I ran the numbers and ...

FIRE, hmmmm, I like it. I've been retired a while, got out, thought I'd get back in, but haven't found anything worth it. I really dislike working for others and starting something on your own, if successful, really binds you in and is tough to extricate yourself. As far as retirement? Trust me, things fill your time. On the other hand, I have heard of others in situations like mine who have done themselves in, I can't understand it, but it can happen. If work defines you, then you should make careful consideration. Work didn't define me, neither did the pursuit of money.
 
cgrab said:
I'll add to Denverpilot by saying that when talking about how much "income" you need, look at the take home amount. In retirement, you will not be paying several things like SS tax, Medicare tax or even paying into your retirement plan. If you can match your take home with the three stools of retirement-pension, social security, and savings withdrawals-then you should be OK. The retirement and SS will be there "forever," the key is to make sure your savings can withstand whatever you determine to be the required withdrawal for as long as you expect to live.

At this point I need to add that you take this advise at your own risk and it is worth what you paid for it.
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Well, if you're lucky they will be. Your pension fund could be one those that are grossly underfunded or one the politicians have ripped off for other sundry uses. Regarding savings, don't count on using them to cover monthly expenses. You may outlast them and in the long run inadvertently end up in the poor house and be a burden on your kids. You are going to have to make changes in your lifestyle like it or not.
 
cgrab said:
I'll add to Denverpilot by saying that when talking about how much "income" you need, look at the take home amount. In retirement, you will not be paying several things like SS tax, Medicare tax or even paying into your retirement plan.
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No $41T!.. I could live nicely, retired, on what is taken from my pay.
 
Half Fast said:
Yeah, I've been running those numbers for a while, hoping to get out in a couple more years. The difficulty I have is figuring out how long I'm going to live, and I can't get my wife to tell me.
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Go make her really mad, and she'll give you a short date that you can use to justify retiring early! LOL!

Half Fast said:
It's a bit of a crap shoot in any case. No one can predict the future well enough to make an accurate plan, so you just have to remain flexible and be prepared to make adjustments as you go.
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That's what my dad did when he walked from a solid six figure sales director job at 53 because he decided the fun to dollar ratio wasn't there anymore. Made BIG adjustments in lifestyle. And once he made those sorts of decisions, he was happy with them.

I was almost amazed at how little money he was living on, with everything he owned paid off, various insurance policies done right, and very specific "fun" budget for the things he TRULY loved doing that he would never give up doing.

He had no idea he would be dead at 61. Literally one month before his Social Security checks started arriving. But he had a blast for 8 years. He really did.

Sometimes it's not about the money. Sometimes it's about living. Yeah, he had a wicked tight budget and grabbed a part time sales job he worked for a few years in "retirement", but the job was selling stuff he used in one of his hobbies, people liked talking to the old guy who actually used the stuff, and he got a serious employee discount to buy more stuff for that hobby. Perfect setup.

My hobbies are a hell of a lot more expensive than his. That's my only reason I'll probably have to work longer. Also one of the long term reasons I'm doing the CFI stuff now. By "retirement" I won't be a wet behind the ears CFI and I can get some of my flying "fix" by helping students learn.

Maybe I'll be ultra-stupid (ha!) and buy something I can teach in by then. But that's not on the radar yet.
 
Half Fast said:
Yeah, I've been running those numbers for a while, hoping to get out in a couple more years. The difficulty I have is figuring out how long I'm going to live, and I can't get my wife to tell me.

It's a bit of a crap shoot in any case. No one can predict the future well enough to make an accurate plan, so you just have to remain flexible and be prepared to make adjustments as you go. A single percentage point change in inflation or earnings can make the difference between going broke or dying with millions in the bank, if you don't adjust spending habits along the way. And who can guess what health care will look like in the future?

One of my best friends from college is a CFP and I had a chat with him last year. He said, "If you were one of my clients, I'd do a bunch of analysis, run several models with a bunch of different scenarios, give you a fancy report and a fancier bill. Truth is, I might as well be using a Ouija board when it comes to trying to tell someone what the financial situation looks like 30 years into the future."
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It is called a Monte Carlo analysis where they vary several variables simultaneously within certain bounds. They run probably a 1000 simulations, and then can tell you the probability of success in NOT running out of money by a certain age, which is typically 90. This is a typical type of analysis to understand variability of key parameters on performance. Used all the time in engineering uncertainty analysis.
 
