I was denied my medical certificate

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blakeaf96

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blakeaf96
Okay, here's my story - Hoping someone here can help, or give me some insight or advise.

In 2013, I logged about 32 hours towards getting my private pilot's license. Everything was going great... Until my medical screening. I found a doctor that my instructor recommended and went to see him. I was honest in my application and put down that I was on Celexa (anti-depressant) - At that time, I was on that medication for 10 years. No side effects or anything. I've been stable that entire time. I was very young when the doctor gave me this anti-depressant, and I think that he prescribed it based on a 20 question questionnaire in his office. I've been on it ever since.

Anyways, at the end of the medical screening, he said everything was perfect except for the fact that I took an SSRI. He said I would have to go see a psychiatrist, etc and get their approval, re-submit it to the FFA, etc and see what they say. Well that discouraged me a lot, and money was an issue moving forward, so I put everything on the back burner.

My question is:

1) Since it has been 1 1/2 - 2 years since I originally got a medical exam, can I go see another doctor OR see the same doctor and get approved this time, or is the FAA still strict about SSRI's? It's not fair for the people who want to fly and have dreamed of flying their entire lives, but a stupid doctor put them on a medication that they didn't need going on 12 years now as I write this post. I didn't know if the FAA has recently done anything about SSRI usage when flying or what.

What are my options? I mean, I have spent over $5000 in lessons and I have the money to resume.. Just don't know what to do. I'm frustrated and discouraged all at the same time, but I WANT TO FLY!!! :(

Thanks for any help that ya'll can provide!!!
 
blakeaf96 said:
Okay, here's my story - Hoping someone here can help, or give me some insight or advise.

In 2013, I logged about 32 hours towards getting my private pilot's license. Everything was going great... Until my medical screening. I found a doctor that my instructor recommended and went to see him. I was honest in my application and put down that I was on Celexa (anti-depressant) - At that time, I was on that medication for 10 years. No side effects or anything. I've been stable that entire time. I was very young when the doctor gave me this anti-depressant, and I think that he prescribed it based on a 20 question questionnaire in his office. I've been on it ever since.

Anyways, at the end of the medical screening, he said everything was perfect except for the fact that I took an SSRI. He said I would have to go see a psychiatrist, etc and get their approval, re-submit it to the FFA, etc and see what they say. Well that discouraged me a lot, and money was an issue moving forward, so I put everything on the back burner.

My question is:

1) Since it has been 1 1/2 - 2 years since I originally got a medical exam, can I go see another doctor OR see the same doctor and get approved this time, or is the FAA still strict about SSRI's? It's not fair for the people who want to fly and have dreamed of flying their entire lives, but a stupid doctor put them on a medication that they didn't need going on 12 years now as I write this post. I didn't know if the FAA has recently done anything about SSRI usage when flying or what.

What are my options? I mean, I have spent over $5000 in lessons and I have the money to resume.. Just don't know what to do. I'm frustrated and discouraged all at the same time, but I WANT TO FLY!!! :(

Thanks for any help that ya'll can provide!!!
Click to expand...

If you didn't need the medication, why have you been taking it for the past 12 years? Even after being denied (or possibly deferred, which by now would be a denial anyway), apparently you're still taking it; so maybe you do need it. That's really the question you have to answer because your health comes first.

So... I suggest you address that first, then address flying. Maybe you still need the meds, maybe you don't, and maybe you never did. But you do need to answer those questions first.

As for FAA, yes, they are still "strict" and will require the tests. There also is a possibility that you can fly while still on a maintenance dosage of an SSRI, but there will be hoops to jump through. Dr. Bruce Chien is the primary author of that protocol and the one you should discuss this with.

Rich
 
A denial is a denial, and you likely cannot unring this bell.

However, the guy to get you the correct and straight answer, plus be worth hiring to manage your case, is Dr. Bruce Chien in Peoria. He is one of the 4 very senior AME's who wrote the standards that the FAA uses for the SSRI's. www.aeromedicaldoc.com Dr. Bruce also has an extensive resource list and can direct you to the closest folks to gather up the required documentation.

First, you're going to get a fussing at about going into the AME's office knowing that you had a disqualifying condition. Then you will get a significant sad sigh on how the AME you went to see didn't help you. But do remember through out all of this, Dr. Bruce is the one to help you and you need to be 100% open and honest with him, else, you will get dropped like a hot rock and your dream dies there.

