I Am Converted

docmirror said:
Ectually, there are several planes that are as good as the RV. No disrespect intended to the fervent flock. It is a fine plane, but not the be-all, end-all of GA aircraft.
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Of course it is! It's the Nexus 7 of airplanes!

Just ask Jay!

:goofy: :D :rofl:
 
Jay Honeck said:
...I flew my plane on Monday, and it felt like I was trying to coax a freighter into port, by comparison....
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I'll have to remember that one :lol:

Call me an old geezer but I like all airplanes including the cantankerous hard to handle ones. Ask yourself what looks more impressive doing a roll after takeoff - an Extra or a Stearman?
 
Welcome to the darkside Jay.
If you are going to get that 8A, I would suggest you look into getting it a nosejob.
 
docmirror said:
You may be paranoid, but that doesn't mean I'm not after you! :lol::lol::lol:
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:D I had my tail kit three months before buying my Mooney. The kit then sat in my garage for 13 years! Finally sold it last year. Decided I like flying more than building...but still long to own an RV.
 
docmirror said:
Lifecycle of the RV convert:

Have a ride or two. Get 'converted'. Go to a few EAA mtgs. Visit with other builders and owners. Order the DVD from Vans. Order the tail kit. Start building. Order the next kit. Nearly finish the tail kit. Get distracted with flying. Push tail kit in corner. Unpack next kit, and stare at all the bits. Go fly something. Get the tail kit back out and look at all those clecos. Put it back in the corner. Wait two years. Take pics of tail kit and next boxes of bits. Put it on Barnstormers, advertising it as '80% completed, only needs a few details to fly!' Sell for a few bucks, and buy a Cherokee.
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That explains all those thousands of flying RV's!
 
LDJones said:
I like them, too....even hold a world speed record in one. But glass construction isn't for everyone. I know some guys that developed some significant health issues. At least with the RV you just need big boxes of band-aids! :)
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I heard at the meeting last night that RVs are made out of aluminum because of all of the beer cans generated by the building process. True? :dunno: :D
 
LDJones said:
Well, if you count tail kit sales to RVs flying you might find he's not too far off the mark! I'd guess its at least 2:1!
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You have to wonder how many of the unfinished aircraft are under construction? Start/completion numbers are a tough metric because there are 3 year projects and there are 20 year projects. They all look and fly the same once they are finished...
 
kyleb said:
You have to wonder how many of the unfinished aircraft are under construction? Start/completion numbers are a tough metric because there are 3 year projects and there are 20 year projects. They all look and fly the same once they are finished...
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I've heard there are 10 tail kits sold for every bird that flies, but like you said there are still a ton under construction. A lot of builders figure out home building is not for them. It is not for everyone, just like flying is not for everyone. But, with the right resources, dedication, and support, I submit most pilots can build an airplane.

There are a lot of women starting to build now also. There are several "women only" builds on going, which is very cool. Lots of couples build.

The RV-12 is an "easy" kit that lends itself to the shop class room. There are several projects flying, and being built in high schools and colleges in the country now. They help train future pilots, ATC personnel, A&P's, engineers. It is a great way to reach out to young people looking to do something other than play computer games.
 
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I applaud Van for the number of completions. It's my understanding that of the non-UL types the RVs have the best completion percent out there. I want to see them succeed cause every GA plane built is another convert to the shrinking population.

I've been looking at some EXP planes, and the RVs just aren't on my list because of the high prices they command. I just won't pay an extra $20k for any marginal improvement in stall speed, or an extra set of parts that will be avail. Homebuilt means just that. If an EXP plane has a cert engine and prop, pretty much everything else except TSO instruments and radios can be made in a shop.
 
I think Sonex has a good completion rate, comparable to Van's.
 
Sounds like a fun day, Jay!

Jay Honeck said:
I have been a pilot for almost 20 years, flying the usual assortment of single engined spam cans. I've owned Pipers and an Ercoupe, and flown rental Cessnas. I've got hours in a fairly wide variety of aircraft, from Cubs to Constellations.

But, oh, my goodness, I've never flown anything like the RV-8 I flew Sunday.

It is amazing what good engineering can produce. The controls are wonderfully harmonized and precise. Stability is comparable to a lawn dart -- point it "thataway" and it goes thataway, without wallow or wander.

Performance? Um, nothing comes close, per horsepower. We saw 200 mph with a 180 HP engine, and did a zoom climb at over 5000 feet per minute.

Want to do a roll? Why not? Want to carry folding chairs, a cooler, and two bags of clothes? It will do it.

Visibility? Unlimited. Comfort? I had more shoulder room than when I fly with another guy in my Pathfinder.

I believe Vans has designed the perfect single engine prop plane. I flew my plane on Monday, and it felt like I was trying to coax a freighter into port, by comparison.

I have been...converted. I now understand Geico's religious fervor.
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Yup, I keep an eye on Sonex as well. Monnett has a real winner in that simple, light, safe airframe. A lot of folks will poopoo the Aerovee engine from VW, but I've put a lot of hours on those engines, and they very rarely fail catastrophically. I flew one a few months ago, and it was a joy to fly, but a little noisy.
 
