If you like your EAA you can keep your EAA...

hindsight2020

hindsight2020

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hindsight2020
Figured I pose the question to this peanut gallery, with all the froth about the airplane state carnie going on in Wisconsin at the moment.

Is there truly a sentiment of lamentation about the increased footprint of non-ExAB aircraft and owners in EAA sponsored events, such as OSH and Young Eagles? I've felt what appears to me at least, as an uptick in jabs referencing the loss of experimental-centrism in said events and online publications.

Granted, I belong to the Rodney King church of let's all just get along, and actually find GA already classist enough as it is to not be a positive selling point to sub-150K/yr HH outsiders, but otherwise have no real opinion on people having their fifedoms. I just wonder if the exAB crowd really is hostile to the idea of mainsteaming their footprint to certified cans, or is it a case of an old cantankerous minority screaming old guard for old time's sake?

Anecdotally at least, I became an EAA member on a one time basis so I could help out with Young eagles. I've never owned an EXAB and have given kids rides in a PA-28/161 and 28R200. Nobody cared. So by that metric I'd be inclined to say it's not a widespread sentiment. Then they went stupid with the paperwork, plus the kids were tearing up my airplane and seemed largely disinterested (border town kids with half-a### parents looking to a freebie on a saturday, not the prime demographic to inspire anyone to do anything really), so I walked away from YE and didn't renew, but that's beside the point.

So what say you? EAA inclusive or hostile towards diluting their scope?
 
Never owned an EXAB joined EAA to get the better rate on non-owned insurance, better magazine, seemingly better overall organization than the other big one I belonged to before. I would love to build one someday but I don't think I have the patience for a long term project like that. I do work on airplanes at a museum as a volunteer and enjoy that quite a bit.
 
I really enjoy their magazine, but I also think they do more for experimental and GA than that other organization I won't give money too. Seem to be a lot less focused on the very high price point flying. Started an experimental build and the resources are great, as well as good deals on rental cars when I go on vacation. With GA shrinking in general, it may just be necessary to combine certified and experimental crowds. They also have interesting information and work on restoring old certified planes. Seems like a decent all-around group.
 
EAA has gone from a small grass-roots organization, to large one focused on EVERYTHING Aviation, from Drones and Ultra-lights to Big Military Aluminum. That includes political lobbying for GA, a MUST in today's America, I, for one, LIKE the change.
 
The EAA has done more for rank and file GA pilots than AOPA in my opinion. I'm building an E-AB and aside from the registration packet I won't use any EAA services. That's not what it's about to me. It's about protecting and growing the small airplane GA presence. No biz jet focus or big city attitude. I like it. The LSA program was EAA's brainchild. So was expanding it, which morphed into the 3rd class medical reform that recently passed through Congress. AOPA will take the credit but EAA was the engine from my perspective.
 
Why not support both EAA andAOPA it's only more aviation dollars.
 
I let my eaa membership lapse years ago for that reason.work with aopa but keep eaa, eaa. Oshkosh has become aopa expo and an airshow. It's all about money now, I think that's why papa Paul parted ways years ago. They have gotten back to their roots a little in the past few years but they really need to get back to their roots.

Bob
 
I'm in both, and my plane was built by dozens of people in a factory a few decades ago. The GA population has always been small, and Washington reacts now to mostly money followed by numbers; if we split, the influence of both groups will diminish even more.

I also joined EAA specifically for Young Eagle flights, but enjoy the magazine. Never lived near an active chapter, but have recently discovered one just a 40-minute flight further into LA, plus a big one near Atlanta about the same distance. Need to check them out . .
 
I'm all for EAA having a big house, as long as it doesn't mean that my room at the bigger house (EXAB) gets smaller, which is my perception of what's been happening.
 
Seems EAA is making a real effort to "keep'em flying" including HB, LSA, S-LSA, Ultralight, vintage, historical military, and pilots, too.

I think in the last 18 months they have emphasized their service organization nature and downplayed their attempts of a few years ago to be a business.

