If the NDB ain't broke, don't nix it!

people can screw up any kind of approach. But there's a lot more room for creativity in screwing up a GPS approach than an NDB approach.
 
L.Adamson said:
Since so many NDB related accident's have occurred, over many years; perhaps we'll have to project expected GPS related accidents into the future. I'm a 100% confidant, that the GPS statistics won't come anywhere close, to those for the outdated NDB.
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Can you provide some examples of "NDB related accidents"?
 
people can screw up any kind of approach. But there's a lot more room for creativity in screwing up a GPS approach than an NDB approach.
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If there is a way it can be screwed up, I'll find it :).
 
roncachamp said:
Can you provide some examples of "NDB related accidents"?
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The one that comes to mind was the USAF 737 in croatia in the 90s that killed the secretary of commerce. But there were a number of factors at work, the nav-aid(s) only one of them.
 
weilke said:
The one that comes to mind was the USAF 737 in croatia in the 90s that killed the secretary of commerce. But there were a number of factors at work, the nav-aid(s) only one of them.
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Bad example, the aircraft was not properly equipped for the approach. The approach required two ADF's. It was not legal to fly the approach with only one ADF onboard the aircraft.
 
Bob Noel said:
Bad example, the aircraft was not properly equipped for the approach. The approach required two ADF's. It was not legal to fly the approach with only one ADF onboard the aircraft.
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Yeah, that was a kind of approach not exactly common in the US, a bit different from the types we have here.

Still, those folks are dead.
 
Our airport and our NDB is owned by the city. We will keep the NDB going as long as it doesn't get too expensive. I think that it has been years since it was last used for an actual NDB approach but it is used for a practice approach now and then, usually by the military (Blackhawks and C-130s). It is pretty neat to watch a C-130 make a low pass following an approach.
 
weilke said:
Yeah, that was a kind of approach not exactly common in the US, a bit different from the types we have here.

Still, those folks are dead.
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Yet it's child's play with 2 adf's. just keep the needles on top of each other, it's probably the easiest approach you'll ever fly.
 
I probably don't know what I am talking about since I am a VFR only pilot but I do know that I never have enough useful load even in my Comanche. So I would pull any and all old radios out of my plane accept a primary and secondary navigation radio and a primary and secondary comm radio. Everything else goes. And ideal situation would be a HSI, G480w, Kx155 and autopilot.

So if I have a VOR/ILS and a GPS, I see no reason to keep the heavy old NDB, RNav or even clunky old VOR's.

There might be use for some of these things but I don't carry around my 155 lbs tool box with me flying either.
 
Tony_Scarpelli said:
I probably don't know what I am talking about since I am a VFR only pilot but I do know that I never have enough useful load even in my Comanche. So I would pull any and all old radios out of my plane accept a primary and secondary navigation radio and a primary and secondary comm radio. Everything else goes. And ideal situation would be a HSI, G480w, Kx155 and autopilot.

So if I have a VOR/ILS and a GPS, I see no reason to keep the heavy old NDB, RNav or even clunky old VOR's.

There might be use for some of these things but I don't carry around my 155 lbs tool box with me flying either.
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I'm an IFR pilot and I pulled a working ADF receiver from my panel several years ago to make room for a MFD and haven't regretted it yet. Perhaps if I were flying internationally where ADF approaches are more common I might wish I still had it in the plane but the FAA implemented a GPS approach to every airport I know of that used to be served only with NDB. I did keep a 2nd VOR/LOC/GS navcom along with a DME, both solely as backup for the day when something shuts the entire GPS down but rarely use the DME and haven't tracked a VOR for years.
 
A good friend was head of military sales at BK at the time. The government's answer to the accident was to equip the fleet with hand-held "brick" GPS-Comm's" that were becoming popular at the time. The primary problem was that the planes weren't equipped with power outlets in the cockpits and the agency didn't want to spend the money necessary to install them.

They bought the BK-99's (or some number close) and we spent numerous nights trying to figure out a way get the contract for replacement batteries.

weilke said:
Yeah, that was a kind of approach not exactly common in the US, a bit different from the types we have here.

Still, those folks are dead.
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wabower said:
A good friend was head of military sales at BK at the time. The government's answer to the accident was to equip the fleet with hand-held "brick" GPS-Comm's" that were becoming popular at the time.
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nit: Waaaaaaaaaay more things happened in response to that incident than just buying some handhelds.

btw - calling that an "accident" is just wrong.
 
Why does it cost so much to maintain an AM signal? All an ADF does is send out an omnidirectional radio signal on a fixed frequency.

You could get high school students to maintain such a simple device.

The reason why it costs so much is because it involved government employees - the technology is dirt simple and costs very little to build from scratch - you could build a low power NDB signal for your local grass strip for under $500 . . . of course the government approval and permit fees would be much higher . . .
 
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