I could have bought a Nice Cessna

I NEVER knew pools were that much trouble. I knew I didn't need one but now I see the whole story.

This forum is great
 
Pools are not that much trouble if you no how to maintain it. Spend a summer in AZ and you will be wishing for a pool. Without a Heat pump you can use your pool from Apr - Oct.

We looked into Solar. The Upfront cost are about the same as a Electric Heat Pump unit.

Agree Solar doesn't cost anything to run.
 
Nothing is 'free'. Don't forget the electricity to run the pump. I had a pool with passive solar out in CA. Put up six 4x10' panels, plumbed it all, aimed at the south, pretty good inclination to the sun and was all excited when I was done. Even bought one of those low speed pumps to slowly circulate the water.

The results were less than impressive. First of all, you don't need it from early June to late Sept. Pool stays plenty warm then. So, you're looking at shoulder season use from early May through mid Oct. The sun is lower in the sky, meaning the solar is less efficient, and even if it runs from 10-4 every day, that's six hours of pump use for a few degrees of temp rise.

All in all, it just didn't make economic or thermal sense when I was done with the job. About 8 years later, I was looking at a new roof, and once we got the panels down the roofer asked if I wanted them put back up and I just said no. Didn't use it much, so why bother?
 
evapilotaz said:
Someone said pool maintenance cost more than airplane maintenance.

How so????
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B.S.
When I got the house w/ the pool people told me that.

I buy a bag of salt about twice a year.

I shock it anytime I have 20 little kids in it.

I buy about 4 jugs of acid a year

This year was a bit more because I ignored it all winter.
I bet pool maintenance is 200-500 / year

Heck, a pool guy here is $35 every 2 weeks so $840 and you don't have to do any work or buy any chemicals.
 
I accidentally left my heater on once and the next day the pool was 101 degrees.
My gas bill was probably $15 more than normal.
 
As one who has done and/or paid for commercial pool maintenance for many years, I can sympathize with those who think they aren't worth the bother.

The previous owner of our current hotel let the pool chemistry get so out of whack that the concrete and marble coated sides were eaten away. The drains were not compliant with the new laws (that change randomly every few years). The depth markings had been made illegal by a new, randomly enacted law. The warning signs had lettering that had been made illegally too small by some new law.

On the very first day we were open, in 2010, I hired a crew to fix everything. They sandblasted the top 1/2" off, re-marbled the pool, installed two new drains, etc.

$10,000 later, the pool was ready. That was Day One.

Fast forward to 2013. We receive a summons to Federal court via certified mail. Surprise! We are being sued by a legless Iraqi war veteran who has discovered the pathway to riches. He sits in Minnesota, calls random hotels, asks if they have a pool, and then asks if they have a handicapped lift in the pool?

When the part-timer answering the phone answers with "Huh?", he thanks them, hangs up, and directs his attorney to sue the offending hotel for non-compliance under the Americans with Disabilities Act.

We were one of a batch of 79 hotels this fellow sued last fall. Even though he never set foot in Texas, and we are technically grandfathered under ADA, being an older property, we were advised by counsel to settle out of court, as fighting the suit -- even though we were right -- would potentially cost far more than installing the lift and settling out of court.

So, $13,000 later, I've got a pool lift that no one has ever used. Well, I catch drunks riding it once in a while, and kids like to use it as a diving board. (Remember those? Fun, weren't they? Sued out of existence, they were.)

The people who bought our old hotel in Iowa filled our fabulous pool in with dirt, rather than eff with this mess. This is happening all across the U.S, as this guy (and others like him) have created a veritable lawsuit industry.

Now, you're thinking, so what? "This doesn't impact me! My pool is private.". Well, that's what all the condo owners here thought, too, and guess what? They rent to the public, too -- and guess who is targeting them?

Edit: Hell, I didn't even get around to talking maintenance. Pool pumps, electrical work, chemicals, water bills, insurance, and labor are enormously expensive and a ton of work. I need a pool at my business here on the island, but I would never, ever have one at my home. I've never met anyone who owned a good sized in-ground pool who ever bought another home with same.
 
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Pool MX isn't more than plane MX at all. I figure all in all the pool probably costs us $1k/yr. Pump, chemicals, etc. The plane costs way more.

Yes, you need to run the pump for the solar to work, but in our case we aren't running the pump more than normal. We have a large number of panels, and it turned the pool from unusable into very comfortable. We also had someone else do the install, who sized it. The other part for me is that I have an objection to burning natural gas basically for the sake of burning it, so I won't use a gas heater. Y'all do what you want, though, the objection is for me personally. :)
 
Jay Honeck said:
As one who has done and/or paid for commercial pool maintenance for many years, I can sympathize with those who think they aren't worth the bother.

