"I was taught..."

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TazzyTazzy

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Spinning off from another thread...

What was something you were originally taught by your first/only CFI that you later learned or was taught by another pilot/CFI a better method or procedure.
 
My CFI told me to "Stall the Cessna 172 one wing length over the runway". He wanted me to " plant" the plane firmly on the runway. He was tired of me greasing the landings I guess. :lol: :rolleyes:
 
I was taught by my first CFI that when you're driving home from the bar toasted that putting the IFR hood on makes it easier to concentrate on the lines on the road. My later instructors dispelled me of that belief.
 
My first instructor taught me not to taxi any faster than a cow can run.
 
flyingron said:
I was taught by my first CFI that when you're driving home from the bar toasted that putting the IFR hood on makes it easier to concentrate on the lines on the road. My later instructors dispelled me of that belief.
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I'm nominating this for Best Post of the Year.
 
:-) I'm nominating THIS for best post of the year:

"Don't try to understand women. Women understand women and they hate each other."

My first instructor told me that once the airplane was started not to screw with the mixture til you shut it down. That's been awhile ago, now.

Jim

 
flyingron said:
I was taught by my first CFI that when you're driving home from the bar toasted that putting the IFR hood on makes it easier to concentrate on the lines on the road. My later instructors dispelled me of that belief.
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you're an idiot. You can't drive with a hood unless you have a safety pilot with a current medical.
 
JB1842 said:
I'm nominating this for Best Post of the Year.
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So early in the year though.

My first instructor was on point. I can't recall anything he taught me where another CFI had a better method. Now in the military, you fly with a different instructor everyday. They all have their own way of doing things and think that way is the best. You just learn to do whatever works for you.

I do remember learning short field take-offs over a 50 foot obstacle in a C-172RG. My first instructor told me to get the gear up as soon as you run out of usable runway to start getting the airplane clean. My instructor for my commercial(still a C-172RG) told me to leave the gear down until after the obstacle is cleared because the way the gear swings down and back, the tires expose more surface into the wind and actually create more drag for that brief time they are in the slipstream...I still stand by my first instructor.
 
I'm serious. My primary CFI and drinking buddy used to do this. I always figured if we got pulled over it was the end for the both of us.
 
jordane93 said:
You don't lead with rudder
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I do. In fact, if I am making only small corrections, all I will do is place a foot on a rudder and eventually the plane comes smoothly around. If I am nose high on the back side of the power curve near stall, rudder becomes primary and aileron may actually go opposite to keep wings level.
 
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Gucci Pilot said:
I still stand by my first instructor.
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Your second instructor is right and your first one is teaching contrary to the 172RG POH, and you're an example of "I was taught..."

The wheels, while retracting, go perpendicular to the airstream for a bit.

Excerpt from a 1980 172RG POH:

[SIZE=+2]SHORT FIELD TAKEOFF[/SIZE]
1. Wing Flaps -- 0deg.
2. Carburetor Heat -- COLD.
3. Brakes -- APPLY.
4. Power -- FULL THROTTLE and 2700 RPM.
5. Brakes -- RELEASE.
6. Elevator Control -- MAINTAIN SLIGHTLY TAIL-LOW ATTITUDE.
7. Climb Speed -- 63 KIAS until all obstacles are cleared.
8. Landing Gear -- RETRACT after obstacles are cleared.
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--Carlos V.

 
Yep, you have to pay attention to the details of the plane you are in. There are no hard and fast procedural rules of thumb that aren't contradicted in the POH/AFM of some type out there. Learn the plane you are flying.
 
You don't lead with rudder
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Tarheelpilot said:
depends on the airplane.
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No it doesn't. I've never flown an airplane in which the rudder was unable to be moved simultaneously with the ailerons. The rudder has just as an immediate ability to cancel adverse yaw as the ailerons have the ability to produce it. Actually leading with the rudder causes a small momentary skid. No need for that in any airplane.
 
Use the throttle for power/speed and the yoke for altitude/attitude.
 
Bill Jennings said:
My first instructor taught me not to taxi any faster than a cow can run.
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I was taught in ground school (before taking my second lesson) never to taxi faster than I can walk. Well, I suppose that's one way for the school to rake in the Hobbs money when there's a 6500' runway and you require taxi-backs.

My instructor was smart enough to tell me I could go just a bit faster.
 
