I want a motorcycle!

HeatherCFI said:
I mostly want to go for rides on the weekends, and use it to ride to work, etc. My commute is either 8 miles or 32 miles. I live 8 miles from work, and my boyfriend lives 32 miles from my work, so wherever I sleep the night before...
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vontresc said:
A suzuki SV-650 wouldn't be a bad bike to start on either. That bike may be a little more expensive than what you are budgeting for though. One more word of advice. Get a helmet that is comfortable, even if it costs a little more.
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The SV-650 is a GREAT bike! But because you talked about commuting I personally would recommend a Wee Strom (Suzuki V-Strom 650). I don't like wearing a backpack while riding. I would look for a used Wee Strom that had factory side and top hard bags. Just my 2ct worth.
 
steingar said:
Dirt/track is no safer/more dangerous than quiet residential streets. The main thing is to get out on a bike that is light and insufficiently powerful to accidentally speed the noob into a parked car/pedestrian/post/house/tree.
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Last time I fell while riding trails, I got up, brushed off the dirt, picked up the bike, and got back on.

Everyone agrees a low weight/power bike is the best choice.

(BTW -- a Suzuki DR350 is an excellent option -- road and dirt capable)

The question is -- where can a new rider learn the most with the least potential for catastrophic results?

Last time I rode trails, there were no Buicks threatening to broadside me.
 
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I learned to ride off road when I was a kid. Certainly it's a lot of fun and the consequences are usually minimal (until ya get into the crazy terrain). It doesn't all translate to the street and I had to learn a few things when I started riding bigger bikes.

Last summer I watched a friend learn to ride a a rather overpowered street bike in an urban setting. She took a two or three day riding course at a community college, got her license, and then bought a Vrod. Sure, she dropped it a few times but she is a good equipment operator and seems to be dilligent with traffic awareness.

Is one learning path better than the other? I really can't say one way or the other. I will say that the riding course helped her prepare and there is no doubt in my mind that her outcome wouldn't have been the same without the training. When we discussed different situations during a riding day she frequently related her response to specific points in the training.

Now I'll back track a little and say that I think it's unlikely that novice riders understand the role that maintenance plays in being a safe rider. People develop equipment care habits in cars and that is a primer for disaster in bikes. Tires, brakes, suspension, drive, oil, and gas. Check'em all regularly or pay a price. Last week, coming home from the airport I found a stranded biker - out of gas.
 
dmccormack said:
Last time I fell while riding trails, I got up, brushed off the dirt, picked up the bike, and got back on.

Everyone agrees a low weight/power bike is the best choice.

(BTW -- a Suzuki DR350 is an excellent option -- road and dirt capable)

The question is -- where can a new rider learn the most with the least potential for catastrophic results?

Last time I rode trails, there were no Buicks threateniing to broadside me.
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Tires have less traction in dirt than asphalt, and asphalt is where most of us do most of our riding. Low traffic areas abound in most metropoli, and are reasonably safe for the aspiring noob. The one and only time I had a get-off I got up, picked up the bike with help (Goldwing), and kept going. Of course I hurt like the dickens the next day.

Street bikes don't tend to fall over while in motion, most noobs drop them at a standstill. Nothing wrong with dirt or learning on a dirt bike, first bike I ever rode was a dirt bike of some sort. If the opportunity presents itself no reason not to. But true dirt bikes are not street legal, and street-legal dirt bikes are not as fast or comfortable as their street-only brethren. If one can get only one bike (and at the stated budget that seems like a solid limitation) I would get the bike that will best suit the mission.

Dirt bikes are loads more fun if and only if you have dirt to ride them on. Unfortunately I left my estate in my other pants.
 
The Rebel is a great beginners bike, but at 5'10" you might be a bit cramped on it. But that can be fixed. Ninja 250 is another good bike. We own both (well, two Rebels and a Ninjette).

Even though both are only 250cc, the Ninja is far faster than the Rebel. Geared different, I believe, and it will leave the Rebel in the dust. But I'm pretty happy with my little Rebel. Bought it slightly used in 2005 and it has just over 23K on it now. Took it to WI this past summer (5,000 mile RT). I started on the Rebel, then when I was comfy on that, got a Honda Shadow 750. My tastes have changed, and I seldom ride the Shadow anymore, but it is a very forgiving bike and its the most comfortable bike we own (the Mustang saddle helped with that......) The Rebel is my daily commute bike. I've done some upgrades to it, and at 85 mpg and practically maintenance free, it has paid for itself many times over.