The previous owner of our current hotel let the pool chemistry get so out of whack that the concrete and marble coated sides were eaten away. The drains were not compliant with the new laws (that change randomly every few years). The depth markings had been made illegal by a new, randomly enacted law. The warning signs had lettering that had been made illegally too small by some new law.

On the very first day we were open, in 2010, I hired a crew to fix everything. They sandblasted the top 1/2" off, re-marbled the pool, installed two new drains, etc.

$10,000 later, the pool was ready. That was Day One.

Fast forward to 2013. We receive a summons to Federal court via certified mail. Surprise! We are being sued by a legless Iraqi war veteran who has discovered the pathway to riches. He sits in Minnesota, calls random hotels, asks if they have a pool, and then asks if they have a handicapped lift in the pool?

When the part-timer answering the phone answers with "Huh?", he thanks them, hangs up, and directs his attorney to sue the offending hotel for non-compliamce under the Americans with Disabilities Act.

We were one of a batch of 79 hotels this fellow sued last fall. Even though he never set foot in Texas, and we are technically grandfathered under ADA, being an older property, we were advised by counsel to settle out of court, as fighting the suit -- even though we were right -- would potentially cost far more than installing the lift and settling out of court.

So, $13,000 later, I've got a pool lift that no one has ever used. Well, I catch drunks riding it once in a while, and kids like to use it as a diving board. (Remember those? Fun, weren't they? Sued out of existence, they were.)

The people who bought our old hotel in Iowa filled our fabulous pool in with dirt, rather than eff with this mess. This is happening all across the U.S, as this guy (and others like him) have created a veritable lawsuit industry.

Now, you're thinking, so what? "This doesn't impact me! My pool is private.". Well, that's what all the condo owners here thought, too, and guess what? They rent to the public, too -- and guess who is targeting them?

Edit: Hell, I didn't even get around to talking maintenance. Pool pumps, electrical work, chemicals, water bills, insurance, and labor are enormously expensive and a ton of work. I need a pool at my business here on the island, but I would never, ever have one at my home. I've never met anyone who owned a good sized in-ground pool who ever bought another home with same.
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There are no 2 ways about it.
That guy is a dick
 
Jay Honeck said:
The people who bought our old hotel in Iowa filled our fabulous pool in with dirt, rather than eff with this mess.
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I know three people who have done the dirt fill thing recently. All were older pools, and when they got the estimates to refurb, they all threw in the towel.
 
I bought my first pool home in Sandy Eggo back in the early 80s. I've shopped for pool homes ever since. There are currently 4 houses in my inventory with pools. In fact, I'm fighting with a tenant right now because they let it go green and I have to go clean it. Meh - it's just going to add to their bill when they move out.

Commercially, I can see the down side. Lawsuits and insurance along with the maint has to be horrible. But - go to any resort area and you'll find a pool in every place.
 
My wife and I stayed in a fairly high end hotel in San Diego this past weekend.

It had a pretty extensive pool area but I do not recall a wheelchair lift.


How did they get away with it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
RalphInCA said:
My wife and I stayed in a fairly high end hotel in San Diego this past weekend.

It had a pretty extensive pool area but I do not recall a wheelchair lift.


How did they get away with it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

What is the name of the hotel? I need money for AvGas
 
RalphInCA said:
My wife and I stayed in a fairly high end hotel in San Diego this past weekend.

It had a pretty extensive pool area but I do not recall a wheelchair lift.


How did they get away with it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Large corporations have staff lawyers, when they get this kind of suit letter they just reply, 'bring it on'. The plaintiff knows that they have no chance, could be stuck with a finding of 'vexatious litigant' and forced to pay court and atty fees.

They go after the low hanging fruit like indie hotels. Of course, the atty that advise settling is in the wrong. A statement of countersuit and defend until death would have made them go away with nothing.
 
evapilotaz said:
The solar system I was looking at is solar tubes the water flows through. It runs off the main pump. No additional pump needed.
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Correct. I use the same pump I already had.
 
docmirror said:
Large corporations have staff lawyers, when they get this kind of suit letter they just reply, 'bring it on'. The plaintiff knows that they have no chance, could be stuck with a finding of 'vexatious litigant' and forced to pay court and atty fees.

They go after the low hanging fruit like indie hotels. Of course, the atty that advise settling is in the wrong. A statement of countersuit and defend until death would have made them go away with nothing.
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Heh. Sadly, untrue.

With ADA, there is no chance. No pool lift? Unless you can prove financial hardship (unlikely, especially in a large hotel property) or some other exemption, you are 100% guilty until you prove yourself innocent.

And, in fact, thanks to Congress, everyone without a pool lift IS guilty. There is no defense against this terrible law.

AFAIK, we were the smallest hotel of the 79 the guy sued.
 
I bet it was there with a cover or available stored somewhere. It sucks for the hotel owner. Of course, it sucks for the guy with his legs blown off too. It's clear that the only reason why Jay bought the lift was because of the suit. I remember a 60 minutes piece on the guy suing cities because they didn't have the curb cut out for a wheelchair.


