I thought I wanted a Mooney...

EdFred said:
Tim,

I know you say they are ugly, but they are just a wide body Mooney with the tail on the correct way. Let me take you up for a ride in the Comanche, because everything you are saying screams Comanche. With tip tanks filled up, you get 6 hours of endurance, 900nm+ range, and still put almost 800lbs of people and baggage in the plane. Leave the tips empty, lose 2.4 hours/360nm but gain another 180lbs of stuff in the cabin.

And in my best Eugene Levy, "you think you hate it now, wait till you fly it."
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They are really ugly. Really really ugly.
I want one.
 
Yeah, bad back and being not limber, I'd scratch the Comanche off the list too. The getting in and out is a" technique" just like the Mooney is. Commander 114 would be a nice ride. 112 is nice too. A bit slower, but faster than that 140 was. And for whoever suggested a Viking for someone who thought a Mooney was tight...hahahahahahaha.
 
FWIW 13 years ago (wow I'm old). I flew a Mooney with @Ted and back-to back flew a Comanche with @EdFred . I found the Comanche to be far more fun to fly as well as a bit more ergonomic (except for the handbrake).
 
Mtns2Skies said:
FWIW 13 years ago (wow I'm old). I flew a Mooney with @Ted and back-to back flew a Comanche with @EdFred . I found the Comanche to be far more fun to fly as well as a bit more ergonomic (except for the handbrake).
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That's it. I'm never taking you flying in my airplane again! Oh, wait...
 
Mtns2Skies said:
FWIW 13 years ago (wow I'm old). I flew a Mooney with @Ted and back-to back flew a Comanche with @EdFred . I found the Comanche to be far more fun to fly as well as a bit more ergonomic (except for the handbrake).
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Later models (mine was #17 off the line) had toe brakes. I never bothered to add toe brakes because even when I had the Cherokee with toe brakes I only ever used the hand brake anyway. 12 years ago actually, because I didn't have the Comanche until 2009.
 
tawood said:
I think that is my biggest issue with the mooney, as I'm vertically challenged, so I have to move the seat waaaaaay up to reach the pedals, which makes the claustrophobic thing worse. Not to mention, even though I'm not fat, I'm NOT limber, I have a bad back, bad knees, etc.
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Like I said earlier, it isn't that you're vertically challenged so much as Al Mooney wasn't.

I don't find the Mooney any more difficult to get into than a Warrior, it's about the same process. That said, I'm not crazy about climbing into pipers.
 
Tantalum said:
Mooney are awesome planes on paper, potentially the best engineered SEP. But in practice they are a disaster to sit and spend more than 3 minutes in. Pragmatic design and going 6,000 knots on 1 gallon per hour have their limits when the panel is half an inch from your face and it takes 5 minutes of gymnastics to slither in and out of. Oh, and the staggered seating and the constant elbow rubbing on the window and the dude next to you gets old real fast. I know you hate the Comanche, so I won't recommend it, but Piper basically "copied" the Mooney and just made a more comfortable version of it.

bUt Al mOoNeY wAs a BiG GuY

whatever
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Do you stand in long lines to get the newest iphone for each iphone when they come out?

Just curious.
 
My only experience is in a buddies 67 M20F (which has been in his family since new). The plane flew great, loved the roll feel and the shoulder room was fine but with my little T-rex length arms and legs having the panel 3" from my face sucked. One with adjustable pedals might be good.
 
Funny, the first time I sat in a Mooney I KNEW it was the airplane for me. The only one I don't need a damn pillow to see over the nose. Still the most economical complex to own and operate, and the biggest bang for your buck in GA.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
They are really ugly. Really really ugly.
I want one.
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Beauty really is in the eye of the beholder - I don’t find Comanches bad looking at all! Now, a plane that everyone thinks is one of the best looking planes of all time, I think looks horrible - later model 310s with the Toucan-Sam nose. Could they have made that ridiculous shnoz any longer??

On a separate subject, given that pricing is a function of supply and demand...

steingar said:
the biggest bang for your buck in GA.
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...gee, can you think of any reasons that might be??
 
Mooneys are sweet airplanes, look cool, and from what I've seen fly well. I've been in an older 201 and it was sweet. I'd own one if there weren't Cirrus.


