planning wasn't included in your lessons. What did you do on your IFR cross-country flights?
 
I'll tell you what I did. I came up with a route and went and filed it. A short while later I looked on Flightaware to see what I would have been given and used that.


You can file one as long as you don't call up for a clearance as it will just fall out of the system at some point.


When I fly I do pretty much the same thing, file what I'd like and check Flightaware before calling up CD. Saves some hassle when writing the clearance down since I already have most of it written down then.
 
Obviously you would want a route that is pretty direct to your destination. Think about what you will do once you are rated.. Using fltpln and taking a suggested route isn't a bad idea, then modify it any way you see fit. Use all available resources, pilot.
 
I think this is one of those areas where there are many ways to end up in the same place. When I did my training I often filed VOR to VOR and came up with some fairly complex routes. I use DUAT for actual flight filing now, and look at there recommended routes, but typically file direct, unless there is some compelling reason not to such as TFR, or airspace issues such as prohibited. In reality, I have rarely get clearance for what I filed, and rarely end up flying what I have been given by ATC. So for me it is just easier to file direct then try to predict what ATC is going to give me on a given day, and be prepared for changes, as I know they will occur.
 
AggieMike88 said:
What is the origin and destination?
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Flight planning from Manassas (HEF) to Charleston, WV (CRW).

Fltplan suggests HEF - CSN - LDN - COLNS - HVQ.

Which seems reasonable, as it goes around the Evers MOA area.
 
I was given a "simple" route too but got tripped up on this on my oral. First I checked the AFD and no preferred route was listed. Next I looked at the plates for my destination and saw there STARS that could be applicable. The I looked at fltplan.com at recent clearances and there were 2 different clearances given with about equal frequency, so I picked one. None of the fltplan.com routes used any STARs. In the oral I showed him my route and he didn't ask any questions about it and then he went on to discussing my alternate, fuel, etc. then he circled back and said he would play ATC and give me the clearance he wanted me to fly, and he gave me a STAR with a specific transition. I accepted the clearance, not noticing that the first part of the clearance didn't mesh with the transition he gave me, and he used that as a teaching point to not blindly trust what ATC gives you...
 
  1. Do what you'd do if you were making the flight yourself the day after the practical test.
  2. If you don't know what you'd do then, go back to your instructor and ask for some additional training in this area before the practical test.
 
While I'm okay with you asking questions here, I think Ron is on to something that this is a conversation you should also be having with your CFI-I. You might have hit on a gap in your training that needs to be closed before both your exam and real world flying.
 
mxalix258 said:
What is everyone's opinion of this routing? From HEF to CRW

http://skyvector.com/?ll=38.6606356...m=4&plan=A.K6.KHEF:V.K6.CSN:V.K6.EKN:V.K6.HVQ

I planned this instead of taking V128 to HVQ because of the MOA that it goes through. (thinking lost comms, wouldn't want to be going through a potentially hot MOA).
Click to expand...

Do two plans - with the MOA hot and cold.
I did just that with the FL wx in mind - if it sucks here, we go there. If it sucks there, we go here. Just show the man that you are thinking about your options. No particularly goodreason to go around a cold MOA.
 
moonshine said:
Do two plans - with the MOA hot and cold.
I did just that with the FL wx in mind - if it sucks here, we go there. If it sucks there, we go here. Just show the man that you are thinking about your options. No particularly goodreason to go around a cold MOA.
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You only get to present one plan on the practical test. Make sure you know the MOA status (at least as far as published or NOTAM'd times as of your briefing time) and give the examiner an appropriate plan for the situation as it appears at brief time. That's part of the test -- your ability to identify issues affecting your flight and plan accordingly.
 
Ron Levy said:
You only get to present one plan on the practical test. Make sure you know the MOA status (at least as far as published or NOTAM'd times as of your briefing time) and give the examiner an appropriate plan for the situation as it appears at brief time. That's part of the test -- your ability to identify issues affecting your flight and plan accordingly.
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That's they key. Even when choosing a routing based on prior clearances (FltPlan, Foreflight), the idea is to consider such things as weather, winds, airspace, diversion potentials... just like you would do on a real flight.
 
File a reasonable path to your destination on airways and then study the chart along your route carefully.

You can get away with being stumped for some random, obscure thing on the chart. But don't get stumped on anything on/near your planned route.
 