I've written by email their tech people with a question and got an immediate response that completely answered my question.
 
EdFred said:
EAA is more a beer and pretzels crowd while AOPA caters to the wine and cheese elitists.
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I'm for the Single Malt Whisky and Chili Bunch but I belong to both EAA and AOPA anyway.

The recent changes to EAA get my vote and their workshops and tips sections have been very helpful in my airplane building hobby.

Cheers
 
Jack Pelton inherited a real mess when he was asked to step in at EAA. He's done a fabulous job leading the recovery of an organisation that was in real trouble. And given his track record and credentials from his days defending and expanding the single engine products at Cessna, he's committed to "small airplanes" and their owners and pilots that make up the bulk of EAA membership.

I've been an EAA member since my first trip to OSH in 1985. Always wanted to build my own airplane - an RV-8 would be top of my list - but like a lot of people never managed to engineer the intersection of enough time and enough money to make it happen. But I get more than enough out of my membership to justify the annual dues.
 
Hank S said:
I'm in both, and my plane was built by dozens of people in a factory a few decades ago. The GA population has always been small, and Washington reacts now to mostly money followed by numbers; if we split, the influence of both groups will diminish even more.

I also joined EAA specifically for Young Eagle flights, but enjoy the magazine. Never lived near an active chapter, but have recently discovered one just a 40-minute flight further into LA, plus a big one near Atlanta about the same distance. Need to check them out . .
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Pancake Breakfast coming up next Saturday. We serve from 8:00am - 9:45am. Speaker next week is Zellie Rainey. For more details on the program go to www.eaa690.org Are you coming in from AL? If so come find me and I'll take care of your breakfast.

Randy Epstein
President - EAA 690
 
Hmm, .... I've been reading EAA Experimenter and Sport Aviation for a lot of years. And, am not aware that there is any "us vs them" going on. If anything, I'd think some of the old timers might take a friendly jibe about the match-hole kit planes of today being too easy to be real EAB . But, even that I haven't heard.
 
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EppyGA said:
Pancake Breakfast coming up next Saturday. We serve from 8:00am - 9:45am. Speaker next week is Zellie Rainey. For more details on the program go to www.eaa690.org Are you coming in from AL? If so come find me and I'll take care of your breakfast.

Randy Epstein
President - EAA 690
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I'm out of town right now, so won't make a meeting on the 30th. But I'll certainly add Hoschton to the list. Thanks for the invite!

Me speak too fast! Follow link--breakfast on 6 Aug should be doable. I'll stay in touch. I was based at 06A for almost two years, until I bought a house and the drive went from 20 min to 45-50 min.
 
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I've always liked EAA, if anything more than AOPA, funny how it was EAA, not AOPA, who helped get better ex-experimental avionics into the CERTIFIED fleet.
 
I have been a life member of both and belong to two local chapters of EAA. One local chapter boasts of being the largest in New England with over 200 members. More than half regularly fly regular GA aircraft. Many build and fly their own. The other fly a variety of regular GA and Warbirds. Seen to the left, mine is more vintage than warbird.
AOPA seems more about building a larger bank account than encouraging more GA. EAA encourages home built while fully supporting GA. When 3rd class medical reform was being battled out, I got requests from AOPA for donations at a rate of 5 to one over EAA.
And I am not going to say a thing about AOPA and their new premium memberships. More of the same.
 
I joined EAA about five years ago. Dove in with a three year membership. I have not renewed. The magazine was interesting. What disappointed me was that after eight pancake breakfast fly ins to six different chapters, I was able to engage a total of one person in a conversation that was longer than "good morning".
 