If Jay can afford RV-8, it's going to be a better airplane for him than Sonex. A Sonex with 120 hp cruises at 145 knots. Baggage capacity is nil. Fuel tanks are tiny. If I were a successful business owner like Jay, I would not waste my time looking at Sonexes. I just mentioned it here on a whim, since we were taking easy-to-build airplanes.
 
When is somebody going to design a two seat, side by side, aluminum and retractable speedster airplane kit? Basically a Glasair, or Lancair 360 made of aluminum. Why can't I have this? Why does it have to be pain in the ass fiberglass? :mad2:

I want a modern, two seat Mooney basically. Nobody sees fit to build it though.
 
Dav8or said:
When is somebody going to design a two seat, side by side, aluminum and retractable speedster airplane kit? Basically a Glasair, or Lancair 360 made of aluminum. Why can't I have this? Why does it have to be pain in the ass fiberglass? :mad2:

I want a modern, two seat Mooney basically. Nobody sees fit to build it though.
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How about a experimental Mooney with the spacious Beechcraft Sundowner cockpit and an Ercoupe spin proof tail? Now THAT would be something to see....
 
wsuffa said:
:D Did you do an overhead break?
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Strangely, no.

We instead did a high speed pass at 240 mph, 15' off the runway.

We called out "gophers on the runway" (I'm not making this up) so we went around.

At the end of the pavement we pulled up into a vertical, 5000 FPM climb.

At the top we rolled inverted, and then upright, heading back to the downwind. It was...amazing, especially when you consider that we had no more horsepower than a Skyhawk to play with...
 
docmirror said:
Lifecycle of the RV convert:

Have a ride or two. Get 'converted'. Go to a few EAA mtgs. Visit with other builders and owners. Order the DVD from Vans. Order the tail kit. Start building. Order the next kit. Nearly finish the tail kit. Get distracted with flying. Push tail kit in corner. Unpack next kit, and stare at all the bits. Go fly something. Get the tail kit back out and look at all those clecos. Put it back in the corner. Wait two years. Take pics of tail kit and next boxes of bits. Put it on Barnstormers, advertising it as '80% completed, only needs a few details to fly!' Sell for a few bucks, and buy a Cherokee.
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Nope, I have no desire to build. I am in the middle of rebuilding a hotel, I have ZERO time for building anything else.

I will be buying a completed aircraft.
 
Geico266 said:
Thanks Jay!

Wait until you hang out with RV aviators for a few years. ;)
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I have been a member of EAA for 30 years. I have hung out with RV aviators since the beginning. They are a great group, and represent the only sector of GA that is actually growing.
 
KeithASanford said:
How about a experimental Mooney with the spacious Beechcraft Sundowner cockpit and an Ercoupe spin proof tail? Now THAT would be something to see....
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Key word being "experimental." Not "kit"! You can build anything you can imagine (subject to the laws of physics). Just ask Burt Rutan!
 
LDJones said:
I like them, too....even hold a world speed record in one. But glass construction isn't for everyone. I know some guys that developed some significant health issues. At least with the RV you just need big boxes of band-aids! :)
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Ouch, that is true...

I, "accidentally" drilled a hole in my wife's finger last week working on our RV. She has made a point of showing me her finger quite frequently since then. It was her middle finger....
 
LDJones said:
I like them, too....even hold a world speed record in one. But glass construction isn't for everyone. I know some guys that developed some significant health issues. At least with the RV you just need big boxes of band-aids! :)
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This is how you are supposed to build it. My father built a Seawind.
 

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bluee said:
This is how you are supposed to build it. My father built a Seawind.
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Golly, doesn't that look like fun? Not!

I wish I had time to build. Maybe someday I will, but I'm not willing to waste any more of the limited time I've got left on this planet wearing a plastic suit and respirator. I've spent a significant portion of the last three years wearing a mask (doing Sheetrock), and I hope to never wear one again. (I am currently primer painting the last room I ever want to drywall. Yippee!)
 
docmirror said:
I applaud Van for the number of completions. It's my understanding that of the non-UL types the RVs have the best completion percent out there.
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According to one of their periodic reports, the seller of the Arion Lightning kit reports better than 50% completion rates and fairly rapid build times. It is definitely not an UL. According to the following newsletter between March '06 and June '09 they had delivered 78 kits and 42 were flying, giving a completion rate of about 54% and a build time for those 42 all under 3 years. (I think there are now over 150 flying.) Build time is given as roughly 600 hours.

http://www.flylightning.net/images/pdf/Newsletter%202-6%20Jun%2009.pdf
 
Jim Logajan said:
According to one of their periodic reports, the seller of the Arion Lightning kit reports better than 50% completion rates and fairly rapid build times. It is definitely not an UL. According to the following newsletter between March '06 and June '09 they had delivered 78 kits and 42 were flying, giving a completion rate of about 54% and a build time for those 42 all under 3 years. (I think there are now over 150 flying.) Build time is given as roughly 600 hours.

http://www.flylightning.net/images/pdf/Newsletter%202-6%20Jun%2009.pdf
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Informative newsletter. Especially about the static/fuel vapor issue.
 
Silvaire said:
Why on Earth would an RV6 need retractable gear?
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The RV-6 doesn't. Apparently it is perfect just as it is. However, the plane I want, one that is faster and more efficient than an RV-6, would need retractable gear.
 
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