I thought I wanted a Mooney...

Take the time to sit in the planes and fly them a bit - will do wonders to sort out what would work for you.
  • When I first got my ppl, I knew I wanted a Skyhawk. After renting one for a few X Country trips with wife, I knew I didn't.
  • I knew I wanted a Tiger. After renting one for a X Country trip with wife and daughter, I knew (actually was told as well) never a Tiger - too small for more than 2 people, too hard for wife to get into, too light/bounced too easily for wife.
  • I knew I wanted an Archer/Arrow. I sat in one at an airshow recently to try it out. After 2 seconds I knew it didn't feel right - too cramped. I can take Mooney of the list as well.
  • I thought about a Skylane. After renting a fixed leg Skylane a few times for local and X Country with wife (sometimes another in back seat), it all seemed to work.
  • I knew I wanted a RG Skylane. I called an insurance company about rates, I reviewed the maintenance costs for our club's 182 RG. I know I don't want an RG version.
  • So now I'm focusing in on a straight leg 182 to buy in next few years in retirement.
Theme here is to take some time, rent and fly a variety, and then figure out what you might want.
 
I travelled locally with plans to go make an offer on a Mooney. Sat in it and decided against it. I also am short. I was eating the panel and felt like I was sitting on the floor. I like the performance and looks but the setup didn't suit me. I find that Mooney owners are very happy and love their experience. I got a Bonanza in the end even though I'd heard so little about them online...
 
TheFB said:
I travelled locally with plans to go make an offer on a Mooney. Sat in it and decided against it. I also am short. I was eating the panel and felt like I was sitting on the floor. I like the performance and looks but the setup didn't suit me. I find that Mooney owners are very happy and love their experience. I got a Bonanza in the end even though I'd heard so little about them online...
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It might sound like a major adventure to fly to Texas to buy without ever having sat in one, but it wasn't quite as big a deal as it sounds....flights are cheap right now. Total cost with a flight down Tuesday night, flight back Wednesday night, and hotel room, was under $500. But yeah, it would have been cheaper (and probably smarter) to start locally.
 
tawood said:
It might sound like a major adventure to fly to Texas to buy without ever having sat in one, but it wasn't quite as big a deal as it sounds....flights are cheap right now. Total cost with a flight down Tuesday night, flight back Wednesday night, and hotel room, was under $500. But yeah, it would have been cheaper (and probably smarter) to start locally.
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Not judging the trip at all. Years ago, I drove to Spruce Creek all night to see a Tiger I didn’t buy. When you want/need a plane, there is a level of commitment (desperation) others may not understand.
 
tawood said:
It might sound like a major adventure to fly to Texas to buy without ever having sat in one, but it wasn't quite as big a deal as it sounds....flights are cheap right now. Total cost with a flight down Tuesday night, flight back Wednesday night, and hotel room, was under $500. But yeah, it would have been cheaper (and probably smarter) to start locally.
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I don't think anyone is questioning you going to look at a plane and not being happy with it........for me, this is kinda what I'm bustin' your cajones over....."For the past 3 years, I've planned to upgrade to the Mooney..." without ever having sat in one. but I think we're past that. we're past that, aren't we? ;)
 
eman1200 said:
I don't think anyone is questioning you going to look at a plane and not being happy with it........for me, this is kinda what I'm bustin' your cajones over....."For the past 3 years, I've planned to upgrade to the Mooney..." without ever having sat in one. but I think we're past that. we're past that, aren't we? ;)
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Ok, gotcha! But, I HAVE researched then bought other planes without ever sitting in them (such as a Rutan canard/experimental), so why should this be different? LOL.
 
tawood said:
Ok, gotcha! But, I HAVE researched then bought other planes without ever sitting in them (such as a Rutan canard/experimental), so why should this be different? LOL.
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I mean, to ME personally, it's no different.........I would NEVER make such a large purchase without having sat in it, tested it, whatever. I personally can't imagine doing that, but if it works for you, cool. and I've heard of other people doing that, to me it's crazy.
 