A small dual sport is also a good choice, but depending on where you live and where the dirt is, well, getting there can be a challenge. Our Honda CRF230L is street legal but taking it out on the highway is ummm...well, we just don't do it unless we have to. And the newer ones tend to cost a bit more (Rebel was 3K, CRF was close to 5K) I really love my F650GS, but the only way you're gonna get one of those for $3000 is if its in pieces and a couple of them are missing. (Hmm... try an earlier belt drive version called the F650CS.)

Start small, get comfy with your skills, then move up. Lots of bikes out there. Sit on all the ones you can. See if someone will let you take one for a test ride. Ask lots of questions. Insurance costs? Maintenance costs? Regular or Premium?

I cannot say enough about the gear. I realize it is a personal choice, but for me, the $1500 I have spent on my gear is cheap compared to skin grafts and brain damage. And BTW, don't expect them sexy looking chaps to save your ass should you find yourself sliding down the asphalt. :frown2:
 
bjohnson said:
The SV-650 is a GREAT bike! But because you talked about commuting I personally would recommend a Wee Strom (Suzuki V-Strom 650). I don't like wearing a backpack while riding. I would look for a used Wee Strom that had factory side and top hard bags. Just my 2ct worth.
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I think both the V-Stroms are great bikes, but the seat height is pretty high. Even though the OP is 5'-10", I'm not sure that it would be a real good starter ride. Good point on the storage, though.


Trapper John
 
DeeG said:
And BTW, don't expect them sexy looking chaps to save your ass should you find yourself sliding down the asphalt. :frown2:
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But they look absolutely fabulous on show tune karaoke night at the local alterno-bar!


Trapper John
 
DeeG said:
I cannot say enough about the gear. I realize it is a personal choice, but for me, the $1500 I have spent on my gear is cheap compared to skin grafts and brain damage. And BTW, don't expect them sexy looking chaps to save your ass should you find yourself sliding down the asphalt. :frown2:
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And don't expect anything short of a full face helmet to keep your face from being scraped off when the 4-grit belt sander starts grinding on your head. BTDT and walked away totally unharmed from a certain fatal head hit with nothing more than a light headache.

Crash gear is a one time payment life insurance policy. Never mount up without it.

...In my experienced opinion anyway, YMMV.
 
steingar said:
Dirt/track is no safer/more dangerous than quiet residential streets. The main thing is to get out on a bike that is light and insufficiently powerful to accidentally speed the noob into a parked car/pedestrian/post/house/tree.
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Yeah, but she's not going to spend much time there, and the problem with a low power light street bike is that the only safety advantage you have is accelleration, and anything less than a 750 is unable to get out of the way of the guy who is coming into traffic from your 5 o'clock, especially if he is coming down the on ramp with 20mph on you, and "just didn't see you". That is the accident that even if you are careful will kill you. Even a 750, if you're cruising down the highway in high gear just rolling with traffic will require a double click downshift to get some accelleration, and that's the delay that will take you out, and all the gear in the world won't help you. I'd rather ride in flip flops shirtless and with shorts on a liter bike than fully geared on a 250.
 
I call shenanigans on that one! I've got over 350,000 miles on harleys alone and NEVER had some piece of hardware to fall off of one - they ranged from a '70 sportster to an '83 tourglide to a 93 electroglide sport. Now, that last one, it wasn't good to me - rocker box gaskets and base gaskets kept leaking (small leaks, but still... :mad:). But nothing ever fell off of it. :)

steingar said:
I sat on all the Harleys at Osh last year and boy were they heavy. My friends who ride Harleys tell me they're always finding bolts on the ground under the things. They call them harley nuggets (actually, that's a sanitized version of what they call them).