Oh, and a lot of Mooney owners are Johnson grabbers.... just saying.
 
What he means by bang for your buck is "bang......bang.......BANG, now spend some bucks" because you just had a prop strike.
 
tawood said:
Hey, forgot about the Cardinal RG! My co-pilot/girlfriend @KayDeeW doesn't like high wings, so they've been off my radar, but then again she'll probably put her pampered, bougie butt in whatever I buy. LOL.

My "mission": We do 99% of our flying for cross-country travel. We log about 100 hours a year, with only 2-4 hours local flights, with the remaining 96-98 hours going someplace, usually over 200 nm. Usually just @KayDeeW and I, although every now and then her younger son (who's pretty much adult sized) goes with us...I'd love to get something that can haul 4 adults "locally" and then also the two of us, with our fold-up bikes, on long trips. I should mention I log an occasional grass strip, here and there, a few times a year. The Cherokee wasn't really cutting it anymore for two reasons: it was a 140, so it struggled with just 3 of us in the plane, and it was slow (only 100 knots) so it limited our travel distances for weekend trips. I've also been flying quite a bit IFR, and the Cherokee was really limited in that regard as well: no AP, no approach GPS. Knowing I was planning to upgrade planes, I didn't want to upgrade the Cherokee panel.
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Based on that, I’d agree that a Comanche would be worth looking at!
 
EdFred said:
Tim,

I know you say they are ugly, but they are just a wide body Mooney with the tail on the correct way. Let me take you up for a ride in the Comanche, because everything you are saying screams Comanche. With tip tanks filled up, you get 6 hours of endurance, 900nm+ range, and still put almost 800lbs of people and baggage in the plane. Leave the tips empty, lose 2.4 hours/360nm but gain another 180lbs of stuff in the cabin.

And in my best Eugene Levy, "you think you hate it now, wait till you fly it."
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That's nice of you to offer Ed. I don't know if you know Ron Keil (he's big in Michigan aviation circles on my side of the state) but he offered to take me up in his Comanche 250 as well. Thing is, I've already sat in a Comanche last fall, and although I didn't fly in it, I didn't care for it either. I was trying to buy a Bonanza 35 from Indy Air that ended up having too many problems in the pre-buy. While I was there, they had a Comanche for sale, and I got in it. It was weird, because even though I believe it was a little bigger than my Cherokee, it felt smaller. Maybe it was the bench seat in back, or the window/dash position, IDK. Comanche's are awesome to me on paper, doing everything on paper that I want or need. Then I see one in person and I'm completely uninspired. I can't imagine owning a plane that doesn't inspire me, doesn't make me want to jump in it and fly.
 
tawood said:
That's nice of you to offer Ed. I don't know if you know Ron Keil (he's big in Michigan aviation circles on my side of the state) but he offered to take me up in his Comanche 250 as well. Thing is, I've already sat in a Comanche last fall, and although I didn't fly in it, I didn't care for it either. I was trying to buy a Bonanza 35 from Indy Air that ended up having too many problems in the pre-buy. While I was there, they had a Comanche for sale, and I got in it. It was weird, because even though I believe it was a little bigger than my Cherokee, it felt smaller. Maybe it was the bench seat in back, or the window/dash position, IDK. Comanche's are awesome to me on paper, doing everything on paper that I want or need. Then I see one in person and I'm completely uninspired. I can't imagine owning a plane that doesn't inspire me, doesn't make me want to jump in it and fly.
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The other thing I found out last year, is there are 2 different types of front seats. One sits lower, and another sits higher. I only found this out because I bought some adjustable seats from Texas Air Salvage, and after flying it for 11 years in one configuration the sight picture was suddenly completely different, with the replacement seats. Almost like I was in a different airplane.
 
tawood said:
Then I see one in person and I'm completely uninspired. I can't imagine owning a plane that doesn't inspire me, doesn't make me want to jump in it and fly.
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Well what inspires you then? Nothing we say is going to change what makes you enjoy and feel proud of aviation.
 
Hey Tim, it's not that you don't know somebody with a Mooney, right!? These guys might even live pretty close to you.... :rolleyes:

If you don't like the sitting position, a Mooney might indeed not be for you. Personally, I don't like the high panels of the F and newer models. E and older feel much more open and the visibility is also better, due to their lower panels. We have an E:
IMG_5111.JPG

The way you described the handling doesn't sound right. While ours isn't exactly light on the controls, they aren't heavy either and very precise.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
Do you stand in long lines to get the newest iphone for each iphone when they come out?