EdFred said:
...And for whoever suggested a Viking for someone who thought a Mooney was tight...hahahahahahaha.
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I just noticed this comment...is a Viking smaller Ed? They seem like they'd be roomy, but I've never been in one of those either. If so, I'm sorry to hear it, as I was going to look at one this weekend if it's still available (actually over your way near Grand Rapids).
 
I actually liked the one Mooney that I sat in when we were looking to buy. Was comfortable, well organized panel (was a newer one... not the ones with the gauges organized by shotgun). And it was doing like 500 knots just sitting in the guy's hangar only burning 2 gph.

Only reason we passed on it was the windscreen was so crazed I couldn't see out of it. For realz. The seller offered to take me up in it for a test flight and I declined. But it seemed pretty darn comfy. I'm 5'11, so average height.

Honestly, when it comes time to look for a new plane, I'm not scratching Mooney off the list.
 
It took five minutes to get out of it? :eek: My gosh, did you stop for a coffee break? Hint, the seats are easily moved rearward for entrance and exit for those with no agility. I like leaving my seats in place, but many folks move them out of the way for entrance and exit. I’m 72 years old and am still plenty agile enough to get in and out with no problem or delay whatsoever.

I am just as turned off when getting in a 172 or 182 as you were in a real plane. A 172 is like sitting on a bar stool with the rudder pedals about three feet below you and the panel is in a tunnel about three feet away with the tachometer so low you get a crick in your neck trying to see it.

My point is, it’s a lot about what you get accustomed to. I like very much having my feet out in front of me rather than below me. I also like having the panel up close. As far as the stiff controls go, the Mooney has pushrods rather than stretch cables and pulleys. Yes, they take more force, but provide for much more precise control. A Mooney is probably about sixty degrees of yoke for lock to lock movement while the sloppy cable/pulley planes are probably twice that, which results in precision as it does in a sports car. Getting out of a stretchy cable/pulley airplane into a pushrod Mooney is like getting out of an SUV with worn out shocks and steering linkage into a Ferrari. Some folks fly with enough precision to appreciate a Ferrari and some don’t.
 
tawood said:
I just noticed this comment...is a Viking smaller Ed? They seem like they'd be roomy, but I've never been in one of those either. If so, I'm sorry to hear it, as I was going to look at one this weekend if it's still available (actually over your way near Grand Rapids).
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For me the Viking was the single most uncomfortable plane I have ever been in. It was tighter than the Mooney. You don't sit in a viking you wear a viking and you wear it like Spanx.

Is that Viking you were looking at Orange?
 
MBDiagMan said:
...Getting out of a stretchy cable/pulley airplane into a pushrod Mooney is like getting out of an SUV with worn out shocks and steering linkage into a Ferrari. Some folks fly with enough precision to appreciate a Ferrari and some don’t.
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Funny, but that's the first thing I told my girlfriend when I got back, that anyone that says a Mooney is like a Ferrari is completely full of it! (when I said it to her I used an expletive) That is without a doubt, the worst comparison I've ever heard! I'm sorry, but from my point of view I found nothing "sports car" like about it, the complete opposite. I told her I felt like I was flying a 200 mph school bus, or freight hauler.
 
FastEddieB said:
Nope.

Lots of folks just like them, but not to the point they’d own one.
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^^^That's me. I can hop in and out of a Mooney with no problem and being a little tight doesn't bother me (F1 racecar drivers have it even tighter and sit in there for hours). I just found it a little too focused on a single mission (fast efficient long distance travel for 2-3), which didn't quite fit what I want in a plane.
 
tawood said:
Funny, but that's the first thing I told my girlfriend when I got back, that anyone that says a Mooney is like a Ferrari is completely full of it! (when I said it to her I used an expletive) That is without a doubt, the worst comparison I've ever heard! I'm sorry, but from my point of view I found nothing "sports car" like about it, the complete opposite. I told her I felt like I was flying a 200 mph school bus, or freight hauler.
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It's like a sportscar in the lack of utility :)
 