If this bell can be un-rung, it will take some extensive psch evaluations. These evaluations MUST be done by the right doc who (a) the FAA knows and (b) has the HIMS (Human Intervention Motivation Study) designation. And this will be expensive and not covered by any insurance. I have seen by quotes Dr. Bruce on the level of $4000-$6000. And, as he has said, there still isn't any pure guarantee that you will be blessed with the medical.


Again, this starts with speaking to Dr. Bruce Chien, and piling up lots of cash into your medical war chest.

(PS. Dr. Chien is on vacation this week, so may not respond quickly. Last post over on the AOPA board, he revealed his enjoying himself at the bottom of the Grand Canyon).
 
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I'm still on it because I was too scared to come off of it. Let me ask this question. If I talk to my doctor, and come off of the medication.... How long do I have to be off of the medication before I can take the medical exam again? Does the FAA care that I have come off of it? If so, what period of time are they looking for when someone comes off of an SSRI before retaking the medical exam... Or CAN I even retake it?
 
And I sent Dr. Bruce Chien a message from his website just then!
 
blakeaf96 said:
I'm still on it because I was too scared to come off of it. Let me ask this question. If I talk to my doctor, and come off of the medication.... How long do I have to be off of the medication before I can take the medical exam again? Does the FAA care that I have come off of it? If so, what period of time are they looking for when someone comes off of an SSRI before retaking the medical exam... Or CAN I even retake it?
Click to expand...

IMPORTANT: No one on this forum is qualified to answer this question. All we can offer is speculation and repeat what we have read in other posts from AME's such as Dr. Bruce Chien.

To get the answer to your question, and get the correct one, seek out Dr. Bruce or another very senior difficult case AME who has a strong track record of helping other airmen with SSRI issues such as yours.

Anyone else is just going to toss you more live hand grenades when you've already blown bits of your self off.
 
blakeaf96 said:
Okay, here's my story - Hoping someone here can help, or give me some insight or advise.

In 2013, I logged about 32 hours towards getting my private pilot's license. Everything was going great... Until my medical screening. I found a doctor that my instructor recommended and went to see him. I was honest in my application and put down that I was on Celexa (anti-depressant) - At that time, I was on that medication for 10 years. No side effects or anything. I've been stable that entire time. I was very young when the doctor gave me this anti-depressant, and I think that he prescribed it based on a 20 question questionnaire in his office. I've been on it ever since.

Anyways, at the end of the medical screening, he said everything was perfect except for the fact that I took an SSRI. He said I would have to go see a psychiatrist, etc and get their approval, re-submit it to the FFA, etc and see what they say. Well that discouraged me a lot, and money was an issue moving forward, so I put everything on the back burner.

My question is:

1) Since it has been 1 1/2 - 2 years since I originally got a medical exam, can I go see another doctor OR see the same doctor and get approved this time, or is the FAA still strict about SSRI's? It's not fair for the people who want to fly and have dreamed of flying their entire lives, but a stupid doctor put them on a medication that they didn't need going on 12 years now as I write this post. I didn't know if the FAA has recently done anything about SSRI usage when flying or what.

What are my options? I mean, I have spent over $5000 in lessons and I have the money to resume.. Just don't know what to do. I'm frustrated and discouraged all at the same time, but I WANT TO FLY!!! :(

Thanks for any help that ya'll can provide!!!
Click to expand...

FAA has a thing about SSRIs. For better or worse, FAA considers that if you are on an SSRI, then there must be a reason. And that initial reason is normally one that they don't like. So, if you get off the SSRI, you still have to prove to the FAA that the original reason no longer exists or didn't exist in the first place. That's why there will probably be some follow-up psych exams. It's not just a simple matter of your doc saying "you can stop taking them now."

Once you start an FAA medical exam, it has only two outcomes - issued or denied. It can be "deferred", or put on hold for a little while to allow you some extra time to get additional paperwork or to let FAA docs take a second look. But a deferral is just a way for FAA to buy some extra time, and it's not going to be something that goes on for 1-2 years.
 
blakeaf96 said:
I'm still on it because I was too scared to come off of it. Let me ask this question. If I talk to my doctor, and come off of the medication.... How long do I have to be off of the medication before I can take the medical exam again?
Click to expand...