Just curious.
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Actually no. I loathe iProducts and my phone is from 2017.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
Well what inspires you then? Nothing we say is going to change what makes you enjoy and feel proud of aviation.
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To me (again, just personal opinion) I think the best looking airplane out there is a Commander. They're beautiful. But from what I've read, a 112 hauls about like my cherokee 140 did: two people, maybe a third if it is a small child. And like I said, a 114 in the condition I'd like is probably going to be more than I want to spend. Beech 35, 33, 36, also very nice, and they seem to do it all...but again I'm not sure I would be happy with a Beech in my price range. I'd like to get my "last plane", as it seems like I've spent my 25-year flying venture constantly upgrading or searching for a better fit.
 
tawood said:
best looking airplane out there is a Commander
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I guess it depends on what is most important to you.. comfort, looks, speed, etc. Many of those will be subjective. I lusted after a Mooney (J) for a long time but I just don't find them comfortable. Some do, and that's fine. The Commander is generally a much slower plane. But I agree, they look awesome and feel great inside. Mooney E feel a little bigger inside (to me at least).

I think you should give the Comanche another shake though.. they're really nice flying and traveling planes. We had a good one in the club for a while.. the climb rate and cruise speed were otherworldly and the cabin was comfortable too
 
Go sit in a bunch of other planes. Save a tad more $ and look for a G2 SR22. WAAAY more comfortable and fun to fly.
 
SethV said:
Go sit in a bunch of other planes. Save a tad more $ and look for a G2 SR22. WAAAY more comfortable and fun to fly.
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IIRC, Tim likes going into some grass strips that you're gonna have cracked wheel pants on a Cirrus if you go in there.
 
I hop in and out of my mooney like it's nothing. but it wasn't like that the first time or two. watching new pax try to get in and out is pretty funny, but the one's who've been flying with me regularly hop in and out no prob now. when I took my hell ride in a cirrus at rough river, I couldn't get out of the flippin thing. I was laughed at. I'll bet after a couple more times it would be no prob. the one time I hopped in a deb, my head was scrunched up against the roof. I'll bet a few more times in the plane and I could find a comfortable position. I flew in a baron recently and also was scrunched, I thought there'd be more room. but after a while I found the comfort zone. I flew cherokees and all sorts of pipers during and after training.........now when I get back in one I can't believe how tight they are (minus the lance). also, I flew in a 172 once...................once.
 
EdFred said:
IIRC, Tim likes going into some grass strips that you're gonna have cracked wheel pants on a Cirrus if you go in there.
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That's probably the biggest bummer with the Cirrus, those things aren't cheap, then you have to paint them.
 
eman1200 said:
I hop in and out of my mooney like it's nothing. but it wasn't like that the first time or two. watching new pax try to get in and out is pretty funny, but the one's who've been flying with me regularly hop in and out no prob now. when I took my hell ride in a cirrus at rough river, I couldn't get out of the flippin thing. I was laughed at. I'll bet after a couple more times it would be no prob. the one time I hopped in a deb, my head was scrunched up against the roof. I'll bet a few more times in the plane and I could find a comfortable position. I flew in a baron recently and also was scrunched, I thought there'd be more room. but after a while I found the comfort zone. I flew cherokees and all sorts of pipers during and after training.........now when I get back in one I can't believe how tight they are (minus the lance). also, I flew in a 172 once...................once.
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Knowing you can use the center CrMo frame tube as a hand hold is half the battle.
 
steingar said:
Funny, the first time I sat in a Mooney I KNEW it was the airplane for me. The only one I don't need a damn pillow to see over the nose. Still the most economical complex to own and operate, and the biggest bang for your buck in GA.
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The first time you sat in a Mooney, WE knew it was the plane for you (and everyone else) because you haven’t stop telling us since. :)
 
Honestly sounds like a Commander 114A is a perfect fit, with a TB20 or PA24 being another good option (if you can stifle your vomit on the looks, lol). The Bo is another good option, but I doubt you find one for your price range. I think the Commander 112 will be too limiting on payload since you wanted to occasionally take 4 full sized adults. A 182RG would probably be a good option, but again, price. What are C210's going for these days? Maybe a bit more utility than you need, but the speed is there and it wouldn't have any problem with grass strips.
 