Deelee said:
Only reason we passed on it was the windscreen was so crazed I couldn't see out of it. For realz.
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You do realize windscreens are easy to replace, I would have deducted $1000 or so from my offer and went forward.
The only reasons IMO to not buy a plane today when you can get detailed pictures, electronic copies of the logs, and search federal databases for accidents are:
The owner didn’t represent the plane honestly….if I catch you in a lie, deal is off.
Corrosion…it can kill a plane if in a airframe and can destroy an engine.
Major fuel leaks, if avgas is dripping on the ground, it’s not airworthy.
 
tawood said:
Funny, but that's the first thing I told my girlfriend when I got back, that anyone that says a Mooney is like a Ferrari is completely full of it! (when I said it to her I used an expletive) That is without a doubt, the worst comparison I've ever heard! I'm sorry, but from my point of view I found nothing "sports car" like about it, the complete opposite. I told her I felt like I was flying a 200 mph school bus, or freight hauler.
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if you want to hear more of the uneducated, internet boolsheet, just read tantalums post on page 1.
 
tawood said:
I told her I felt like I was flying a 200 mph school bus, or freight hauler.
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It’s been a while since I flew a Mooney but that wasn’t my experience. I wonder if there were some flight control rigging/control surface issues with the one you flew?

Ergonomically, it is what it is. I think a 114 would be a sweet ride. If I were to get a single I’d seriously consider an Ovation. Of course it would be mighty difficult trying to get my wife to buy off after the super roomy 310 cabin all these years. :)
 
tawood said:
...but then I flew one, and YIKES! NOT FOR ME! I looked at a nice for sale M20J (actually bought an airline ticket for the next day, and went from Michigan to Texas in less than 24 hours after the ad posting). Shame on me for never flying (or even sitting in) in a Mooney before "picking" one as my upgrade from the Cherokee that I just sold.
So, my impression was I wasn't flying it at all...It felt like I was guiding a missile...a missile that I was crammed into/took 5 minutes to get out of...I was feeling completely claustrophobic! Then the pitch was very sensitive, while the roll was, well, just not there. I had to use two hands to roll the thing into a normal bank, literally unable to bank with one hand (I thought there was something wrong with the plane, but after we landed, I could move the ailerons no problem/without binding). The seller was very nice, and took me for a long flight, but quite frankly, flying it/flying in it was not fun. I couldn't wait to get out of it.
My complex time/high performance time, up to this point, has all been in either a Piper Arrow, or a Cessna 182. Even though one is a high wing 230 hp and fixed gear while the other is a retractable with 200 hp, they both felt somewhat the same to me to fly. Granted, there were slight differences, but mainly the same I guess, and similar to the Cherokee or Cessna 172 or Taylorcraft or even experimental I've all owned in the past. The Mooney, on the other hand, didn't seem to fly like anything I was used to at all.
So I'm left wondering what to shop for now. For the past 3 years, I've planned to upgrade to the Mooney and through online/paper research I've gotten to know Mooney models, specifications, etc. Now that a Mooney is probably out of the question, I'm thinking I'd rather get somewhere a little slower, but with making my comfort a bigger priority. The Arrows I've flown seem nice comfort-wise, and from what I've seen maybe even a Beech Sierra would do. Commander's I've heard are roomy...but I don't think I can afford a nice 114, so maybe someone with a 112 can fill me in on some details...? What else is out there? I've looked at Beech 35s, which I think are awesome, but I'm trying to stay under $160k or so and it just doesn't seem like that amount gets you far in a 35 these days...and it definitely doesn't get far in a 182. Also, please don't say "Comanche", just my opinion but I think they're the ugliest plane ever made. Not trying to insult anyone's comanche, I just don't like the looks of them.
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if you want a fun plane that handles well you are looking in all the wrong places. You didn’t state your mission but if it can be met with a 2-seat sport plane like an RV, citabria / decathlon, then do it.
 
