I love Barron Thomas

wabower said:
If that's true, why do all the sales and management books emphasize the relationship factor as a critical part of every element of business?
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Over the past 10 years I have seen this change dramatically as companies get bought out by conglomerates and are mandated to toe the new comany mantra - which seems to be *%&# the relationship, just get the lowest cost/highest profit.
 
SkyHog said:
At the point that he no longer has the ability to sell me the right airplane at the right price.

In business, personal feelings should never come into play.
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Sorry Nick - there are some people I simply wouldn't do business with. Why? Because I don't want to help them.

Example: Kenny.
 
There are lots of aircraft out there for sale cheap. One shouldn't need Barron Thomas or anyone else to score a good deal.
 
Richard said:
You still think I couldn't find a Cherokee 180 for $22? Is that the point you wish to emphasize?
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Not only a 180, but a *nice* one. Not a high time run-out.

"I'll find you a nice PA-28-180 for $22 and keep the rest"
 
SkyHog said:
In business, personal feelings should never come into play.
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I disagree there .. nobody will ever sell me anything without there being
a trusting relationship with the sales rep. When I'm buying software or
systems .. I'm also buying ongoing support and counting on a good
relationship with the company and those that work for them. You
have to sell yourself before you sell the product. If I don't like and trust
them .. it ain't gonna happen. Integrity is king.

RT
 
RogerT said:
I disagree there .. nobody will ever sell me anything without there being
a trusting relationship with the sales rep. When I'm buying software or
systems .. I'm also buying ongoing support and counting on a good
relationship with the company and those that work for them. You
have to sell yourself before you sell the product. If I don't like and trust
them .. it ain't gonna happen. Integrity is king.

RT
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I wouldn't buy a used airplane with the thought in mind that the seller would be supporting the airplane after it sold.

This is nothing more than a "He has what I want, I have what he wants" deal. No reason for me to lose out on a good deal because I disagree with the behavior of the seller.

To concede that would be to concede that power to the person you are avoiding.
 
Bob Noel said:
Not only a 180, but a *nice* one. Not a high time run-out.

"I'll find you a nice PA-28-180 for $22 and keep the rest"
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"High time runout" carries so many negative implications. Yet I know of auto, marine, and aviation engines which are well into what should be their sunset years and they keep purring away. Then it becomes a question of engine mortality. And with a certain level of maintenance, that supposed life limitiation is only a number adrift from reality.

When I heard my last plane fly away after I sold it I cringed. It sounded so sweet even though it was the original 1964 engine with 5585 TT and 1872 SMOH. Men more knowledgeable than me--it's how they made their living--pronounced that engine in superior health.

So the question comes back to simple expected mortality. Mfg flight test data, yada yada still is only a number. It took some time for the full meaning of that to penetrate into my bonehead.
 
Richard said:
"High time runout" carries so many negative implications. Yet I know of auto, marine, and aviation engines which are well into what should be their sunset years and they keep purring away. Then it becomes a question of engine mortality. And with a certain level of maintenance, that supposed life limitiation is only a number adrift from reality.

When I heard my last plane fly away after I sold it I cringed. It sounded so sweet even though it was the original 1964 engine with 5585 TT and 1872 SMOH. Men more knowledgeable than me--it's how they made their living--pronounced that engine in superior health.

So the question comes back to simple expected mortality. Mfg flight test data, yada yada still is only a number. It took some time for the full meaning of that to penetrate into my bonehead.
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Yeahbut there still is that NTSB report that had, "Cause: Engine beyond recommended overhaul time by nn calendar months." :crazy:
 
SkyHog said:
At the point that he no longer has the ability to sell me the right airplane at the right price.

In business, personal feelings should never come into play.
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That's a very Faustian reply Nick. So much so that I'd suggest you read the book.

Remember: "When you lie with dogs, you will rise with fleas". :yes:
 
No doubt, and when the product has been "commoditized" to the point that market differentiation is impossible, then price becomes the only factor in play. With the growth of on-line merchants, that trend may continue.

Even so, a significant percentage of goods and services are still bought based (to some extent) on relationships, reputation and referrals, including all of those for which I am the provider. I don't the underlying nature of those transactions is likely to change.

When (one bank card or cell-phone service is equally as bad as all the others, then all bets are off.
EdFred said:
Over the past 10 years I have seen this change dramatically as companies get bought out by conglomerates and are mandated to toe the new comany mantra - which seems to be *%&# the relationship, just get the lowest cost/highest profit.
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Is it ever worth it to buy an airplane with a high time close to overhaul engine?
 
If it's priced correctly it allows the buyer to decide what kind of overhaul to do. He gets to choose between field overhaul, factory overhaul or new engine.
 
BeRad said:
Is it ever worth it to buy an airplane with a high time close to overhaul engine?
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Sure is.

If you buy it with a high time engine you can drive down the purchase price and then when the plane is yours you get to make all the decision about how that engine is to be dealt with. Will you replace it, rebuild it to and to what tolerances are all your decisions. If you buy with a low time engine the guy who was getting ready to sell you an airplane made those decisions. Now ask yourself. If you are about to sell your plane would you be willing to spend on the best or just enough to get the engine into specs?
 
BeRad said:
Is it ever worth it to buy an airplane with a high time close to overhaul engine?
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Yes, Insure it for what the price would be to replace it, fly it until it's in it's death throws, and prang it just enough to total it when the engine finally goes. Take the insurance money and get a plane with a low time engine. :D
 
EdFred said:
Yes, Insure it for what the price would be to replace it, fly it until it's in it's death throws, and prang it just enough to total it when the engine finally goes. Take the insurance money and get a plane with a low time engine. :D
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I like your style, Dude.
 
