If you can get Flight Following... Do it. (cross from Purple)

Ted DuPuis said:
Kept on flying to my destination. I didn't need it, it was a nice to have, and if I'm going around airspace I always plan assuming that I'm not going to get clearance through it.

In other words, not having it was no big deal.
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If you kept on flying to your destination it doesn't sound like you waited for flight following. If the airspace you were going around was Class B or Class C it was Class B or Class C services that were denied, not just flight following.
 
Mine only squawks in binary, so I end up squawking

100100011001
 
roncachamp said:
If you kept on flying to your destination it doesn't sound like you waited for flight following. If the airspace you were going around was Class B or Class C it was Class B or Class C services that were denied, not just flight following.
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How am I not waiting for flight following if I'm told "standby" (which to me effectively means "wait") and am continuing to fly? I'm not going to fly around in circles while waiting for ATC to get back to me.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
How am I not waiting for flight following if I'm told "standby" (which to me effectively means "wait") and am continuing to fly? I'm not going to fly around in circles while waiting for ATC to get back to me.
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He's getting technical again... if you went, you didn't wait. You asked for FF, and didn't receive it, but you didn't wait, you went.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
How am I not waiting for flight following if I'm told "standby" (which to me effectively means "wait") and am continuing to fly?
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Because you continued on your way.

I'm not going to fly around in circles while waiting for ATC to get back to me.
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I wouldn't either, I'd continue, as you did. When I continue I don't call it waiting.
 
Spike and I flew a weekend ago around the D/FW Class B; I have TIS on the P-Baron. Spike can confirm how many times we were given a heads up on where traffic was--direction and altitude above or below us up to 1,000 feet. Spotting traffic can be difficult even when given direction and relative altitude. We did climb once to avoid a plane neither of us could spot and we were looking hard. Imagine the fella without a traffic alert system that isn't looking very hard for other traffic.

The one thing TIS did was made me aware that the big sky theory is full of holes <g>, especially, around busy airspace.

I can see where folks wouldn't use FF as much in lower traffic areas. In the D/FW area, it sure can help.

Best,

Dave
 
roncachamp said:
I wouldn't either, I'd continue, as you did. When I continue I don't call it waiting.
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Since flight following isn't a clearance to fly, me getting it or not does not influence my continued flight. That does not change the fact that I was waiting for flight following, which I clearly stated. You're confusing what I am waiting for.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Since flight following isn't a clearance to fly, me getting it or not does not influence my continued flight.
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Right, that's what prompted my question.

That does not change the fact that I was waiting for flight following, which I clearly stated. You're confusing what I am waiting for.
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I think you're misusing the word.
 
roncachamp said:
I think you're misusing the word.
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No, I'm not misusing the word.

Right now I'm typing on PoA and to some friends on instant messenger. I'm also waiting for my laundry to finish (I was earlier vacuuming while the laundry was going). The fact that I'm not just sitting around while the laundry is going does not change the fact that I am waiting for it to finish.

One can be waiting for a particular time, item, service, etc. while still performing other tasks that may or may not be related. One can wait for flight following while continuing flight.

End of English lesson.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
No, I'm not misusing the word.

Right now I'm typing on PoA and to some friends on instant messenger. I'm also waiting for my laundry to finish (I was earlier vacuuming while the laundry was going). The fact that I'm not just sitting around while the laundry is going does not change the fact that I am waiting for it to finish.

One can be waiting for a particular time, item, service, etc. while still performing other tasks that may or may not be related. One can wait for flight following while continuing flight.

End of English lesson.
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Well, you did misuse the word, and I wasn't trying to give you an English lesson. You need to let it go.
 
roncachamp said:
Well, you did misuse the word, and I wasn't trying to give you an English lesson. You need to let it go.
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I did not misuse the word, you misunderstand the English language.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I did not misuse the word, you misunderstand the English language.
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Sure, whatever you say. You didn't misuse the word. To wait for something does not mean to remain inactive or in a state of repose until something expected happens. Dictionaries and I misunderstand the English language.
 
roncachamp said:
Because you continued on your way.



I wouldn't either, I'd continue, as you did. When I continue I don't call it waiting.
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When I fuel up my plane with 100LL there is only one option. I HAVE to pay the taxes up front. Those taxes pay your salary. In a perfect world I could choose my type of flight and have a choice between two fuel pumps. As in.. hmm, nice day, little traffic, I am buying the no tax 100LL since I won't be using ATC services and I can fly without saying anything to anybody and save money. But, the guvment gets their money, so if I want flight following and I paid for it I surely don't want to hear from ATC my request for FF '" negative, too busy, maintain VFR". This is akin to driving down a road and coming across a toll plaza, you pay the toll and then the toll plaza operator says ' hey, you can't go down that road... and you ain't getting your money back either.:mad3::mad3::mad2::nonod:..

Your turn Steven P McNickol.:D
 
N801BH said:
When I fuel up my plane with 100LL there is only one option. I HAVE to pay the taxes up front. Those taxes pay your salary. In a perfect world I could choose my type of flight and have a choice between two fuel pumps. As in.. hmm, nice day, little traffic, I am buying the no tax 100LL since I won't be using ATC services and I can fly without saying anything to anybody and save money. But, the guvment gets their money, so if I want flight following and I paid for it I surely don't want to hear from ATC my request for FF '" negative, too busy, maintain VFR". This is akin to driving down a road and coming across a toll plaza, you pay the toll and then the toll plaza operator says ' hey, you can't go down that road... and you ain't getting your money back either.:mad3::mad3::mad2::nonod:..

