IFR Currency question...

AggieMike88

AggieMike88

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The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
For the purposes of retaining IFR currency, can you guys elaborate on what I can do (should be doing) to comply with 61.57(1)(ii) Recent Flight Experience: Pilot in Command -- Holding procedures and tasks?


Getting a hold instruction from ATC is an obvious one, but it seems that doesn't occur that often.

Does doing the 4nm hold for an course reversal on a RNAV IAP count? I did have one of those when going into KMLC.

In a pinch, can I go up with a safety pilot and perform my own hold while not talking with ATC?

If I shot the VOR/DME 17 approach at KLUD, would performing that course reversal turn count?

Other suggestions?
 
You can ASK ATC for a hold, even in actual IMC. You can certainly do this with a safety pilot.

I've seen conflicting advice as to whether a hold entry for HILPT counts, so the conservative thing is not to count it. Most of the guys I've helped with currency (safety pilot) seem to use missed approach holds. They ask for a practice approach, to terminate in a published missed approach.
 
I'm of the opinion that HILPT counts, but don't quote that as 100% accurate (I don't actually fly many approaches with HILPTs, so I don't think they've been needed for currency). However, I have gone up with a safety pilot and flown holds with or without talking to ATC. Some published (maybe as part of the missed procedure) and others not (just holding over a VOR). In order to feel good about counting it, though, I pick a radial to hold on and determine entry procedure. I doubt that's required (since the "standard" entries are just suggestions), but it feels like "cheating" to just fly to the VOR and hold with a direct entry on whatever radial I happen to hit the VOR on. At least my way, I'm keeping the entry determinations/procedures/techniques fresh in my mind. Then, I go around as many times as it takes to get a one minute inbound leg. No wind? Not many times around. Lots of wind? Might take 3, 4, 5 times around.
 
I always just used a missed approach hold. Good practice to be sure that you also fly a full missed approach as published once in a while and not just "contact departure" and vectors to you next intention.

I just breezed through that reg...did not see anywhere that is says anything about having to be talking to ATC for that section of IFR currency...although at least FF is always a good idea.
 
Shawn said:
I always just used a missed approach hold. Good practice to be sure that you also fly a full missed approach as published once in a while and not just "contact departure" and vectors to you next intention.

I just breezed through that reg...did not see anywhere that is says anything about having to be talking to ATC for that section of IFR currency...although at least FF is always a good idea.
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A recent interpretation letter said you had to accept vectors from ATC OR fly the full approach from an IAF through a missed, in VMC with a view limiting device.
 
MAKG1 said:
A recent interpretation letter said you had to accept vectors from ATC OR fly the full approach from an IAF through a missed, in VMC with a view limiting device.
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I knew it was vectors or full approach...but for a hold specifically there need not be specific ATC instructions if you fly the whole approach, miss, and hold to meet currency.

AggieMike88 said:
Getting a hold instruction from ATC is an obvious one, but it seems that doesn't occur that often.?
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You can sill fly the whole approach and not talk to a soul and still meet the currency, correct? Hold instruction FROM ATC is not not part of the requirement....just to legally hold is....which to MAKG1's point would require a full published approach from the IAF to be "legal"
 
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I'm pretty sure HILPTs count but can't point to a regulatory source. Maybe someone can find a Chief Counsel opinion on point. In any case, they certainly meet the spirit of the requirement: you have to enter the holding pattern, intercept the inbound course and cross the holding fix twice in the process. The only thing not involved is timing adjustments, but there are plenty of missed approach holds with 4nm legs too, and no one has ever suggested that those don't count for currency.
 
azure said:
I'm pretty sure HILPTs count but can't point to a regulatory source. Maybe someone can find a Chief Counsel opinion on point. In any case, they certainly meet the spirit of the requirement: you have to enter the holding pattern, intercept the inbound course and cross the holding fix twice in the process. The only thing not involved is timing adjustments, but there are plenty of missed approach holds with 4nm legs too, and no one has ever suggested that those don't count for currency.
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There is none. Don't ask for one.

To most of us, there is no question making the appropriate entry into a HILPT and correct for wind conditions in order to intercept the inbound course before the FAF or glideslope intercept , while maintaining the appropriate distance limitations defining protected airspace is a "holding procedure." If you look at the task breakdown in Instrument ACS and the PTS before it for "holding procedures" they are accomplished in a HILPT.
 
midlifeflyer said:
There is none. Don't ask for one.

To most of us, there is no question making the appropriate entry into a HILPT and correct for wind conditions in order to intercept the inbound course before the FAF or glideslope intercept , while maintaining the appropriate distance limitations defining protected airspace is a "holding procedure." If you look at the task breakdown in Instrument ACS and the PTS before it for "holding procedures" they are accomplished in a HILPT.
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Exactly. A "hold in lieu of a procedure turn" is still a hold. Flew a HILPT? Congrats, you just flew a hold.
 
If I cross a fix twice, I call it a hold.
 
Brad Z said:
Even a barbed PT?
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...that I fly as a tear drop - you betcha!

Though, I don't remember the last time I flew one of those - and I think the last one I flew was VOR on the field, so I never crossed any fix twice.
 
EdFred said:
...that I fly as a tear drop - you betcha!

Though, I don't remember the last time I flew one of those - and I think the last one I flew was VOR on the field, so I never crossed any fix twice.
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Something had to define the FAF.
 
AggieMike88 said:
For the purposes of retaining IFR currency, can you guys elaborate on what I can do (should be doing) to comply with 61.57(1)(ii) Recent Flight Experience: Pilot in Command -- Holding procedures and tasks?


Getting a hold instruction from ATC is an obvious one, but it seems that doesn't occur that often.

Does doing the 4nm hold for an course reversal on a RNAV IAP count? I did have one of those when going into KMLC.

In a pinch, can I go up with a safety pilot and perform my own hold while not talking with ATC?

If I shot the VOR/DME 17 approach at KLUD, would performing that course reversal turn count?

Other suggestions?
Click to expand...

The Reality is, you are expected to be able to understand and identifiably fly an instructed hold. You are required to practice holding procedures at least once over the course of 6 months to stay legal. For some that is enough, for others, it isn't.

If you feel capable, after entering your own self created hold on a local vor, then so be it. If performing a course reversal includes all of the "procedures and tasks" of a hold, count it. But just like every other part of aviation, that is just the required minimums. Create a personal minimum for yourself that you feel comfortable with. If you screw up, be ready to support your own case.
 
TheGolfPilot said:
The Reality is, you are expected to be able to understand and identifiably fly an instructed hold. You are required to practice holding procedures at least once over the course of 6 months to stay legal. For some that is enough, for others, it isn't.

If you feel capable, after entering your own self created hold on a local vor, then so be it. If performing a course reversal includes all of the "procedures and tasks" of a hold, count it. But just like every other part of aviation, that is just the required minimums. Create a personal minimum for yourself that you feel comfortable with. If you screw up, be ready to support your own case.
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That applies to each and every FAA currency requirement. Log for currency, fly for proficiency, and hope you never confuse the two.
 
I always fly the missed on at least one of my practice approaches.
 
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