If its your thing go for it, we're all brothers of two wheels (even if I like to post Harley jokes). But I think something with that kind of weight might be a bit much for a noob, especially one of the fairer sex.
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etsisk said:
I call shenanigans on that one! I've got over 350,000 miles on harleys alone and NEVER had some piece of hardware to fall off of one - they ranged from a '70 sportster to an '83 tourglide to a 93 electroglide sport. Now, that last one, it wasn't good to me - rocker box gaskets and base gaskets kept leaking (small leaks, but still... :mad:). But nothing ever fell off of it. :)
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Good on you, and I will admit to having no personal experience in the matter not being an HD owner. However, I have heard the comment from multiple other HD owners.
 
steingar said:
Good on you, and I will admit to having no personal experience in the matter not being an HD owner. However, I have heard the comment from multiple other HD owners.
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There is no doubt that many Harleys do vibrate just a tad compared to the typical rice burner. Of course that vibration is a bad thing (tm) and it requires particular attention in terms of fastener selection, installation, and maintenance. In other words, use good lock washers and keep'em tight. Other locking fasteners are good/better also.

Some of the newer Harleys actually do try to reduce vibration with better engine mounts. Maybe there is hope for the future???
 
So I guess i shouldn't buy my friend's 2007 Yamaha V-star 1100 as my first bike?:nono:

Im glad I came across this thread. I know nothing about bikes (but i do have a competent mechanical sense, and i know the fundamentals), so its good for me to hear things from bike owners. I haven't gotten to the point of seriously considering buying one, but it has been a pesky fly in my ear several times in the last year.
 
jasc15 said:
So I guess i shouldn't buy my friend's 2007 Yamaha V-star 1100 as my first bike?:nono:

Im glad I came across this thread. I know nothing about bikes (but i do have a competent mechanical sense, and i know the fundamentals), so its good for me to hear things from bike owners. I haven't gotten to the point of seriously considering buying one, but it has been a pesky fly in my ear several times in the last year.
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My first street bike was a Yamaha XS Eleven Midnight Special, made an excellent first bike because it had a shaft drive (no maint an no easy wheelies) and the torque to just roll on the throttle in high gear at 55 and be doing 85 past the cars that were in front of me in a second, and in SoCal, that was very important. My second street bike was a V-Max, nothing could touch it. But then, I was 20 at the time and had been riding dirt bikes, mostly 500cc, since I was 8.
 
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Motorcycle Rider Course passed! Off to the DMV to take the written exam and get this added to my DL. I was going to wait til next summer to get a bike, but now I have the itch. So, I'm gonna shop around.

My plan is to get something under 500cc. I can take it to the course I just finished this weekend and practice all the manuevers with it on the same course. Get comfy with it, then go out on some less-traveled roads. Just like a pilot certificate, this is definitely a license to learn!
 
Congrats!

Good plan on getting the learner bike to get started. I'm a big believer that one needs to start out on learner bikes, and then move up once they get some more experience.
 
Please be careful riding a bike. Its the other guy you really have to worry about. Good you took the course and are starting out with something you can handle.
 
And don't forget the gear! Snell-rated full face helmet, leather or textile jacket with armor, leather gloves with padding in the palm. Closed shoes only, preferably boots.
 
steingar said:
And don't forget the gear! Snell-rated full face helmet, leather or textile jacket with armor, leather gloves with padding in the palm. Closed shoes only, preferably boots.
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Excellent recommendations!

I still cringe when I see the newly liberated zipping along at 80 wearing sunglasses, shorts, tank top, and flip flops.
 
There is some controversy in DOT versus Snell, and I will not claim to be wise enough to really address all the relevant issues. My snell helmet is heavier than any DOT helmet. More stuff between my noggin and Mr. Pavement. That does it for me, that and the Snell is rated to a higher standard.

However, the most important thing is to have a helmet, and I think a full face is a must, especially for a noob. Lots of people hit the ground with their chin.
 
dmccormack said:
I still cringe when I see the newly liberated zipping along at 80 wearing sunglasses, shorts, tank top, and flip flops.
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That seems to be the outfit of choice anymore. Lots of t-shirts, shorts and sneakers. Sometimes to save your *ss you have to lay a bike down. Without protective clothing and helmet that turns from a mildly irritating initiative into a painfull and potentially life threatening one.
 
steingar said:
There is some controversy in DOT versus Snell, and I will not claim to be wise enough to really address all the relevant issues. My snell helmet is heavier than any DOT helmet. More stuff between my noggin and Mr. Pavement. That does it for me, that and the Snell is rated to a higher standard.

However, the most important thing is to have a helmet, and I think a full face is a must, especially for a noob. Lots of people hit the ground with their chin.
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Understand. The thing to understand is it's not DOT versus Snell as much as it's Snell Vs. Newer European standards.