Norman said:
Well, if you're lucky they will be. Your pension fund could be one those that are grossly underfunded or one the politicians have ripped off for other sundry uses. Regarding savings, don't count on using them to cover monthly expenses. You may outlast them and in the long run inadvertently end up in the poor house and be a burden on your kids. You are going to have to make changes in your lifestyle like it or not.
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Now I understand your choice of avitar!
 
cgrab said:
I'll add to Denverpilot by saying that when talking about how much "income" you need, look at the take home amount. In retirement, you will not be paying several things like SS tax, Medicare tax or even paying into your retirement plan. If you can match your take home with the three stools of retirement-pension, social security, and savings withdrawals-then you should be OK. The retirement and SS will be there "forever," the key is to make sure your savings can withstand whatever you determine to be the required withdrawal for as long as you expect to live.

At this point I need to add that you take this advise at your own risk and it is worth what you paid for it.
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Just be aware that unless it some sort of Govt pension, there's no guarantee the retirement will be there "forever". A friend of mine is retired Delta Captain and his pension more or less vanished when Delta changed the rules. The Pension Guarantee Agency, replaced a part of it but nowhere near what he had been getting. He's doing well because of his savings but he could be doing better.

Cheers
 
Rcmutz said:
It is called a Monte Carlo analysis where they vary several variables simultaneously within certain bounds. They run probably a 1000 simulations, and then can tell you the probability of success in NOT running out of money by a certain age, which is typically 90. This is a typical type of analysis to understand variability of key parameters on performance. Used all the time in engineering uncertainty analysis.
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Yes, I'm very familiar with MC analyses. I'm an engineer and I use them all the time. They're great for analyzing a circuit card's performance. But I'm not convinced they are reliable when politicians are involved and a new regulation or court ruling can stand everything on its head. MC sims work well when the statistical properties of all the variables are well understood, but who can understand Congress? :)
 
Norman said:
Well, if you're lucky they will be. Your pension fund could be one those that are grossly underfunded or one the politicians have ripped off for other sundry uses. Regarding savings, don't count on using them to cover monthly expenses. You may outlast them and in the long run inadvertently end up in the poor house and be a burden on your kids. You are going to have to make changes in your lifestyle like it or not.
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X3 Skier said:
Just be aware that unless it some sort of Govt pension, there's no guarantee the retirement will be there "forever". A friend of mine is retired Delta Captain and his pension more or less vanished when Delta changed the rules. The Pension Guarantee Agency, replaced a part of it but nowhere near what he had been getting. He's doing well because of his savings but he could be doing better.
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Thus the reason for the quotes around forever. One must run the numbers with a step down function at some time in the future such as loss of pension or a stock market drop.
 
cgrab said:
Thus the reason for the quotes around forever. One must run the numbers with a step down function at some time in the future such as loss of pension or a stock market drop.
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If you retire you should not have yourself in a position where a stock market drop will hurt you more than just a very little.
 
PaulS said:
If you retire you should not have yourself in a position where a stock market drop will hurt you more than just a very little.
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The time to bet the most is when you can afford to recover the most, i.e. while a steady source of reliable income is still present. While relying solely on investment returns is not the time to gamble, unless that is part of your plan and one can still weather the storm thru the worst case scenario.
 
PaulS said:
If you retire you should not have yourself in a position where a stock market drop will hurt you more than just a very little.
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The only way I can think of to do that would be to have enough retirement savings to buy an annuity large enough to cover your expenses, and allowing for inflation. That would be a very large sum of money and I don't think all that many people could save that much.
 
I'm not a fan of annuities. My point is that if you are retired and dependent on savings for income, you are long past trying to hit a home run or being at undue risk to the stock market. That doesn't mean get out of the stock market, but it does mean have a strategy to minimize the effect of the inevitable swings in the market.

I'm not the one to ask how exactly to do that, I hired someone to do that for me. I've been retired for a while, been through many swings and came out of each one whole and comfortable. I do know that we avoid risky stocks and I'm comfortable with a portfolio performance less than what say the S and P does...... in both directions.
 
PaulS said:
I'm not a fan of annuities. My point is that if you are retired and dependent on savings for income, you are long past trying to hit a home run or being at undue risk to the stock market. That doesn't mean get out of the stock market, but it does mean have a strategy to minimize the effect of the inevitable swings in the market.