Henning said:
I do. In fact, if I am making only small corrections, all I will do is place a foot on a rudder and eventually the plane comes smoothly around. If I am nose high on the back side of the power curve near stall, rudder becomes primary and aileron may actually go opposite to keep wings level.
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That's a lazy turn though. Even if you are making turn 5 degrees to the right or left you should be using aileron and not only rudder. I've been taught this way:wink2:
 
jordane93 said:
That's a lazy turn though. Even if you are making turn 5 degrees to the right or left you should be using aileron and not only rudder. I've been taught this way:wink2:
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It is a lazy turn, often that's all you want. If you don't try to make the aircraft react quickly, you can make a well coordinated turn using only the rudder or aileron. If I apply pressure to the rudder, I will lift the wing in response. If I am only making small changes to the inertia, I will not create noticeable adverse yaw, you won't even see it on the ball. Even going into a hard turn though, I will be stepping before I am turning. The yoke is only a fraction of a second behind the pedal, and it causes a slight skidding moment that makes non pilots more comfortable in a turn (every turn in a car is a skidding turn), and it makes the plane roll a little crisper.
 
Unbeliever said:
Your second instructor is right and your first one is teaching contrary to the 172RG POH, and you're an example of "I was taught..."

The wheels, while retracting, go perpendicular to the airstream for a bit.

Excerpt from a 1980 172RG POH:



--Carlos V.
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THe POH does not always give the best info. It's a good starting point, but it's not the end all be all. There are techniques depending on the aircraft that you will get better results by experimenting yourself, and you'll find out that the POH was written by lawyers.
 
RoscoeT said:
No it doesn't. I've never flown an airplane in which the rudder was unable to be moved simultaneously with the ailerons. The rudder has just as an immediate ability to cancel adverse yaw as the ailerons have the ability to produce it. Actually leading with the rudder causes a small momentary skid. No need for that in any airplane.
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Not trying to win the internet here but the aircraft I fly for work requires a slight lead with the rudder to stay coordinated when you use aggressive aileron inputs. For normal maneuvering it is not required.
 
I don't care for the whole concept of "leading with the rudder".

Never done it, never plan to.

I think the problem could be that in a panic situation needing a very sudden turn, the reflex might be to stomp the rudder first.

No need to go into why that would be an obviously bad idea.
 
FastEddieB said:
I don't care for the whole concept of "leading with the rudder".

Never done it, never plan to.

I think the problem could be that in a panic situation needing a very sudden turn, the reflex might be to stomp the rudder first.

No need to go into why that would be an obviously bad idea.
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It prevents 'wagging'.
 
Gucci Pilot said:
So early in the year though.

My first instructor was on point. I can't recall anything he taught me where another CFI had a better method. Now in the military, you fly with a different instructor everyday. They all have their own way of doing things and think that way is the best. You just learn to do whatever works for you.

I do remember learning short field take-offs over a 50 foot obstacle in a C-172RG. My first instructor told me to get the gear up as soon as you run out of usable runway to start getting the airplane clean. My instructor for my commercial(still a C-172RG) told me to leave the gear down until after the obstacle is cleared because the way the gear swings down and back, the tires expose more surface into the wind and actually create more drag for that brief time they are in the slipstream...I still stand by my first instructor.
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In a Cessna without gear doors, I'd go with your first instructor. If you've ever flown a 337 with the large gear doors, you wait.
Unbeliever said:
Your second instructor is right and your first one is teaching contrary to the 172RG POH, and you're an example of "I was taught..."

The wheels, while retracting, go perpendicular to the airstream for a bit.

Excerpt from a 1980 172RG POH:



--Carlos V.
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Hardly enough to make a difference. POH's in the 60's and thereabouts were written by someone else other than pilots/engineers.
 
My first instructor said there was one big rule, "Don't break the airplane." Now I know if I do it's just going to jack up our insurance rates. Haha. The better rule is, "Don't break the people in the airplane." ;)
 
denverpilot said:
My first instructor said there was one big rule, "Don't break the airplane." Now I know if I do it's just going to jack up our insurance rates. Haha. The better rule is, "Don't break the people in the airplane." ;)
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That's good original advice. Airplanes typically break before people, so if you can avoid breaking the airplane, you are likely to avoid breaking the people inside.
 
Fearless Tower said:
That's good original advice. Airplanes typically break before people, so if you can avoid breaking the airplane, you are likely to avoid breaking the people inside.
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True, but it is important not to fixate on that, because it has killed more than one person trying to save the plane when they could have survived had they sacrificed the plane.
 