There are some really ****ty DOT helmets out there that probably don't meet DOT and surely don't meet the European standards.

Basically I'd take a DOT / ECE 22.05 helmet before a Snell. I would *gladly* take a Snell before a plain old DOT certified helmet.

You won't find a ECE and Snell certified helmet. The standards are different and the Snell is built to take a harder impact -- problem is that it handles all the lower impacts less gracefully. There is evidence to suggest that the Snell provides more damage on most of the crashes because it's over-built on the impact it can take. Whereas the ECE wont' take as hard of a impact but will transmit much less energy to your brain on all the lower impacts.

When the Snell standards were written we knew less and the helmet was spec'd for an impact that even after the Snell slows it--will likely still cause some serious damage to the rider. We tought the brain was tougher than it really is back then.
 
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Anthony said:
Sometimes to save your *ss you have to lay a bike down. Without protective clothing and helmet that turns from a mildly irritating initiative into a painfull and potentially life threatening one.
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Hmmm...

I think in the old days of poor brakes, rubber, and suspensions that was the case.

But I can't think of any situation where it would be preferable to slide rather than brake...?

Maybe I don't have a good enough imagination..?
 
dmccormack said:
Hmmm...

I think in the old days of poor brakes, rubber, and suspensions that was the case.

But I can't think of any situation where it would be preferable to slide rather than brake...?

Maybe I don't have a good enough imagination..?
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My bike, no problem. It is a top of the line racing bike, so its light weight with really good brakes. I can't imagine a Harley, with all that weight, being stoppable in a short distance with the brakes supplied by the manufacturer. I know my Wing isn't.

And emergency stop isn't even that salient; I did one of those before I even knew what gear was. If you have a get off at any kind of speed without gear your rash will be painful and slow to heal. Without a helmet you can be a vegetable or worse. It can happen to anyone. It is just common sense to have some crash protection, and with the internet and the relative abundance of manufacturers it is not as expensive as it was in the day.
 
dmccormack said:
Hmmm...

I think in the old days of poor brakes, rubber, and suspensions that was the case.

But I can't think of any situation where it would be preferable to slide rather than brake...?

Maybe I don't have a good enough imagination..?
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Yeah, I haven't owned a bike in almost twenty years, and I know the technology is MUCH better now. However, when someone pulls right out in front of you braking may not be enough. I'll defer to those riding on more modern stuff. Even in the late 70's and 80's I was still riding Triumphs and Nortons.
 
dmccormack said:
Hmmm...

I think in the old days of poor brakes, rubber, and suspensions that was the case.

But I can't think of any situation where it would be preferable to slide rather than brake...?

Maybe I don't have a good enough imagination..?
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I intentionally laid a bike down once. I was in the left lane. A truck pulled out in front of me and stopped blocking my lane. There was a car beside me in the right lane and there was oncoming traffic. The car beside me braked hard and I couldn't get behind it. There was no way I could stop in time. I laid it on its side and then I was sliding down the road. Somehow the bike slid further than I did. It went under the truck and I stopped a few feet before the truck. Didn't hurt the truck and I rode the bike away with quite a bit of cosmetic damage.

It all happened in a second. I would have hit the side of the truck and been toast if I wouldn't have laid it down. I did it subconsciously -- probably from my dirt-biking days. Went from a happy ride to being up **** creek in a second..so fast you don't know it.. I got really lucky... I just remember how surreal it was watching my speedometer as I separated from the bike followed by the sparks kicking up.
 
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jesse said:
... I just remember how surreal it was watching my speedometer as I separated from the bike followed by the sparks kicking up.
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To this day I have not found a comparable experience to sliding down the road and looking at the bike sliding & sparking down the road beside me.

I realy never want to do that again. I limped away but the bike needed major repair.
 
steingar said:
My bike, no problem. It is a top of the line racing bike, so its light weight with really good brakes. I can't imagine a Harley, with all that weight, being stoppable in a short distance with the brakes supplied by the manufacturer. I know my Wing isn't.

And emergency stop isn't even that salient; I did one of those before I even knew what gear was. If you have a get off at any kind of speed without gear your rash will be painful and slow to heal. Without a helmet you can be a vegetable or worse. It can happen to anyone. It is just common sense to have some crash protection, and with the internet and the relative abundance of manufacturers it is not as expensive as it was in the day.
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I had a 1983 Suzuki GS650, then 1 '97 Suzuki DR350 (Dual Sport).