When I first started flying I joined AOPA for the training magazine and ended up getting discounts on my PPL and Instrument written. So really it paid for itself, I didn't rejoin after that year of 'Student' memberships for the following reasons;
  • Didn't find the value in the magazine after reading 6 or so issues.
  • The constant barrage of donation requests.
  • When I tried to use their Insurance and Financing services I was just routed out and brokered to another vendor. Ended up finding better insurance rates on my own and decided to pay cash for my plane.
  • The only thing I enjoyed was AOPA life and then they made Melissa Rudinger a full time co-host and she has zero personality and is painful to watch, so I stopped watching that.
  • Lastly saw the salaries they are paying their execs, which seems completely out of scope for a non-profit organization.
Before my AOPA membership was up I really started looking at experimental aircraft. I decided to join EAA and then joined a chapter at my home field. There's a mix of home-builts, certified and non airplane owners in the mix. Personally it doesn't matter to me what someone flies or even if they fly at all, if they like aviation we have something in common and can carry on a conversation. I'm one of the youngest in the chapter at 41 and the guys have been great in helping me on my RV-10 build. The EAA Site videos have been equally beneficial to me and I even like their magazine. If I had to criticize the organization it would be this;
  • High focus on young eagles, that's not really something I'm interested in. I promote aviation to my friends kids and give rides but not interested in taking strangers up, the liability concerns me.
  • The meetings are a bit lack luster, I want to talk about planes and building and in general we talk about YE events and then watch the EAA Chapter Video... however that said I have great conversations before and after the meeting... typically about planes and builds.
So own a plane, don't own a plane... whatever... if you like planes join up with EAA and go to some meetings, or go to a meeting before you even join and check it out. If someone thumbs their nose at you because you don't have an experimental call them an ******* and walk off.
 
OkieAviator said:
When I first started flying I joined AOPA for the training magazine and ended up getting discounts on my PPL and Instrument written. So really it paid for itself, I didn't rejoin after that year of 'Student' memberships for the following reasons.
<snip>
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I am in the same boat. I joined on the student deal after my discovery flight. I decided pretty quickly not to rejoin for more or less the same reasons you talk about.

Number 1 by far is all the begging for money. Based on the exec salaries and all the money they spend on sending out requests for money I imagine there is not much left to accomplish the goals they set for themselves.

This is now the third advocacy group I have backed out of because they spend the vast majority of their time and effort fund raising. The other two were both gun related groups.

At some point these groups will realize that people will give them money if they focus on showing us how that money is effectively being used to accomplish the goal that originally caused us to join them, and we will run away in droves if we are made to feel like an ATM through the-sky-is-falling messaging on a constant basis. Now all they do is fill my spam box and file 13 with all their mailings.
 
The flying privileges you new guys enjoy are largely facilitated by AOPA and EAA. That you don't choose to support them is simply a product of your willingness to ride on the shirt tails of others who do. You must be good democrats.
 
Stewartb said:
The flying privileges you new guys enjoy are largely facilitated by AOPA and EAA. That you don't choose to support them is simply a product of your willingness to ride on the shirt tails of others who do. You must be good democrats.
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<sarcasm on> Nice to see a well thought our response by someone that shows respect to their peers. <sarcasm off> And just to answer your accusation, I may have voted for a couple, read 2 or 3 tops, of democrats in the past, but there is no way in the world anyone would consider me a democrat. More of a libertarian than anything else if I actually felt like registering for a specific party, but I remain unaffiliated.

I know nothing about EAA, so I will ignore them for the moment. If AOPA did not follow the group researched and designed scare tactics of constant "the fight is not over yet" and "THEY are going to take something away from you" messaging on a constant basis then I would still be a member. I would guess that my original fees have been eaten up, and then some, by just the costs to design, print, and mail me something asking for more money twice a week.

If they would like me to rejoin then all they have to do is set a yearly rate that allows them to only ask for more money if something really unusual happens to come up unexpectedly, and prove to me that 80% or more of all fees are actually going directly to education and advocacy.

So until that happens I will ride your coattails.
 
Stewartb said:
The flying privileges you new guys enjoy are largely facilitated by AOPA and EAA. That you don't choose to support them is simply a product of your willingness to ride on the shirt tails of others who do. You must be good democrats.
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Exactly! AOPA calls itself a pilot's organization so pilots should blindly send in their money whether or not they feel the organization is bloated and more interested in feeding itself. To not support a top heavy, slow moving and relatively ineffective group is a blow to pilots everywhere. 'Merica!
 
