Ice around hangar/ramp areas

cowman

cowman

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Cowman
Visited the airport yesterday.... FBO has my airplane in their hangar right now just out of annual. I stopped by my hangar first with the intent of clearing away any snow/ice in front to make it easier to put the airplane away after my flight.

What I found was a perfect covering of smooth glare ice on the entire area around the hangar. Realizing I wasn't getting rid of this with a snow shovel I went over to the FBO.... the ramp looks about the same. Yikes.

There was still at least one 172 in the pattern though so I'm assuming the runway/taxiways were clear enough, but not having any idea how I'd get my airplane put away in these conditions and this being a "just because" flight I just looked at the airplane longingly and went home.

But, I have an actual lesson scheduled on Tues and the weather forecast makes it unlikely any of this will melt off before then. I have to solo from my home airport to another nearby to meet the instructor.

I've thought about it and I have a couple of ideas for strategies to get it put away but I'm a bit nervous about taxing to the hangar on that ice.... I have visions of me standing on the brakes trying to get the engine shut down as the airplane continues towards the opposite hangar. :yikes:

Any experienced northerners have any thoughts?

Btw my current best strategy for getting it put away:
Attach a rope to the tail tie-down loop and have someone standing on the ice-free hangar floor pull while a 2nd person steers with the tow-bar. I've been told a story about using a winch installed in the hangar to do this as well, so that might be something to try if I can figure out something sturdy to anchor it to.
 
Have you tried ice melt to get a clear area for pushing the airplane into the hangar?

Taxi at a less than walking pace. The airplane will brake and steer pretty well under those conditions. When you are close enough to push it it, stomp down hard with your heels to break the ice and get a better purchase.

I've used winches to get airplanes into hangars. A good winch with a remote works well. Unfortunately, most winches are lousy.

The good news is that airplanes roll easily on glare ice, so pushing back by hand is not too hard.
 
Plumbers torch for the ice,hand winch from a marine store both work.
 
Might not want to use the tail tie down loop for pulling.

Maybe tie down low on to each of the mains (if possible). Then rig a single rope or strap connecting them to haul with.
 
Ice melt isn't allowed at the airport, causes corrosion.

I do have a weed burner, that's a thought. I'll have to check and see if anyone has an issue there. We are talking about a pretty big area of quite solid ice in single digit temps though. I'll do a test run on the walkway by my house
 
I've seen the torches being used, but didn't stick around to see if they actually vaporized the moisture or what happened to the melted water.
 
LDJones said:
I've seen the torches being used, but didn't stick around to see if they actually vaporized the moisture or what happened to the melted water.
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It melts and re-freezes perfectly glass smooth. Ha.

Get a bag of sand.
 
Ice already froze glass smooth so it can't get any worse!

I did my sidewalk experiment. Cleared off the brick, water ran downhill. There's a slight downhill grade by the hangar... there is a drain assuming the water makes it before re-freezing and the drain isn't frozen and blocked which is asking a lot.

Also it took a few minutes of intense blasting of heat and fire to clear a < 2' diameter circle. To clear the space I need to push the airplane in would probably take an hour or more, and that's just make myself a narrow little walkway so I can get foot traction to push.
 
cowman said:
Ice already froze glass smooth so it can't get any worse!

I did my sidewalk experiment. Cleared off the brick, water ran downhill. There's a slight downhill grade by the hangar... there is a drain assuming the water makes it before re-freezing and the drain isn't frozen and blocked which is asking a lot.

Also it took a few minutes of intense blasting of heat and fire to clear a < 2' diameter circle. To clear the space I need to push the airplane in would probably take an hour or more, and that's just make myself a narrow little walkway so I can get foot traction to push.
Click to expand...

The other alternative is what I did the first time I faced this problem with my Mooney....I ordered the PowerTow tug with the chain option for the wheel. Worked well.
 
denverpilot said:
It melts and re-freezes perfectly glass smooth. Ha.

Get a bag of sand.
Click to expand...

It's not the easiest thing to use to melt stuff. I have one and tried using it on my driveway once and decided it wasn't worth the effort.
 
can you get out there at 1p? Is your hangar ramp on the south side?

When I got my hangar in Connecticut at the time I had a choice of SSE facing or NNW - everyone told me to take the NNW facing door because during flying season its a lot cooler - but - once you got past 330 the angle of the building cut the sun off and it was never that hot - but in winter - the low sun angle shined on the door and taxiway all day and melted ice even on 20F days - plus the snow was much easier to shovel when the blacktop underneath had warmed up a little . ..
 
Howard Wilson said:
Might not want to use the tail tie down loop for pulling.
Click to expand...

He didn't say what he's flying but, for argument's sake, let's say it has a 2600# GW.

If that's the case then I'd speculate the tail tie down is designed to hold at least 1/3 of that...or about 900#.