When I moved to the '01 FZ1, I was (and still am) certain the bike is more capable than I am. That is to say -- the brakes will probably stop quicker than I am willing to try.
 
steingar said:
There is some controversy in DOT versus Snell, and I will not claim to be wise enough to really address all the relevant issues. My snell helmet is heavier than any DOT helmet. More stuff between my noggin and Mr. Pavement. That does it for me, that and the Snell is rated to a higher standard.

However, the most important thing is to have a helmet, and I think a full face is a must, especially for a noob. Lots of people hit the ground with their chin.
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Weight-wise, ask the late Mr. Earnhardt if heavier is better, wrapped around your head, attached to your neck.

I'd go for the best impact protection in the lowest weight, personally.
 
etsisk said:
Weight-wise, ask the late Mr. Earnhardt if heavier is better, wrapped around your head, attached to your neck.
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I'm not sure that that's really a valid comparison. I don't think basilar skull fractures are very common in motorcycle accidents where the rider is wearing a helmet.

I'd go for the best impact protection in the lowest weight, personally.
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Sure, but define what the "best impact protection" is. At what point do you decrease protection to save weight?


Trapper John
 
Trapper John said:
Sure, but define what the "best impact protection" is. At what point do you decrease protection to save weight?
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The point comes where you're designing a helmet to protect from a certain level of an impact -- that even after protecting -- likely leaves you brain damage. This impact is very rare in crashes.

By protecting against that impact you have to use stronger materials that transmit more energy to the brain on the lower energy more common impacts.

Basically, if you protect too much, you make more common impacts more dangerous.

Since the SNELL standard was set so long along -- we have learnt a lot more about the brain and accidents. We have discovered the brain isn't anywhere near as strong as we thought it was. Essentially the SNELL helmet will deliver brain-damaging levels of energy at some fairly common accident energy levels. This happens because it's designed to protect against a higher level of an impact that is rare and its protection at that level is essentially brain-damaging as well.

The European standards are based on our newer knowledge. They won't protect an impact as high as a SNELL will -- (which the SNELL might kill you anyway at that impact) but they will better protect you at the more common impacts.

You have to figure out a few things.

1.) How strong of an impact can the brain take without damage?
2.) What level of impact is most common in motorcycle accidents?
3.) What range are we going to design our helmet for keeping in mind that we must keep the energy below #1 throughout this entire range.

Since variable #1 and #2 have changed since the SNELL standard came to be....the standard should be revised...and it hasn't been.
 
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Jessie, you raise a good point and have increased my own awareness. Next time I go helmet shopping (soon, believe me, my Shoei is in its teens) I will keep this in mind. However, the other thing that trumps just about everything is fit. I have always worn Shoeis because their fit is superior on my head than any other manufacturer I had seen. However, shopping will be more interesting this time around because there are now far more manufacturers. So I will keep your post in mind. I was unaware that one could purchase a helmet meeting the European standards but not Snell, and will look for such when I next go helmet shopping.
 
That's good info Jesse, thanks.

Used to be the Snell certification was all you needed to know...DOT was just a self-certification and those worthless beanies they sell at the Harley stores all have the DOT sticker.


Trapper John
 
Trapper John said:
That's good info Jesse, thanks.

Used to be the Snell certification was all you needed to know...DOT was just a self-certification and those worthless beanies they sell at the Harley stores all have the DOT sticker.


Trapper John
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No problem. DOT still sucks. You just won't find a SNELL / European helmet. So, if you're going to buy one that isn't SNELL make sure it meets the European standards.
 
steingar said:
Jessie, you raise a good point and have increased my own awareness. Next time I go helmet shopping (soon, believe me, my Shoei is in its teens) I will keep this in mind. However, the other thing that trumps just about everything is fit. I have always worn Shoeis because their fit is superior on my head than any other manufacturer I had seen. However, shopping will be more interesting this time around because there are now far more manufacturers. So I will keep your post in mind. I was unaware that one could purchase a helmet meeting the European standards but not Snell, and will look for such when I next go helmet shopping.
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Good deal. SNELL still works quite well and saves a lot of lifes. There is just more to think about now :)

You'll probably have to research some online. The idiots in the store won't have a clue about ECE 22.05. It is rarely printed on a helmet in the U.S...so you'll have to look at the manufactures specs.
 
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