I don't know. Ask Dr. Bruce.

blakeaf96 said:
Does the FAA care that I have come off of it?
Click to expand...

Yes. They care about everything.

blakeaf96 said:
If so, what period of time are they looking for when someone comes off of an SSRI before retaking the medical exam...
Click to expand...

I don't know. Ask Dr. Bruce.

blakeaf96 said:
Or CAN I even retake it?
Click to expand...

I don't know. Ask Dr. Bruce. It probably depends on the underlying diagnosis and many other things. Bruce really is the best person to advise you on this. But as Mike said, be completely open and honest with him. If you are, and if he thinks you can be certified, he will move mountains to help you achieve your goal.

One thing you should know is that Sport Pilot is not an option for you at this time because you have been denied your most recent medical application. I know you didn't ask, but it bears mentioning just so you don't waste any money on that route.

Rich
 
This story is all too common. My perception is that a large and growing of fraction of younger people were on some DQing rx as teenagers.

While students share the responsibility, it seems that CFIs are doing a disservice by letting students get partway through their training, waltz into the medical, and shoot themselves in the foot.

That was my experience, but I got lucky. Had I known then what I know now, I probably would have just gone SP and not ever bothered with the hassle.
 
Re: Contacting Dr. Chien:

  1. Emails through his web site often get caught in his spam filter, and he doesn't often have time to weed through the slush pile there. Recommend following up with a phone call to his office.
  2. You can usually get in contact with him faster via the AOPA Forums, which he visits on an almost daily basis.
Beyond that, what they said above -- don't put much reliance on anything you get on this subject from someone who isn't an aeromedical specialist like Bruce. And when you do get in touch with him, be completely honest and forthright -- don't play "I've Got a Secret" with him or he'll drop you like a hot rock and never talk to you again.
 
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Unregistered said:
While students share the responsibility, it seems that CFIs are doing a disservice by letting students get partway through their training, waltz into the medical, and shoot themselves in the foot.
Click to expand...

This has been a pet peeve of mine. I've heard CFIs say, "It's just a class III, as long as you can fog a mirror you'll pass."

CFIs shouldn't have to screen their students for medical history, but a simple explanation of what some of the big gotchas are can save a lot of grief.
 
I was on anti-depressants... All I needed to do was come of them for 90 days and have my doctor verify that fact and that there were no adverse affects.. I was ultimately approved... and now I don't have to even mention it on subsequent exams...
 
Ron Levy said:
Re: Contacting Dr. Chien:

  1. Emails through his web site often get caught in his spam filter, and he doesn't often have time to weed through the slush pile there. Recommend following up with a phone call to his office.
  2. You can usually get in contact with him faster via the AOPA Forums, which he visits on an almost daily basis.
Beyond that, what they said above -- don't put much reliance on anything you get on this subject from someone who isn't an aeromedical specialist like Bruce. And when you do get in touch with him, be completely honest and forthright -- don't play "I've Got a Secret" with him or he'll drop you like a hot rock and never talk to you again.
Click to expand...

All of this!!! Also, Bruce is on vacation right now. May be a few to several days before he gets to answering messages.

OP, I will echo what has been said, Dr. Chein is the authority on this subject, not AN authority, but THE authority. And as has also been said, do not withhold anything from him, he knows all the subterfuge and will drop you like a hot potato. If you can fly ever, he can get it done. And lastly as has been said, this will more than likely be costly to get done, so be prepared. I wish you all the luck and if you are healthy and capable enough to fly, I hope you can!!
 
In the spirit of Lt. Columbo... "Just one more thing..."

Titrating off an SSRI (or any psychoactive drug) is a delicate thing. If your doctor agrees that you should give it a try, don't let your eagerness to fly affect that process. Your health is more important.

Rich
 
I really feel for you and understand how doctors push these types of drugs. Three years ago I go and see a new doctor. He looks over my charts and says he is putting me on anti-depressants. I told him I do not need them for I am not depressed. He looks at me and says anyone with my medical problems is depressed. I tried to explain that life was not all that bad even though I do have all these problems. This was before they found all these other problems I have.

So he talks me into taking these meds. After about 6 months or so I throw them all in the trash. I went back and saw this doctor again and told him I do not need these meds. Still today if you look at my medical records it says I am depressed. I just saw this on my medical records a week ago.