I don't think you'll hurt the plane tugging it by the tail ring...as long as you don't hit anything.
 
timwinters said:
He didn't say what he's flying but, for argument's sake, let's say it has a 2600# GW.

If that's the case then I'd speculate the tail tie down is designed to hold at least 1/3 of that...or about 900#.

I don't think you'll hurt the plane tugging it by the tail ring...as long as you don't hit anything.
Click to expand...

Yup, you are probably right Tim. Wasn't sure of the ramp angle, gross weight, or where the empty CG would be. :) h
 
timwinters said:
He didn't say what he's flying but, for argument's sake, let's say it has a 2600# GW.

If that's the case then I'd speculate the tail tie down is designed to hold at least 1/3 of that...or about 900#.

I don't think you'll hurt the plane tugging it by the tail ring...as long as you don't hit anything.
Click to expand...

You're close, aircraft is a pa-28-181 2550# GW.

There's an uphill grade but it's pretty slight and we're talking about the strength of an average person pulling on it. Actual weight will be 1835# or less depending on how much fuel is still in the tanks.

My pushing issue is just lack of traction, I think if I tried I'd probably end up going down... probably whacking my head on the prop before smashing nose first into the ice.


This is a north facing hangar, there's a waiting list for south-facing at this airport.
 
cowman said:
You're close, aircraft is a pa-28-181 2550# GW.

There's an uphill grade but it's pretty slight and we're talking about the strength of an average person pulling on it. Actual weight will be 1835# or less depending on how much fuel is still in the tanks.

My pushing issue is just lack of traction, I think if I tried I'd probably end up going down... probably whacking my head on the prop before smashing nose first into the ice.


This is a north facing hangar, there's a waiting list for south-facing at this airport.
Click to expand...

Sand is the answer you seek...
 
cowman said:
You're close, aircraft is a pa-28-181 2550# GW.

There's an uphill grade but it's pretty slight and we're talking about the strength of an average person pulling on it. Actual weight will be 1835# or less depending on how much fuel is still in the tanks.

My pushing issue is just lack of traction, I think if I tried I'd probably end up going down... probably whacking my head on the prop before smashing nose first into the ice.


This is a north facing hangar, there's a waiting list for south-facing at this airport.
Click to expand...

We flew for decades in WI and IA, and faced this problem many times.

Rather than trying to increase your traction by spreading sand, or melting ice, I recommend changing your footwear. I had a pair of removable cleats that I could attach to my shoes, which gave me enough traction to push the plane into the hangar.

As for taxiing and landing on ice, slow and easy does it. :)
 
Yak Tracs. They are rubber mesh with what looks like springs on the undersides that slip over your boots. They're awesome. Ice? Bring it!


Jeff Orear
RV6A N782P
Peshtigo, WI
 
cowman said:
Visited the airport yesterday.... FBO has my airplane in their hangar right now just out of annual. I stopped by my hangar first with the intent of clearing away any snow/ice in front to make it easier to put the airplane away after my flight.

What I found was a perfect covering of smooth glare ice on the entire area around the hangar. Realizing I wasn't getting rid of this with a snow shovel I went over to the FBO.... the ramp looks about the same. Yikes.

There was still at least one 172 in the pattern though so I'm assuming the runway/taxiways were clear enough, but not having any idea how I'd get my airplane put away in these conditions and this being a "just because" flight I just looked at the airplane longingly and went home.

But, I have an actual lesson scheduled on Tues and the weather forecast makes it unlikely any of this will melt off before then. I have to solo from my home airport to another nearby to meet the instructor.

I've thought about it and I have a couple of ideas for strategies to get it put away but I'm a bit nervous about taxing to the hangar on that ice.... I have visions of me standing on the brakes trying to get the engine shut down as the airplane continues towards the opposite hangar. :yikes:

Any experienced northerners have any thoughts?

Btw my current best strategy for getting it put away:
Attach a rope to the tail tie-down loop and have someone standing on the ice-free hangar floor pull while a 2nd person steers with the tow-bar. I've been told a story about using a winch installed in the hangar to do this as well, so that might be something to try if I can figure out something sturdy to anchor it to.
Click to expand...


Turn the mags off. ;)

The tow rope plan works great.

No need for sand. Gets sucked into the prop and tracked into the plane, FBO, and your car. :nono:
 
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I live in Upper Michigan where the winters are tough. I don't get to fly very much from November through March. I have an old Toro snowthrower, ice pick, snow shovel and a propane weed burning torch to help get the snow and ice cleared in front of my T hangar .

I use stabilicers and they work pretty well. I can push my DA40 slightly uphill on a thin sheet of ice most of the time. Rarely I have to ask for help from the guys at FBO to help me push it back into the hangar. http://www.amazon.com/Stabilicers-Original-Heavy-Traction-Cleat/dp/B0011W6OOM/ref=sr_1_2?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1386547565&sr=1-2
 
painless said:
Yak Tracs. They are rubber mesh with what looks like springs on the undersides that slip over your boots. They're awesome. Ice? Bring it!
Click to expand...