Radar Contact said:
It’s been a while since I flew a Mooney but that wasn’t my experience. I wonder if there were some flight control rigging/control surface issues with the one you flew?...
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I wondered that too...and that's why I gave the aileron's a wiggle after we landed, expecting them to be just as stiff on the ground as while flying (they weren't, they were very free once we weren't moving). I can't imagine them being only stiff while flying and having it be something other than design, but I suppose it's possible.
 
Johnbo said:
if you want a fun plane that handles well you are looking in all the wrong places. You didn’t state your mission but if it can be met with a 2-seat sport plane like an RV, citabria / decathlon, then do it.
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Getting a bit off track here...I'm NOT looking for "sports car" handling...that's not my issue. It was just that the mooney flew SO DIFFERENT from what I've flown in the past, it caught me by surprise, and in addition, between the handling and the ergonomics, I can't fathom flying it and enjoying it.
 
An M20J is really a nice airplane and you really should have flown 3 flights in one before rejecting the model so quickly. From you flight, you can’t imagine flying an M20J in and out of a 2000 ft runway, but the plane will do nicely.
 
MooneyDriver78 said:
You do realize windscreens are easy to replace, I would have deducted $1000 or so from my offer and went forward
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You actually reminded me of the other reason we didn't get it... he wouldn't budge on the price. Good point, though. If he would have come off his asking price by about $5k, we would have picked it up. (this was before the crazy-paying-more-than-asking-price-sight-unseen times)

It was a nice aircraft. No regrets, though. I love the Arrow we have.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
You cannot decide you don't like a plane until you've owned 3 separate versions of a plane model and each of them for a minimum of 45 years - PoA
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And even then you are wrong. Somehow. Unless you got a nice Bonanza. Then you are correct. - PoA
 
Deelee said:
And even then you are wrong. Somehow. Unless you got a nice Bonanza. Then you are correct. - PoA
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I'd have loved a Bonanza. I've flown in them, nice airplanes. But I either couldn't afford the purchase price or the maintenance bill, or possibly both.
 
MBDiagMan said:
As far as the stiff controls go, the Mooney has pushrods rather than stretch cables and pulleys. Yes, they take more force, but provide for much more precise control.
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I don’t think there’s anything inherent in pushrods that would make them take “more force”. That seems to be an engineering/design choice.
 
tawood said:
I wondered that too...and that's why I gave the aileron's a wiggle after we landed, expecting them to be just as stiff on the ground as while flying (they weren't, they were very free once we weren't moving). I can't imagine them being only stiff while flying and having it be something other than design, but I suppose it's possible.
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I'm sure it was the standard wing leveler, which makes the ailerons very stiff in flight and promotes stability. There's a disconnect push button on the pilot's yoke, at their left thumb. When it is turned off, the controls are very reactive and it reminded me a lot of a cirrus...just a tiny nudge is all it needs.
 
bflynn said:
I'm sure it was the standard wing leveler, which makes the ailerons very stiff in flight and promotes stability. There's a disconnect push button on the pilot's yoke, at their left thumb. When it is turned off, the controls are very reactive and it reminded me a lot of a cirrus...just a tiny nudge is all it needs.
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Nope, as I said before, it didn't have the wing leveler...it had a standard autopilot instead (which was turned off). I asked/double checked that when flying. Owner said, "Nope, no wing leveler. M20Js are stiff in roll." His words.
 
EdFred said:
This whole light/heavy on the controls I'm gonna toss in the same drawer as "182's are SOOOOO nose heavy." Maybe some of y'all just need to eat some spinach. :D
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Funny, and I guess its all about individual perceptions, but I've never considered the 182 nose heavy...but the arrow on flare, THAT seems nose heavy.
 
tawood said:
Funny, and I guess its all about individual perceptions, but I've never considered the 182 nose heavy...but the arrow on flare, THAT seems nose heavy.
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The Arrow never felt nose heavy to me either. Maybe I just trim the shizz out of everything I fly.
 
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