My new doctor asked me if I am depressed and I told her no I am not. I love life and look forward to tomorrow no matter what it brings.

I am so happy I have no plans on ever getting a PPL. This doctor screwed me by saying I needed these. I should have never taken the script and should have changed doctors from day one. But I was happy any doctor was helping me. He really was no help. Today he is retired.

Tony
 
FlySince9 said:
I was on anti-depressants... All I needed to do was come of them for 90 days and have my doctor verify that fact and that there were no adverse affects.. I was ultimately approved... and now I don't have to even mention it on subsequent exams...
Click to expand...

This works if you do it right the first time, the OP has a denial, different game.
 
Thanks for all of the responses. It just sucks! I'm as stable as they come. I went into his office 12 years ago, complained that I was feeling guilty when I had nothing to be guilty about, etc. Then he gave me that questionnaire, prescribed the SSRI and it has been that way ever since. It makes me very upset, especially since getting my PPL is something I've wanted to do as a kid.... AND my CFI didn't mention anything. He wanted me to pay for 32 hours of training that MAY be for nothing.
 
1600vw said:
I really feel for you and understand how doctors push these types of drugs. Three years ago I go and see a new doctor. He looks over my charts and says he is putting me on anti-depressants. I told him I do not need them for I am not depressed. He looks at me and says anyone with my medical problems is depressed. I tried to explain that life was not all that bad even though I do have all these problems. This was before they found all these other problems I have.

So he talks me into taking these meds. After about 6 months or so I throw them all in the trash. I went back and saw this doctor again and told him I do not need these meds. Still today if you look at my medical records it says I am depressed. I just saw this on my medical records a week ago.

My new doctor asked me if I am depressed and I told her no I am not. I love life and look forward to tomorrow no matter what it brings.

I am so happy I have no plans on ever getting a PPL. This doctor screwed me by saying I needed these. I should have never taken the script and should have changed doctors from day one. But I was happy any doctor was helping me. He really was no help. Today he is retired.

Tony
Click to expand...

My point with this story. I could still today be on these meds if it was not for me saying enough already, and if I was not the type of person to tell a doctor no, my new doctor would have me on these again.

I need these like I need a hole in the head. But the doctors love to push them. I do understand they just want me or us to have a better life, but sometimes we should be a little depressed. Not every day should be all roses.

Tony
 
Correct - People go through crappy situations that get them down, etc. But yeah, doctors hand them out like candy not realizing what it could do to someone's future (me and others).
 
Matthew said:
This has been a pet peeve of mine. I've heard CFIs say, "It's just a class III, as long as you can fog a mirror you'll pass."

CFIs shouldn't have to screen their students for medical history, but a simple explanation of what some of the big gotchas are can save a lot of grief.
Click to expand...
Something as easy as sending them off to AOPA (free 6 month trial) and having them run through turbo medical would save a lot of grief for a lot of students.

But, apparently, it's easier to just throw the students under the bus.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Something as easy as sending them off to AOPA (free 6 month trial) and having them run through turbo medical would save a lot of grief for a lot of students.

But, apparently, it's easier to just throw the students under the bus.
Click to expand...

Yeah.

For anybody not familiar: AOPA, with its free student membership, used to have something called TurboMedical. It might still be on their website, I don't know.

It was the same FAA medical form, but wasn't binding. You fill it out online, and at each question, it would guide you through. It would also flag anything that might be a problem so you could review it.

It was (and might still be) a very good tool.
 
blakeaf96 said:
...doctors hand them out like candy not realizing what it could do to someone's future (me and others).
Click to expand...

Doctor treats the issue as presented to him at hand. It is NOT his responsibility to determine if the treatment action will affect your future. That's your responsibility.

btw; be aware that pressing your "poor me" situation off on your doctor is one of the fast lanes to the "hot rock" scenario we've advised you about.


(edit: Forgot a "not" in my second sentence. Added it)
 
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Too bad the riffraff ran Dr. Chien off this forum, and a black eye to the forum administrators.

He was a great resource.
 
What are you referring to, or mean, when you say putting me in a hot rock scenario?
 