+1

They kept me from cracking my head open when our entire ramp went through a thaw/freeze, then freezing rain last winter. It was a skating rink for weeks.
 
Sodium Acetate is usually approved for airports, not cheap though
Ice fishing cleats for your shoes
Don't pull on the tail ring, it's meant for vertical forces, not horizontal rearward forces.
EZ Tow with chains on the tire
Friends
 
flyingron said:
It's not the easiest thing to use to melt stuff. I have one and tried using it on my driveway once and decided it wasn't worth the effort.
Click to expand...

I used to get an ice dam in the gutter in front of the old house where a 30' pine tree always shaded the street. A couple of bad years I would take the propane weed burner thing and just lay it in the gutter pointed at the blockage and go inside and watch football. It took hours of unattended burning and half of a 20lb tank to melt it away on a nice sunny but below freezing day.

I'd check on it every once in a while and use a pry bar to shatter the ice since the heat would undercut the iceberg enough to get a bar under there. Then toss the ice out past the end of the tree's shadow in the street. It only worked at all because there was a good slope there. Burner uphill. Water flowing cut under the 'berg.

Over the years I learned that immediate shoveling and continuous shoveling of the gutter there was mandatory in that house and that anything left over should be covered in considerable amounts of ice melt. As soon as a warm day came along, go beat ice and break it up and throw it out where the sun could get at it. Sidewalk shoveling upstream of the tree shadow had to be pushed all the way out past the crown of the street or it would create the 'berg the next day.

Even later I learned another trick. Park a vehicle covering the shadow location. Nothing accumulated underneath it and you could brush it off just enough to get in it and drive backward a few feet and dump the snow in the street from it. Then re-park it at the curb after applying ice melt along the gutter.

The propane torch was a last resort.

I learned to hate " the iceberg" at that house. Really hate it. I liked the big spruce tree enough that I didn't want to cut it down though. I haven't driven by lately to see if the new owners have already cut the tree down. Heh.

Never buy a north-facing house in snow country. Ever. You've all been warned. Heh. Man was that dumb. I'd stand there shoveling and breaking ice in the shadow of the house while the entire sidewalk on the north side of the street was clear end to end. Never again.
 
I have an electric winch that pulls not on the tie-down ring, but on the tow-bar. It's a one-person operation - one hand on the tow-bar to steer, the other hand holding the winch's remote switch to turn it on and off.

Works great for getting the plane into the hangar when there's ice.
 
Jim Burns said:
Don't pull on the tail ring, it's meant for vertical forces, not horizontal rearward forces.
Click to expand...
Not sure I buy this, for more or less the same reasons Tim Winters outlined above.

The spacing of tie-down anchors often result in the tail tie-down rope/strap/chain having a significant angle. At least one model of PA28 (which is what Cowman is flying) has a recommendation of a 45-degree angle for the tail tie-down in the POH. This means a significant portion of the tie-down force is horizontal rearward.

Are towing forces on a slight incline higher than potential tie-down forces?
 
Let's put it this way, if you damage the plane by pulling it into the hangar by the tail ring, feel fortunate because you had problems that could have killed you had they manifested in flight.
 
I got myself a set of these and tried them out in front of the house, feeling pretty confident so plan A is to push in as normal.

I'll hold the rope & tiedown option in reserve as plan B.
 
Obviously it depends on the aircraft on the tie down ring, but Cessna made a factory tow hook for gliders for the 182. That structure is stronger than most folks think back there.

Your mileage may vary. Factory to dealer incentives void all other offers. Offer is based on excellent credit. ;)
 
denverpilot said:
Obviously it depends on the aircraft on the tie down ring, but Cessna made a factory tow hook for gliders for the 182. That structure is stronger than most folks think back there.

Your mileage may vary. Factory to dealer incentives void all other offers. Offer is based on excellent credit. ;)
Click to expand...

If I recall correctly, there was some additional structural reinforcement that went along with that tow hook. h
 
Howard Wilson said:
If I recall correctly, there was some additional structural reinforcement that went along with that tow hook. h
Click to expand...


I'd have to go dig out the service manual. It can be easily added though, I do know that. Not something that big a deal to do.
 
denverpilot said:
I'd have to go dig out the service manual. It can be easily added though, I do know that. Not something that big a deal to do.
Click to expand...

The tail tie down ring is attached by 1 anchor nut thru the rear fuselage skin and bulkhead at the rivet row.
 
If a tiedown ring is not strong enough to move the airplane across a nearly flat surface, it's not going to be strong enough to use for tying down an airplane outside in the wind.
 
Tom-D said:
The tail tie down ring is attached by 1 anchor nut thru the rear fuselage skin and bulkhead at the rivet row.
Click to expand...


Where's the tow hook mounted ? (I'm away from home. Never looked at the drawings.)
 
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