BeRad said:
Is it ever worth it to buy an airplane with a high time close to overhaul engine?
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Yes! In fact, that's the best way IMHO. Why? Well, for example, our last engine on the 182 made it 951 hours past TBO. That's "free" time in terms of your engine reserve money. Just buy with the idea that you may have to get it overhauled next week (which isn't a bad idea even in lower-SMOH situations), and see what you can get out of it.
 
BeRad said:
Is it ever worth it to buy an airplane with a high time close to overhaul engine?
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It is. In fact, at the right price, it might be the BEST way to buy.

You get to make all the decisions regarding what to do,when to do it, how to do it. Overhaul, reman, new. Upgrade, STC, bigger better faster.
 
What happens if he doesn't pay? It doesn't sound like the Arizona Corporation Commission has any real statutory power. One would have to be pretty cognitively challenged to have anything to do with B.T. now. Of course, one would have had to have been somewhat clueless to have anything to do with him then. I'd heard really bad things all the way out here in the midwest.
 
steingar said:
What happens if he doesn't pay?
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Debtors prison ! Sheriff Arpaios tent-city.


They can garner the wage he doesn't pay himself or try to forfeit the house he lives in that is owned by a trust in his aunts name. Those kind of problem individuals tend to be pretty judgement proof. Unless the state has some way of dangling criminal prosecution over his head, there is probably not much they can do.

In a prior thread on the red board, Barron claimed that he paid back at least one of his securities customers.
 
weilke said:
Debtors prison ! Sheriff Arpaios tent-city.


They can garner the wage he doesn't pay himself or try to forfeit the house he lives in that is owned by a trust in his aunts name. Those kind of problem individuals tend to be pretty judgement proof. Unless the state has some way of dangling criminal prosecution over his head, there is probably not much they can do.

In a prior thread on the red board, Barron claimed that he paid back at least one of his securities customers.
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A Corporation Commission? I wasn't aware they had governmental powers. Silly me.
 
steingar said:
A Corporation Commission? I wasn't aware they had governmental powers. Silly me.
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I may be wrong, but I believe that they are in AZ what the secretary of state is in other jurisdictions.
 
In some states (of which I assume assume AZ is one) the securities law regulators are so named.

weilke said:
I may be wrong, but I believe that they are in AZ what the secretary of state is in other jurisdictions.
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Maybe next time he won't be so obvious about it.

12% guaranteed??
On short term investments??
Involving aircraft refurbs????

The more information you got, the more ludicrous it sounded. I saw those ads in TAP and my spidey senses went bonkers.

With all due respect to the borrowers, only a complete idiot would invest in such a thing. The "securities" failed to pass even the most basic smell test. Caveat emptor.
 
flyersfan31 said:
Maybe next time he won't be so obvious about it.

12% guaranteed??
On short term investments??
Involving aircraft refurbs????

The more information you got, the more ludicrous it sounded. I saw those ads in TAP and my spidey senses went bonkers.

With all due respect to the borrowers, only a complete idiot would invest in such a thing. The "securities" failed to pass even the most basic smell test. Caveat emptor.
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Not everyones BS detectors work the same, or as good. It may have been obvious to you, but others may not see his snake oil for what it was.
 
I agree that the borrowers appear to have come out much better than the lenders--at least so far.
flyersfan31 said:
Maybe next time he won't be so obvious about it.

12% guaranteed??
On short term investments??
Involving aircraft refurbs????

The more information you got, the more ludicrous it sounded. I saw those ads in TAP and my spidey senses went bonkers.

With all due respect to the borrowers, only a complete idiot would invest in such a thing. The "securities" failed to pass even the most basic smell test. Caveat emptor.
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Capt.Crash'n'Burn said:
Not everyones BS detectors work the same, or as good. It may have been obvious to you, but others may not see his snake oil for what it was.
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Ask yourself, does this sound like a free lunch?

If yes, then don't do it.

Some people are greedy. My grandfather was like that, and got duped left and right. I didn't inherit my spidey senses from that side of the family.
 
flyersfan31 said:
Ask yourself, does this sound like a free lunch?

If yes, then don't do it.
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On the surface, no, it just sounds like BT was flipping airplanes, just like people flip houses. There's money to be made if you work hard and spend the refurb money smart. The problem is that planes don't sell like hotcakes the way houses were 3 years ago.
 
Capt.Crash'n'Burn said:
On the surface, no, it just sounds like BT was flipping airplanes, just like people flip houses. There's money to be made if you work hard and spend the refurb money smart. The problem is that planes don't sell like hotcakes the way houses were 3 years ago.
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12%??? Guaranteed???? Short term??????? A junk bond wouldn't pay 12% guaranteed.
 
flyersfan31 said:
12%??? Guaranteed???? Short term??????? A junk bond wouldn't pay 12% guaranteed.
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Yeah, but you just don't know the right people to let you into the really good investments. For a small introduction fee, I'll be happy to introduce you to the right people.:thumbsup:
 
JeffDG said:
Yeah, but you just don't know the right people to let you into the really good investments. For a small introduction fee, I'll be happy to introduce you to the right people.:thumbsup:
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Bernie? How on earth do you have internet access from jail? :D
 
JeffDG said:
Yeah, but you just don't know the right people to let you into the really good investments. For a small introduction fee, I'll be happy to introduce you to the right people.:thumbsup:
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No need, I get emails from them all the time.
:D
 
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