I thought those mil-spec $10,000 toilet seats were just a joke...

I'm still currently in a position where digging into specifics would qualify as "****ting where I eat", but there's nothing that could be said to convince me to ignore what my own eyes have seen as far as waste by military and DOD. I'm only looking at a small facet of operations where I am, and the stories would sound made up they're so silly.

And for the record, I can respect an individual without blindly respecting the organization they belong to, and vice versa. So saying the military is wasteful is not to say each member is wasteful... But it's not to say that you're necessarily a blameless cog in the machine either.
 
Morgan3820 said:
22 years DOD civilian. Repeatedly I have seen aircraft fly around the pattern and dumping fuel to go through the monthly fuel allotment because they weren't able to fly earlier for whatever reason. Waste, pure and simple. I see other examples of it every day. And yes the Air Force is the worst. By far
Click to expand...

Wow, that is pretty aggressive. I've seen some dumb, useless flights to log quarterly hours, as I previously mentioned, but this takes the cake for most wasteful. That is probably a bit of an ironic statement coming from a Navy guy, but at least when we dump at the boat, it is for a reason, i.e. you need to hold onto the gas in case a recovery starts late, but you can't land with all that extra gas when it actually happens on or ahead of schedule.....cue the dump switch coming forward.
 
Wow, lots of misinformation in this thread. I would submit that the Congressional budgeting process incentivizes the services and all governmental agencies to waste money. For example, Congress' inability to pass a budget on-time has given my previous organization four months to execute a twelve month budget. That drives demand through the roof, and soon the government is paying 10 times the normal purchase price. Even without the waste, operating the world's greatest Air Force comes with a hefty price tag.
 
Additionally, nobody is dumping fuel in the pattern just to waste it. Everybody knows that the AF would rather poison the air with chemtrails instead.
 
Morgan3820 said:
22 years DOD civilian. Repeatedly I have seen aircraft fly around the pattern and dumping fuel to go through the monthly fuel allotment because they weren't able to fly earlier for whatever reason. Waste, pure and simple. I see other examples of it every day. And yes the Air Force is the worst. By far
Click to expand...

20 Years / 2500 hours flying Prowlers from 87-07 and I have never seen a military jet dumping gas unless there was a very good reason like an emergency requiring getting down to landing wait ASAP. I've dumped my fair share but never wasted it.
 
Pugs said:
20 Years / 2500 hours flying Prowlers from 87-07 and I have never seen a military jet dumping gas unless there was a very good reason like an emergency requiring getting down to landing wait ASAP. I've dumped my fair share but never wasted it.
Click to expand...
So that makes me wrong? I don't see it much anymore but I know what I saw and confirmed by a pilot friend.
 
I’ve seen lots of fuel dumped. I roughly calculated that I dumped more fuel in my Navy flying than I would burn in 20 years of driving. But I never dumped just to waste it. Like most people, I’d rather just burn it if it needed to be used.

I heard stories of fuel being dumped that way but I never saw it.
 
Last edited:
Morgan3820 said:
So that makes me wrong? I don't see it much anymore but I know what I saw and confirmed by a pilot friend.
Click to expand...

While I am sure you saw what you saw, I will maintain that I have never heard nor seen anyone dump gas to try and spend down OPTAR.
 
When, what type of aircraft and what pattern (base)?

Morgan3820 said:
22 years DOD civilian. Repeatedly I have seen aircraft fly around the pattern and dumping fuel to go through the monthly fuel allotment because they weren't able to fly earlier for whatever reason. Waste, pure and simple. I see other examples of it every day. And yes the Air Force is the worst. By far
Click to expand...
 
I’ve never heard of a base that had to go through it’s monthly fuel allotment. That’s absurd. What do you do for aircraft not capable of dumping fuel in flight? Plenty of times we were deployed for most of the month. Where’s all that excess fuel back at base go?

I used to help manage our flying hour program. We had no pressure to reach our flying hour limits and because of lack of missions / maintenance, we rarely met the flying hours that we were allotted.
 
JohnAJohnson said:
I spent a career in the Air Force and an individual's travel expenses, credit card use, or ANY expense had to be documented and reviewed. There was never any money to freely spend on political or other agendas, like there is at FEMA and most other federal organizations. Each squadron submitted a budget annually, and each "want" was scrutinized and had to be approved in advance, but only if it was within the budgetary constraints. Each tire, every gallon of JP-4, every engine etc., had to be budgeted for, and at the end of the year if you were out of money, you sometimes had to park airplanes. I watched for years as a liberally biased media ALWAYS attacked the military for waste and ignored social programs, and other government waste pits. While there certainly is some waste in the military, a bit of critical thinking might show that $700 hammers are probably a bargain, especially in a world of Cessna R182 $22,000 gear saddles.

So please don't be too quick to jump on the Military Wasteful bandwagon. They are probably the only government entity where we even come close to achieving value.
Click to expand...
 
JohnAJohnson said:
When, what type of aircraft and what pattern (base)?
Click to expand...
Many years ago my late father, who was a retired Air Force wing and base commander, told me about a time when he had to have the guard shack at the main gate for the base rebuilt. I recall him telling me he had a budget of around $75,000 (which at that time would have built a very nice home with a swimming pool.) He had it built for less than half the budgeted amount and caught hell for not using the entire amount. Of course the logic was if you don't spend it all we'll lose that amount in the next budget. It's not the people serving who are the problem. It's the policy makers and lobbyists.
 
flyingfrog said:
Additionally, nobody is dumping fuel in the pattern just to waste it. Everybody knows that the AF would rather poison the air with chemtrails instead.
Click to expand...

When I was stationed at McGuire 74-77 they flew C-123 sprayer patterns over the base. Told us it was for beetles I think. Hmph. Liars. ;)

btw these were the agent orange planes from VN! :eek:
 
Archer Jack said:
Many years ago my late father, who was a retired Air Force wing and base commander, told me about a time when he had to have the guard shack at the main gate for the base rebuilt. I recall him telling me he had a budget of around $75,000 (which at that time would have built a very nice home with a swimming pool.) He had it built for less than half the budgeted amount and caught hell for not using the entire amount. Of course the logic was if you don't spend it all we'll lose that amount in the next budget. It's not the people serving who are the problem. It's the policy makers and lobbyists.
Click to expand...

I wonder what Mare Island Naval Shipyard spent back in about 1975/6 to rebuild the guard shack at the north entrance because of NRRO? NRRO (better known to yard birds, I was one, as Rickover's Gestapo) didn't like the old guard shack because it was built to look like the conning tower of a submarine, complete with dive planes. "That tells people you work on submarines here!" No kidding! Sit along the Napa River on the Vallejo side and look at the yard. Can you guess what was worked on? Oh, and want to find out what boat was the latest into the yard? Drive down I-80 past "The Horse and Cow" bar and look at the submarine on the roof. The hull number painted there told you who the latest boat in was. NRRO people weren't hired for being the brightest bulb around.

It's all history now. MINSY has been shut down for years.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top