Your turn Steven P McNickol.:D
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My turn for what? If you expect me to take the position that pilots should be taxed to pay for services they don't use you're in for a disappointment.
 
roncachamp said:
My turn for what? If you expect me to take the position that pilots should be taxed to pay for services they don't use you're in for a disappointment.
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Kool... now, can you get all your fellow atc guys/gals, supervisors, union leaders,etc to never say Flight following denied, too busy, yada yada yada? :yesnod:
 
N801BH said:
Kool... now, can you get all your fellow atc guys/gals, supervisors, union leaders,etc to never say Flight following denied, too busy, yada yada yada? :yesnod:
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No. It's entirely appropriate that flight following be provided on a workload permitting basis.
 
roncachamp said:
Sure, whatever you say. You didn't misuse the word. To wait for something does not mean to remain inactive or in a state of repose until something expected happens. Dictionaries and I misunderstand the English language.
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And if you think that's the only possible meaning of the word "wait", you need to learn to use a dictionary.

1. to remain inactive or in a state of repose, as until something expected happens (often fol. by for, till, or until): to wait for the bus to arrive.
2. (of things) to be available or in readiness: A letter is waiting for you.
3. to remain neglected for a time: a matter that can wait.
4. to postpone or delay something or to be postponed or delayed: We waited a week and then bought the house. Your vacation will have to wait until next month.
5. to look forward to eagerly: I'm just waiting for the day somebody knocks him down.

All of the alternate (and equally valid) definitions of the word better fit Ted's use of the word than the definition you supplied (out of context, I might add). This "out of context" application is exactly how people get thousands of religions that all use the same Bible to "prove" they are the only true religion (as yet another example). Interestingly, it produces the same kind of argumentative zealotry, too.
 
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roncachamp said:
No. It's entirely appropriate that flight following be provided on a workload permitting basis.
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Just one of many flying ironies, in that, when a pilot needs help the most is exactly when he's least likely to get it. I'm in much greater need of flight following help when the skies are busy than when the controller has no other planes in his airspace.
 
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roncachamp said:
No. It's entirely appropriate that flight following be provided on a workload permitting basis.
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Well, since I have already prepaid for ATC services please answer the next two questions.

1- Who determines the level of workload that would cause a denial?

2- Is there actually a formula that quantifies that workload?

Thanks in advance.

Ben.
 
TangoWhiskey said:
And if you think that's the only possible meaning of the word "wait", you need to learn to use a dictionary.

1. to remain inactive or in a state of repose, as until something expected happens (often fol. by for, till, or until): to wait for the bus to arrive.
2. (of things) to be available or in readiness: A letter is waiting for you.
3. to remain neglected for a time: a matter that can wait.
4. to postpone or delay something or to be postponed or delayed: We waited a week and then bought the house. Your vacation will have to wait until next month.
5. to look forward to eagerly: I'm just waiting for the day somebody knocks him down.

All of the alternate (and equally valid) definitions of the word better fit Ted's use of the word than the definition you supplied (out of context, I might add). This "out of context" application is exactly how people get thousands of religions that all use the same Bible to "prove" they are the only true religion (as yet another example). Interestingly, it produces the same kind of argumentative zealotry, too.
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Context. 'Nuf said.
 
N801BH said:
Well, since I have already prepaid for ATC services please answer the next two questions.

1- Who determines the level of workload that would cause a denial?
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The controller, with the knowledge that it can affect his performance rating.

2- Is there actually a formula that quantifies that workload?
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No. The ATC system was established to provide separation between IFR aircraft. Some of the tools created for that purpose, radar and remote radio trancsceivers in the case of flight following, allow ATC to provide additional services. The ability to provide additional services is limited by the volume of traffic, frequency congestion, quality of radar, controller workload, higher priority duties, and the pure physical inability to scan and detect those situations that fall in this category. It is recognized that these services cannot be provided in cases in which the provision of services is precluded by the above factors. Consistent with the aforementioned conditions, controllers are required to provide additional services to the extent permitted by higher priority duties. The provision of additional services is not optional on the part of the controller, but rather is required when the work situation permits.
 
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Dave Siciliano said:
The one thing TIS did was made me aware that the big sky theory is full of holes <g>, especially, around busy airspace.
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I've came to the same conclusion -- very obvious flying with Lance and his almost-tcas traffic system.

I never saw any that we would have hit had he not had the traffic system, but it does open your eyes to there being a lot more airplanes then you are generally aware of.
 
dmccormack said:
Exactly.

Mine is made of a few steel and aluminum stringers and ribs that might show up as a return on a radar.

:rolleyes:
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:D

Flying without a transponder does wonders for your eyesight... and your hearing (when it comes to stuff other than your N-number).:D
Flying with one, and using FF, is no excuse to not keep a good scan going.
FF is definitely an "extra"; nice to have but not essential, IMHO.
 
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