Tantalum said:
I guess it depends on what is most important to you.. comfort, looks, speed, etc. Many of those will be subjective. I lusted after a Mooney (J) for a long time but I just don't find them comfortable. Some do, and that's fine. The Commander is generally a much slower plane. But I agree, they look awesome and feel great inside. Mooney E feel a little bigger inside (to me at least).

I think you should give the Comanche another shake though.. they're really nice flying and traveling planes. We had a good one in the club for a while.. the climb rate and cruise speed were otherworldly and the cabin was comfortable too
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I really want to like a Comanche: they're awesome performers, and they seem to be decently priced. I can't put my finger on the looks though, but they just seem, IDK, words come to mind that I think would just **** off comanche owners so I'll leave them unsaid. The ones with tip tanks do look better to me....but it seems like the tip tanks are rare.
 
SoonerAviator said:
Honestly sounds like a Commander 114A is a perfect fit, with a TB20 or PA24 being another good option (if you can stifle your vomit on the looks, lol). The Bo is another good option, but I doubt you find one for your price range. I think the Commander 112 will be too limiting on payload since you wanted to occasionally take 4 full sized adults. A 182RG would probably be a good option, but again, price. What are C210's going for these days? Maybe a bit more utility than you need, but the speed is there and it wouldn't have any problem with grass strips.
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TB20...there's another one I hadn't thought of...how are getting parts for those?
 
Silvaire said:
For cripes sake you're not gonna "get" a Mooney in an hour or two and frankly you have no business drawing so many conclusions without living with one and giving it a fair chance. All airplanes are different and have their own individual character. You felt claustrophobic? Hey, Bob Hoover got sick the first time he went flying. Try adapting to a new environment.
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I don't even need to sit in some chairs to know they're not going to work for me.

For example, George Clooney's from Burn After Reading. I don't need two hours in the saddle to "Nope" outta there. :D
 
schmookeeg said:
I don't even need to sit in some chairs to know they're not going to work for me.

For example, George Clooney's from Burn After Reading. I don't need two hours in the saddle to "Nope" outta there.
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Yeah, I found his statement funny...like someone saying, "You're not gonna "get" prison in an hour"....lol
 
You either love or hate a Mooney. My guess is that I'd be very happy with an Acclaim or Ovation, but pressurization and real radar in a twin starts becoming much more of a priority.

FastEddieB said:
As far as the Arrow goes, it’s revealing to look at its performance compared to a Tiger. The Arrow has the advantage - albeit the added complexity - of retractable gear, has 20 more hp, and a constant speed prop. Yet they both go about the same speed at cruise - typically 130-140kts. Roy LoPresti was quite gifted in the aerodynamics department. Combined with the sliding canopy and light handling, I’d go with the Grumman every time.
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I chase down Arrows all day long in the Tiger. It's no contest, and the price difference reflects that.

tawood said:
TB20...there's another one I hadn't thought of...how are getting parts for those?
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Daher supports them.
 
tawood said:
TB20...there's another one I hadn't thought of...how are getting parts for those?
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No experience personally, but I'd imagine it's about the same as the Commander. They were still making the TB-20 into the '00s, but recession pretty much killed it off. Socata is still in existence, so I'm sure parts are attainable, but long wait times for the rare items.

Here's a decent article on them. https://www.avweb.com/ownership/socata-tb-20-21-trinidad-2/
 
I love this thread. Some more ideas for threads like this:

I thought I wanted a high-wing.
I thought I wanted to use track-up.
I thought I wanted to get Garmin Pilot instead of Foreflight.
I thought I didn't want to get a Bo.
 
German guy said:
Hey Tim, it's not that you don't know somebody with a Mooney, right!? These guys might even live pretty close to you.... :rolleyes:

If you don't like the sitting position, a Mooney might indeed not be for you. Personally, I don't like the high panels of the F and newer models. E and older feel much more open and the visibility is also better, due to their lower panels.
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The long bodies instrument panels are much higher, can fit 3 3” holes vertically with room to spare, the mid bodies are somewhere in between, when they went to the standard 6 pack.
 
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