I'm not the one to ask how exactly to do that, I hired someone to do that for me. I've been retired for a while, been through many swings and came out of each one whole and comfortable. I do know that we avoid risky stocks and I'm comfortable with a portfolio performance less than what say the S and P does...... in both directions.
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After thinking about this for a few minutes, what I'd do is to move some of the money into a diversified portfolio of regulated utility stocks. They tend to be less volatile and are more income focused, so you can use the dividends to live on. For the money you need in the immediate term, you'd want to keep that in money market funds or a bank account, for very short term either short term bonds or CDs, for medium term put the money in utility stocks, and for longer term in stock index funds.

Bonds are supposed to be a significant part of a retirement portfolio, but with the dismal return most are paying your money is depreciating.
 
Rcmutz said:
Now I understand your choice of avitar!
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No need to be insulting.

The avatar was the result of a joke when I was watching a friend perform some maintenance on his plane. He asked if I would sigh it off and my response was Sgt Schultz's famous quote.
 
Like some of you, I ran the numbers as well - and asked myself what the hell am I doing. So, May 18 is it for me - and now I will be able to say I am a recovering lawyer at age 61. Even thinking about turning in my bar licenses to prevent a relapse. I applied for a new job - being an active grandfather - and got 2 yes's and 1 no. Gotta work on that no.
 
Congrats Jumpmaster! A friend of mine was in the lawyer rat race and wanted to spend more time running his jump school in Virginia. He became a lawyer for a company and all he does is send out cease and desist letters in a 9-5 office. He loves it and has a couple thousand jumps to boot.
 
cgrab said:
Congrats Jumpmaster! A friend of mine was in the lawyer rat race and wanted to spend more time running his jump school in Virginia. He became a lawyer for a company and all he does is send out cease and desist letters in a 9-5 office. He loves it and has a couple thousand jumps to boot.
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Thanks. I announced my retirement just a few days ago and have had several calls already asking if I was willing to work some projects (I am in the nuclear industry). Maybe I will, especially if I can pay for my aviation habit!
 
Jumpmaster said:
Like some of you, I ran the numbers as well - and asked myself what the hell am I doing. So, May 18 is it for me - and now I will be able to say I am a recovering lawyer at age 61. Even thinking about turning in my bar licenses to prevent a relapse. I applied for a new job - being an active grandfather - and got 2 yes's and 1 no. Gotta work on that no.
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I'd keep that license, there is a lot of comfort having a plan b.
 
Jumpmaster said:
Thanks. I announced my retirement just a few days ago and have had several calls already asking if I was willing to work some projects (I am in the nuclear industry). Maybe I will, especially if I can pay for my aviation habit!
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Dr Strangelove? Yahoooooo!!!! Enjoy the ride down, It will be your last. :D No chute needed. :devil:
 
Timbeck2 said:
I envy those who get/got paid for something that they loved to do. I haven't found that niche yet. I retired in '06 after 24 years in the Air Force, I plan on retiring again from the Department of Defense in 4-5 years.
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Retired AF in '03, I figure maybe 3 more years on this DoD contract and I'm done.
Adding my CFI-A this year to my CFI-G just for some part time teaching opportunities in retirement.
 
Jumpmaster said:
Thanks. I announced my retirement just a few days ago and have had several calls already asking if I was willing to work some projects (I am in the nuclear industry). Maybe I will, especially if I can pay for my aviation habit!
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Your value in that project work has a half-life. The offers you get now are the result of your position in the industry, unless you take them up on it, they wont be around even 18 months from now.
 
A Pilatus looks like a blast to fly. No type rating needed right? I want pressurized and deice. And a taildragger for taildragger fun and short trips. That would be a good combo right? How much of his money have we spent so far?
 
jordane93 said:
Yea because working until you die is a way better option. Just because you retire, doesn't mean you become useless. There are plenty of things to do. If you choose to be stationary, that's your problem. If I can cut it financially, I'll definitely be retiring before the mandatory 65.
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don't worry, by the time you get there it will be 90! with the way the industry is moving, and the numbers I have seen, if you plan good, and don't have to many ex-wives, you will have it made long before 65. you should have many years in the left seat of a major with your age and the timing of your entry into the field.

bob
 
I consistently shock myself with how much I can accomplish when I put my mind to it.
Especially when I get off the computer, and/or quit complaining about how much I have to do, and how oppressed everyone else is making me.

ok.. HAVE to logout after that :)

Going on a 10 mile bike ride right now with 105 heat index.

Hot and sweaty and tough?... yes, but that will make me happy, because I am choosing for it to...