Without "local knowledge", I'd file the most direct way and carry enough gas for the reroute.

The other way to handle it in real life would be to file around the MOA and then ask for the more direct route when airborne.

Both are equally valid.



mxalix258 said:
Flight planning from Manassas (HEF) to Charleston, WV (CRW).

Fltplan suggests HEF - CSN - LDN - COLNS - HVQ.

Which seems reasonable, as it goes around the Evers MOA area.
Click to expand...
 
jonnyjetprop said:
Without "local knowledge", I'd file the most direct way and carry enough gas for the reroute.
Click to expand...
That's not exactly what examiners want to hear on an IR practical test. They want to see that you examined all the available information including preferred and TEC routes, special use airspace, aircraft capabilities, weather, etc, and then selected a route that provides a safe and efficient flight.

The other way to handle it in real life would be to file around the MOA and then ask for the more direct route when airborne.
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If the MOA is published or NOTAM'd active at the time of the flight, that's not demonstrating the level of knowledge and competence expected on an IR practical test.
 
Ask your instructor as to what the examiner expects. Personally, I usually file around the MOA when headed in that direction.

That said, the standard routing that ATC will assign (your actual clearance) will most likely be ARSNL3.LDN LDN275 to intercept V286 EKN thence some routing to destination (probably direct).
 
wsuffa said:
That said, the standard routing that ATC will assign (your actual clearance) will most likely be ARSNL3.LDN LDN275 to intercept V286 EKN thence some routing to destination (probably direct).
Click to expand...
Last time --- whatever routing you use, the examiner is probably going to ask how you came up with that routing. If the answer is "I asked some folks on the internet and this is what they said," you have not exhibited knowledge and understanding of the process of route selection in IFR flight planning.
 
Ron Levy said:
Last time --- whatever routing you use, the examiner is probably going to ask how you came up with that routing. If the answer is "I asked some folks on the internet and this is what they said," you have not exhibited knowledge and understanding of the process of route selection in IFR flight planning.
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Probably not the last time since you seemed on this one to go out of your way to take Bill's statement out of its context - what the "That said" refers to. You know, the
Ask your instructor as to what the examiner expects.
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part - just so you could disagree and say it again.
 
Ron Levy said:
Last time --- whatever routing you use, the examiner is probably going to ask how you came up with that routing. If the answer is "I asked some folks on the internet and this is what they said," you have not exhibited knowledge and understanding of the process of route selection in IFR flight planning.
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No disagreement. Hence the reason I suggested he discuss it with his instructor. I would fully expect that the examiner would want to see the departure procedure (SID), given that Manassas has one & that it is almost always assigned (due to IAD and the SFRA/FRZ), and then some reasonable routing to the destination.

I thought it would be worthwhile to point out that Potomac usually assigns the routing I mentioned when headed toward Charleston, Cincinnati, Lexington, etc. It's not something that most folks will know in advance unless they're flying out of HEF regularly... and it's IS something that requires a bit more thought than just stuffing D> waypoints into a Garmin 430.

FWIW, I never FILE that routing, but I expect to hear it in a full route clearance.
 
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Point is that telling him the route to expect without telling him where to find that information isn't helping him pass the test. And while "that's the route Potomac usually give me" isn't unreasonable, to pass that test, the OP needs to know how to get that information himself, say, by calling ATC on the phone, or checking "recently cleared" routes in ForeFlight or flightplan.com, or using the Routes/Waypoints section of the A/FD, etc.
 
mxalix258 said:
What is everyone's opinion of this routing? From HEF to CRW

http://skyvector.com/?ll=38.6606356...m=4&plan=A.K6.KHEF:V.K6.CSN:V.K6.EKN:V.K6.HVQ

I planned this instead of taking V128 to HVQ because of the MOA that it goes through. (thinking lost comms, wouldn't want to be going through a potentially hot MOA).
Click to expand...

I hate to get Socratic methody, but...

If you're thinking lost comms, is HVQ VOR an IAF for your preferred approach? For an expected approach based on forecast winds? Not that there's any chance you'll get to the end of the line on that particular day, but it would kind of suck of get 'cleared as filed' one day only to find yourself 'hoist by your own petard'.

Good luck on the checkride, and come back to write about it.

ETA: "NEVERMIND" -Emily Litella

http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1208411#post1208411

Congrats!
 
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