FastEddieB said:
I don't care for the whole concept of "leading with the rudder".

Never done it, never plan to.

I think the problem could be that in a panic situation needing a very sudden turn, the reflex might be to stomp the rudder first.

No need to go into why that would be an obviously bad idea.
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:rolleyes2: Really? Just because a particular aircraft likes a subtle rudder lead to stay coordinated while being aggressively rolled I'm all of a sudden going to forget about the stick in my right hand when I need to aggressively roll the aircraft???

Edit to add this.

This reminds me of the midfield crosswind debate. I don't understand why pilots try to apply one size fits all answers to aviation. Aircraft and the way they are used is very diverse. Sometimes there is more than one correct answer. Most of the aircraft I have flown don't require leading the rudder. A few , in certain points in the flight envelope, do require it. Why is that hard to accept?
 
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Tarheelpilot said:
Most of the aircraft I have flown don't require leading the rudder. A few , in certain points in the flight envelope, do require it. Why is that hard to accept?
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Maybe I've led a sheltered aviation life.

I don't ever recall even hearing of this concept before.

And I'm not clear on the concept.

The rudder is typically thought to be there to correct for adverse yaw from the ailerons. Leading with the rudder means an initial skid into the turn, as pointed out by someone else. Rudder without aileron, even briefly, pretty much has to result in a skid - too much rate of turn for the angle of bank - at least initially.

I'll stipulate there may be some unusual combination of dihedral and sweep and who knows what else to make applying rudder before aileron necessary to coordinate a turn. Though I've flown numerous airplane types in my career, all have been fairly conventional in nature.

Is there a particular aircraft type or configuration where leading with rudder is accepted as common practice?
 
I'm wondering if some are confusing the need for large amounts of rudder to counter significant adverse yaw with a perceived need to lead with rudder?
 
FastEddieB said:
Maybe I've led a sheltered aviation life.

I don't ever recall even hearing of this concept before.

And I'm not clear on the concept.

The rudder is typically thought to be there to correct for adverse yaw from the ailerons. Leading with the rudder means an initial skid into the turn, as pointed out by someone else. Rudder without aileron, even briefly, pretty much has to result in a skid - too much rate of turn for the angle of bank - at least initially.

I'll stipulate there may be some unusual combination of dihedral and sweep and who knows what else to make applying rudder before aileron necessary to coordinate a turn. Though I've flown numerous airplane types in my career, all have been fairly conventional in nature.

Is there a particular aircraft type or configuration where leading with rudder is accepted as common practice?
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if you start with the aileron, or work both together, you will always start with a slight slip motion unles you apply the rudder quickly to overcome the adverse yaw moment, and that is less comfortable than easing into the rudder until you hit resistance then coming in with aileron. This leaves you starting with a slight skidding moment which people are quite used to. It's barely perceptible, but people are affected by it, especially in IMC.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
Not trying to win the internet here but the aircraft I fly for work requires a slight lead with the rudder to stay coordinated when you use aggressive aileron inputs. For normal maneuvering it is not required.
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Just curious - which type of plane, and why is this required? Is there slop or delay between the rudder pedal movement and rudder deflection? If not, I can't think of a reason consistent with the laws of physics that would require rudder deflection before the aileron movement in order to stay coordinated. Unless there's delay or slop, it seems simply an issue of proper speed and degree of rudder input in conjunction with the aileron input rather than truly needing rudder first. But your hands are typically quicker than your feet, so for some folks maybe "leading with the rudder" just keeps their feet from lagging behind. Generally speaking, I view 'lead with the rudder' suggestions as a bad technique to fix bad technique. Use only the exact amount of rudder required exactly when it's required.
 
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TazzyTazzy said:
Spinning off from another thread...

What was something you were originally taught by your first/only CFI that you later learned or was taught by another pilot/CFI a better method or procedure.
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Many CFI's teach power to idle over the numbers, but my TW instructor taught me to keep just a touch of power in there to keep the tail washed with air. :redface:
 
txflyer said:
Many CFI's teach power to idle over the numbers, but my TW instructor taught me to keep just a touch of power in there to keep the tail washed with air. :redface:
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When I was doing my insurance checkout in the 170 a few years ago, my CFI had me set about 1400 RPM and leave it there until the wheels touch. Actually works pretty well and in the 170, you really don't burn up any runway doing it that way.
 
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