Don't be afraid to call your Regional Flight Surgeon office. Talk to a program analyst. They'll explain the rules and regs to you. The RFS staff folks that I've talked to have been pleasant and helpful every time I've called or emailed. The same is true for the Aeromedical Dept folks I've talked to in OKC. AOPA aeromedical is also helpful with answering questions if you're a member of the PPS program.
 
blakeaf96 said:
What are you referring to, or mean, when you say putting me in a hot rock scenario?
Click to expand...

It means Doc will drop you like he would a hot rock if you show any signs of lying, concealing, blaming others, or otherwise not taking responsibility. So get your venting about all that out of your system, this way you can take full responsibility when you talk to the doc.

Rich
 
As Rich says, your statement in Post 20 had the tint of "not my fault, the doctor 12 years ago was the one who effed me over". Add this to an AME informing you of the SSRI issue in 2013 yet you STILL take the meds. I see this (and Doc Bruce could too) of "poor little ol me, someone other than me is to blame, I'm not taking responsibility" syndrome.

For Doc Bruce to work with you, you need to be willing to swallow pride, seek appropriate guidance, and then get it done with no shucking and jiving.

And don't read into my words as being overly harsh and flaming you. It's just the reality of the situation your in and the person we know you need to interact with. Being honest and blunt is needed to get your attention so you understand what needs to be done. Plus we see so many folks through here that suffer from the syndrome that we don't have much patience for it.
 
Stewartb said:
Soup Nazi syndrome?
Click to expand...

Nah. He just takes what he does very seriously.

Bruce is an ATP, a CFII, and a former Naval Aviator, in addition to being a physician and AME. This is a guy who loves aviation and doesn't want to waste his time with people who don't approach flying with the respect and seriousness that it deserves. Being honest and taking responsibility are big parts of that.

Rich
 
I'm familiar. I have no criticism. He's not the only source of information or difficult medical approvals yet guys on this site seem to think so.
 
Add to it an already large client list, that MANY people seek out his assistance, need to do his continuing education requirements, a desire to be an advocate for the pilot community as a whole, and finally coupled with he only has so much time/energy... the last both are precious resources to him. As a result, those that waste them are quickly shown the door.
 
Stewartb said:
I'm familiar. I have no criticism. He's not the only source of information or difficult medical approvals yet guys on this site seem to think so.
Click to expand...

True. But the others are not very well known. Even if there are 8-10 others of his caliber and drive within the CONUS, Doc Bruce is the only one that nearly all of us are aware of.
 
Stewartb said:
I'm familiar. I have no criticism. He's not the only source of information or difficult medical approvals yet guys on this site seem to think so.
Click to expand...

I wish we could get one of them to join this board (or Red for that matter) and help some of these new people navigate the tough FAA waters. Everyone recommends Bruce because he has actually helped us. He gave me in particular, thousands of dollars of advice (money I would have wasted) and did it because he wanted to help. I see the occasional "he aint the only one" comment, he isn't, he is just the one who is accessible to us.
 
And you find it necessary to counsel referred patients in the proper etiquette so they don't get bounced. No offense but that's a bit humorous.
 
Stewartb said:
And you find it necessary to counsel referred patients in the proper etiquette so they don't get bounced. No offense but that's a bit humorous.
Click to expand...

Would you rather us not so they continue to be frustrated and waste money/time?
 
Doc's not overly concerned over your etiquette. Hell, his is attrocious enough as it is. He'll bust ass for you, but he can't do that if you lie to him or the FAA. He's got no patience for anybody who even considers that route.

The FAA has a perpetual burr up their ass on any psychoactive drug. As you're learning going in cold with the answer YES to anything in question 18 is a bad idea.

There are two routes possible:

1. Convince the FAA you really never had depression (or whatever bullpoop diagnosis you idiot family practice moron based his prescription on). Then get off the drugs and get a workup to show you aren't suffering for the lack.

2. Get on the SSRI special issuance. You'll still need the full psych workup. In addition you may need to switch drugs, I don't know if Celexa is on the protocol or not.

Either way it's going to run you close to $2500 ***PLUS*** whatever Doc Bruce charges. He can't do all the work, he ain't got the right certs...he's a gas passer by profession I think.
 
Sailplanes, hanggliders, paragliders, hot air balloons, skydiving and all manner of ultralights are available to you even with a denial. Most of that stuff is more fun then regular GA private pilot stuff as well.
 
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