Blindrage said:
The other two were both gun related groups.
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After 10 years did not renew my NRA memberships... between the panhandling and all the emails about the government taking my guns just seemed a bit to radical for me. I still own a number of firearms, carry one at times and go shooting... just not as an NRA member.

Stewartb said:
You must be good democrats.
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I don't blindly follow, or blindly donate... I have to believe more in just the cause, I have to also believe in their operations and use of funds before I donate my hard earned money. Point me to the direction of the changes AOPA has pushed to facilitate my ability to fly airplanes and maybe I'll change my tune and join up... because I'm ignorant on AOPA past actions.
 
Hank S said:
I'm out of town right now, so won't make a meeting on the 30th. But I'll certainly add Hoschton to the list. Thanks for the invite!

Me speak too fast! Follow link--breakfast on 6 Aug should be doable. I'll stay in touch. I was based at 06A for almost two years, until I bought a house and the drive went from 20 min to 45-50 min.
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Just to be sure, the breakfast is at KLZU. If you fly in tell them you're going to the EAA ramp.
 
well judging by the responses so far it appears as though the decrease of homebuilt-centrism is not as big of a thorn on the side of most EAA members when it comes to EAA events as some of the online comments in other sites led me to believe. I think I counted two responses here that lamented the shift.

And even though I didn't renew, I think the EAA is certainly doing its part of the advocacy front. I do have insurance through AOPA, and indeed all they are is a broker medium, but do find their constant dues spamming and pandering and inflating their effectiveness in Congress a bit tired. I still think they have a place in the advocacy in GA. I figure they get their kickback with my insurance brokering so I'm paying them anyways lol

Anyways, great responses guys. It's interesting to hear the many angles people come from when it comes to these GA alphabet soup organizations.
 
I've been an AOPA member since 99, and will be until my current membership cycle expires. I can cope with the donation request, but get increasingly frustrated at the magazine articles and news stories that are thinly veiled up-sell opportunities for other AOPA services. The one that finally pushed me over the edge was a recent e-mail story that followed the line "Now that 3rd Class medical reform is a reality, you'll need our additional pilot protection services to help you navigate it".

I joined the EAA after SNF for two reasons. First, because the type of aviation they work for is the type that I enjoy. I don't own an experimental, but that's the only difference. I joined it because of what it currently is, and I hope that doesn't shift too much. Second, I thought the Dynon STC move was a fantastic one, and I wanted to support the organization that came up with it. Interestingly AOPA had the opportunity to up the game, but instead chose to take a "me too" approach. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, right?

I'd love to learn more about homebuilding. I'm unlikely to be able to find the time to ever do it, but that doesn't mean I'm not inherently curious.
 
Once they got rid of Paul's kid, and the jerk that followed who put up white picket fences all over blocking event access to us little people (!), they have really turned around and gotten good. Pretty serious certified guy now runs the show and does a great job IMHO....
I rejoin every year I go to OSH.
 
I agree, Tom P, hurt EAA badly with pursuing the high dollar six digit plus kits at the expense of affordable flying. Hightower didn't help. EAA has done a good job of incorporating all facets of aviation.
 
N3368K said:
I agree, Tom P, hurt EAA badly with pursuing the high dollar six digit plus kits at the expense of affordable flying. Hightower didn't help. EAA has done a good job of incorporating all facets of aviation.
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Right, if a person was turned off 18 months or so ago, give EAA another look. It has improved.

AOPA on the other hand . . . .
 
I personally think that EAA, AOPA, SPA, NBAA, etc. do an excellent job of advocating for those of us in aviation. They also do a pretty good job at other things as well such as educational programs, providing services such as insurance and legal protection, publishing good magazines, hosting events, etc. Are any of them perfect? Of course not. Maybe they try to do too much at times. Maybe their focus at any one time isn't necessarily what I might focus on at that time. Maybe I would do a few things differently.

But I must assume that those who seem to take pleasure at consistently bashing these groups must have all of the answers. Right?