RalphInCA said:
My wife and I stayed in a fairly high end hotel in San Diego this past weekend.

It had a pretty extensive pool area but I do not recall a wheelchair lift.


How did they get away with it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
 
Jay Honeck said:
Heh. Sadly, untrue.

With ADA, there is no chance. No pool lift? Unless you can prove financial hardship (unlikely, especially in a large hotel property) or some other exemption, you are 100% guilty until you prove yourself innocent.

And, in fact, thanks to Congress, everyone without a pool lift IS guilty. There is no defense against this terrible law.

AFAIK, we were the smallest hotel of the 79 the guy sued.
Click to expand...

I'd love to believe you, and it sounds like you know it better than I ever would. I stay in a lot of hotels. I mean a lot, and often. I've never, in all my years in all my visits seen any kind of pool lift equipment, or any place for the equipment to be used, connected, or stationed. Never. I'll ask at my next hotel about the lift, and see what they say.
 
docmirror said:
I'd love to believe you, and it sounds like you know it better than I ever would. I stay in a lot of hotels. I mean a lot, and often. I've never, in all my years in all my visits seen any kind of pool lift equipment, or any place for the equipment to be used, connected, or stationed. Never. I'll ask at my next hotel about the lift, and see what they say.
Click to expand...

They're everywhere, sitting unused under a cover. Some are mobile on wheels. Some are fixed at the edge of the pool.
 
docmirror said:
I'd love to believe you, and it sounds like you know it better than I ever would. I stay in a lot of hotels. I mean a lot, and often. I've never, in all my years in all my visits seen any kind of pool lift equipment, or any place for the equipment to be used, connected, or stationed. Never. I'll ask at my next hotel about the lift, and see what they say.
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The legless Iraqi war veteran can only sue so much...

The law is the law. It's terrible law, but if you were a Senator there was no upside to voting against it.
 
dell30rb said:
They're everywhere, sitting unused under a cover. Some are mobile on wheels. Some are fixed at the edge of the pool.
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Mobile handicapped lifts are now illegal. The lifts MUST be 100% available and operable by the handicapped person WITHOUT ASSISTANCE.

Even keeping covers on them is a gray area.
 
Hey guys, haven't been following too close since my gen 1 Nexus was so unreadable under canopy. Got relegated to the nightstand....
What are you canopy fliers having good luck with in theAndroid world?
Thanks!
 
Norman said:
Chain saw time. I had a large Oak near mine. Damned acorns looked sick in the pool. Chain saw fixed that.
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Screen room over the pool area is way better, also gives you bug free time around the pool.
 
jonnyjetprop said:
I'm seeing bids from 48-56k for a pool/spa/grotto, paver deck with matching thin pavers on the existing covered patio and a cage. Minor site work is required as the backyard isn't totally level. Off the top of my head, it's a 300 sq. ft. pool dug to 6 ft. at the deepest point. Orlando, FL area

My wife's hook into me is that she's saying that I can finally get a plane when the pool is finished. Off course, it will take some time to generate the funds :yikes:
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I see what completed pools are costing, I'm wondering about the price of Gunnite these days because I remember what it cost us to build a couple of pools over a decade ago on some rental properties a buddy owned, and it didn't cost near that to build them. I was just wondering how much the cost of materials has gone up.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Yep, absolutely right. In my case, I'm too cheap to pay someone to do that stuff, so I just curse it.

The other part is temperature. Ohio is a crappy place for a pool, even with the solar heaters. Texas, AZ, etc., very different story.

All that said, when it's in balance, looks pretty, and a good temperature to swim in, I do love it. I also wish I could sell the damn thing without selling the house.
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You could get an old 2M C-Band satellite dish (or bigger), cover it with hexagonal/pentagonal mirrors ala soccer ball, take a 2' Stainless mixing bowl and wrap a doubled up copper tubing coil (painted with BBQ Black) in it to pump pool water through and place it where the LNB goes, then hook up a Mead telescope tracker to the dish drives. It provides enough heat that it keeps my buddy's pool nice and warm through a St Louis winter using just one of those bubble wrap pool blankets. Caution, you need to hook a high temp cut out in to 'park' the dish off the sun, it can get so hot even in the winter that it will melt the focal coil. It didn't cost much at all to build it, a few hundred dollars, the dish was already there from prior TV. We were going to remove it one weekend when I thought about making a pool heater out of it. You can still find big dishes around available for nothing.
 
evapilotaz said:
The neighbors does not have a pool. Yea guess where the pool parties are going to be :(

A boat. I have one of those too.
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I have had several pool parties this year. Love em, will have one or two more before I close the pool for the season.
And just because the pool will be closed down, doesn't mean the grills or firepit will be. :stirpot:
Party on Arizona
 
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