PS... If I'm not back in 2 hrs call 911
 
My original plan was to retire sometime between the first of next month when the house is paid off (mailed that check yesterday :D) and April of next year when I turn 66. Intel changed those plans. Fidelity (who ran their 401k program) had previously run the numbers and said I was good to retire at 65. In late 2013 they (Intel) called us in and told us that the facility in DuPont, WA was for sale and we had until date of sale + 6 months to move. It would take, they said, at least a year for it to sell. As it turned out, I had a meeting scheduled on-site that day with a Fidelity rep. So, I asked him to re-run the numbers for April 2015 (18 months out). He did and said, "You're still good". Sure gave me an attitude change. :p

Management was insistent that I move, in spite of the fact that they were leasing back some of the space in DuPont. I tried to get them to give me a cubicle in DuPont or let me work from home. Anywhere in the world with a high speed internet connection and you couldn't tell where I was, the work got done. 3rd level manager was insistent that none of his people were going to remain in DuPont. Let's see, move with a little over 2 years left on the mortgage, start a new one. Move to a state with a state income tax and no increase in pay to cover it. Not going to happen. So, I retired on June 1, 2015 at age 63 with a nice voluntary severance package. I'm still active in national and international standards committees and consult a little to help offset the travel expenses. But, go back to work full time? Not a chance. I wouldn't have time to work full time. Too many other things going on. And, a new employer would probably want me to move. Not going to happen.

Retirement is wonderful. Sure beats working for a living. :D:D
 
I used to work with a guy that had enough "points" to retire and get his full pension. He kept working, because he liked it. He told everyone, including his bosses, "Get me mad three times and I'm gone!" Every time his boss, or anyone else did something he didn't like, he'd say "That's ONE!" I dunno how long he kept that up before he finally did retire.

Now, I'm *almost* to the same point.
 
Stupid question but if ur socking away most of ur savings in a 401k, doesn't that make it hard to retire earlier than 65? I'm neither saving in a 401k nor planning on retiring early, I'm just counting on my good looks to carry me thru til death, but just figured I'd ask.
 
eman1200 said:
Stupid question but if ur socking away most of ur savings in a 401k, doesn't that make it hard to retire earlier than 65? I'm neither saving in a 401k nor planning on retiring early, I'm just counting on my good looks to carry me thru til death, but just figured I'd ask.
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You can withdraw without penalty at 59 1/2, but I think that, in general, it's better to withdraw from taxable investments first.
 
wanttaja said:
Got tapped to be lead engineer for my third satellite development program in ten years, and realized I just didn't want to go through it all again. Delivered the second set of spacecraft, helped my replacement set up the new program, and bowed out.
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Two months after this post, four-and-a-half months after I retired...and I'm back in.

Former boss called. They badly need someone who does the things I do in order to win a big follow-on contract for the new program. The young folks working that program are still good friends; if they win the next phase their careers are set. I'd written the proposal that won the original, so am feeling a bit responsible (e.g., "Baby Squirrel Rule").

A few good aspects:
1. I'm coming in as a consultant, so won't have to put up with much of the corporate Mickey Mouse.
2. The money is good. Gawd, but the money is good.
3. It's part time.
4. It's relatively short term.

#4 is important, because the very first day I went back, it slammed HARD into me why I'd left. Really regretted agreeing to come back, at that point. But...not lasting that long, and I'll be able to afford some nice toys guilt-free. AND I'll know better if they ask me again.

Ron Wanttaja

A man o' four-an'-twenty that 'asn't learned of a trade -
Beside "Reserve" agin' him - 'e'd better be never made.
I tried my luck for a quarter, an' that was enough for me,
An' I thought of 'Er Majesty's barricks, an' I thought I'd go an' see.

Back to the Army again, sergeant,
Back to the Army again.
'Tisn't my fault if I dress when I 'alt -
I'm back to the Army again!

- Rudyard Kipling, "Back to the Army Again"
 
Why am I seeing a lot of people who retired then cannot pay their bills with my business or other businesses in town; and some tell me they are desperate to find a job?
(one just took a job at the Dollar Store)
 
I learned a very valuable lesson from one of my bosses when I was 21. He told me find something you love doing and you'll never work another day in your life. I took that advice to heart and have never looked back. ;)
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Why am I seeing a lot of people who retired then cannot pay their bills with my business or other businesses in town; and some tell me they are desperate to find a job?
(one just took a job at the Dollar Store)
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They did not choose wisely?

Biggest obstacle for a lot of people is medical insurance premiums once you retire and before turning 65.
 
I know a few guys that really, really, want to retire - and probably can - except for the problem of how to pay for medical before they are Medicare eligible.
 
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