I think it is fantastic that we have such organizations representing our industry and I am glad that we have individuals willing to serve in leadership positions in these organizations. Same for the FAA and CAP, two other groups that get bashed far too often.

If you think you can do better, step up!
 
CMongoose said:
I'd love to learn more about homebuilding. I'm unlikely to be able to find the time to ever do it, but that doesn't mean I'm not inherently curious.
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Get with a local chapter and see who has a project going and offer a hand. You could buy a partially built kit price for cheap, finish it and resell it for probably what you paid for it.

SkyDog58 said:
But I must assume that those who seem to take pleasure at consistently bashing these groups must have all of the answers. Right?
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Welcome to the internet!
 
silver-eagle said:
I have been a life member of both and belong to two local chapters of EAA. One local chapter boasts of being the largest in New England with over 200 members. More than half regularly fly regular GA aircraft. Many build and fly their own. The other fly a variety of regular GA and Warbirds. Seen to the left, mine is more vintage than warbird.
AOPA seems more about building a larger bank account than encouraging more GA. EAA encourages home built while fully supporting GA. When 3rd class medical reform was being battled out, I got requests from AOPA for donations at a rate of 5 to one over EAA.
And I am not going to say a thing about AOPA and their new premium memberships. More of the same.
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Well, AOPA ran a net loss last year, financially-speaking. I'm not sure how much that falls in line with padding the bank account as it did for prior years.

In any case, I think the magazine has started to improve a little bit here since March or so. I also think their big push for flying clubs (and free assistance to help with the navigation of legal/organizational aspects) is a very good idea to help deal with the exorbitant costs of much of the single-engine poison fleets. Sure, there's not as many articles about experimentals and such, but their bread and butter is certified GA. I'm not suggesting that they're fault-free, but I would imagine they've done more than EAA in terms of lobbying, simply due to the dollars and resources available to do so. I only receive a donation request about a half dozen times per year, so I'm not too concerned about that aspect.

I think belonging to both organizations has merit, and there's little reason to pit one against the other. They both do good things for GA, even if they target different audiences and methods.

Sent from my SM-T700 using Tapatalk
 
Been an AOPA member for a long time. A few months back they ran that character Jenner in AOPA magazine, and then ran it in Pilot Training magazine too. I wrote and told them why I would not be renewing because of this. Why is Jenner so special, because he's gotten back into aviation? Really, I think it's something else. Are there not more worthy and more deserving interesting pilots out there they could have used? As they say, free country so I threw away my renewal card and the rest of the contents away yesterday. For now 'Flying" magazine is sufficient along with 3-4 other aviation rags I get every month. No more AOPA/Flight Training though.
 
mscard88 said:
Been an AOPA member for a long time. A few months back they ran that character Jenner in AOPA magazine, and then ran it in Pilot Training magazine too. I wrote and told them why I would not be renewing because of this. Why is Jenner so special, because he's gotten back into aviation? Really, I think it's something else. Are there not more worthy and more deserving interesting pilots out there they could have used? As they say, free country so I threw away my renewal card and the rest of the contents away yesterday. For now 'Flying" magazine is sufficient along with 3-4 other aviation rags I get every month. No more AOPA/Flight Training though.
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So, is it just the timing that bothers you? I don't care about Jenner in the least nor any of his identities or Kardashian-ilk, but the guy has thousands of hours of logged time, so why is it deplorable that a story be done? I don't think his gender-change or any of the media escapades were even mentioned in the article, either. Is it that easy to have you jump ship? You must storm out of a restaurant when the waiter recommends the fish, when you came for the steak!

Sent from my SM-T700 using Tapatalk
 
Guess I'd heard enough about him/her and that family. I didn't and don't feel it's AOPA's job focusing ink on it that's all. It's my choice and I have no regrets about quitting AOPA and giving them $80 yearly. Obviously you feel different and that's your business and right. I respect that. But I also can have my say. BTW I like fish so I'd probably accept the waiter's recommendation, and not storm out.
 
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