Hypobaric altitude training

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Mtns2Skies

Final Approach
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Mtns2Skies
Anyone ever do the FAA's physiological course on hypoxia and do the chamber to simulate it? I'm interested in doing it but cannot find much info on it.
 
We had to complete recurrent training with a chamber ride every 3 years while in the Air Force.

I highly encourage every civil pilot to complete the course and ride. A current Class 3 medical certificate is required. Last I knew Beale AFB, CA also offered the course.
 
It is still required for anyone on flying status in the Air Force, but the number of available locations has shrunk. After so many years, the only requirement is the didactics rather than an actual chamber ride. It is useful to all, especially if they do the profile where they do the rapid decompression.
 
A restriction is must be older than 18, I am not. Would a parental note of consent allow me to bypass that?
 
You should contact the FAA and ask them for an age waiver. My guess in these days of concern regarding liability, I doubt you would be successful, but it's always worth asking.

The guy next to me in the chamber took off his mask at FL250 as a volunteer, and within seconds he was green and seizing. He could not gang load his regulator to save himself even when instructed and knowing what was happening. I still wonder how many brain cells he killed doing the demo.

The people who did the best at 18K were those that smoked, and those that were out of shape. Perhaps they were used to living with some hypoxia?

It is an extremely valuable experience for anyone who flies, but it strikes me unlikely that the FAA, or the Air Force, who runs the chambers, would ever allow an age waiver. Again, it's at least worth asking.
 
CAP may have gotten Cadets rides in the past. I'll ask around if they did and how...
 
Mtns2Skies said:
A restriction is must be older than 18, I am not. Would a parental note of consent allow me to bypass that?
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Ask, and take parent with you, perhaps? Or just wait until you turn 18 - it won't be long.

The training is useful, particularly because you'll learn what hypoxia feels like to you, or if you're one of the scary types who just shut "off" with know warning whatsoever.

We had one of those types on my ride. He's working through the exercise OK and then poof - just froze - lights were on but nobody home. His partner signaled and the PJ came an put his mask on for him and he came right back.

I get tingles in the hands and feet first.
 
TMetzinger said:
I get tingles in the hands and feet first.
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I always got hot flashes in my legs first. On one ride I tried to figure out my 2nd indication. Never did find out as I was quickly in La La Land. Big clue, pay attention to your first indicator!!

Just came back from a soaring vacation. 17,500MSL and paying close attention to the flow meter settings. My O2 meter showed normal readings at altitude.
 
From trips above 14K on the ground (Pikes Peak) and near that altitude in the airplane, as well as exertion at altitudes around 10-12K (skiing), my first indicator is tingly lips, gums, teeth and a numb face.

Last summer, crossing Hagerman Pass from KASE to KLXV I started to feel this way slightly during the (way less) than 30 minutes it takes above 12,500' to make the crossing. With a CFI on board who was also feeling the effects, I didn't dilly dally around up high after getting over to the other side. And I live at 6050' MSL.

I should have brought the O2, and that's what I learned amongst a whole bunch of other things that day. Better to have it along and be using it, than wish it were along and feeling a little "weird". Or having a headache later. Or any of the other symptoms of altitude sickness. I didn't have any that day, but I have before up in the rocks to the West, in the car.

Pattern altitude for fixed-wing aircraft is 10500 MSL at KLXV. You have to lose about 3000' of altitude in about 5 miles. It's a fun ending to the long slog up the KASE side. :)

And whoever thought publishing THIS was a good idea, has way bigger brass ones than I'll ever have:

http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/1106/09146G16.PDF

When the missed approach procedure starts with "Climb to 16000..." - wow. Just wow.

Anyone know anyone who has this approach in their logbook in actual? Insane.

Hagerman Pass (the marker is on the road... look slightly north of that for the power lines that cross over the top East-West, and KLXV is on the right to the East in this map) is here:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Hager...client=safari&geocode=FdwiVwIdMi-n-Q&t=h&z=12

You follow the power lines over the top of the pass, and end up over Turquoise Lake during the descent. Wind is almost always West to East, so significant turbulence and rotors can be found on the KLXV side in any winds at all.

Zoomed out a bit, KASE is visible on the left. The route is "down valley" to the northwest out of KASE until you have enough altitude to cross the ridgeline to the north, near Basalt, then backtrack along that ridge, now on the north side, shuttle climbing if necessary until you reach Hagerman Pass at just under 13,500 MSL.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Hager...client=safari&geocode=FdwiVwIdMi-n-Q&t=h&z=11

It's a hoot of a trip with a good mountain CFI. Corona Pass, 20V, KGWS, KASE, KLXV, Badger Mountain RCO.

It put a smile this big ... :D:D:D:D ... on my face.
 
That does sound like a good trip and I might have to try it next time I'm out that way. Last summer we went from Grand Co to LXV, then down the valley to Buena Vista for lunch. From there we returned by going over Tincup Pass then NW untill we hit I70. Took it east untill just south of GNB and bumped north agian.

Spent much of the trip at 15K on O2 because it let us take good pictures.
 
denverpilot said:
From trips above 14K on the ground (Pikes Peak) and near that altitude in the airplane, as well as exertion at altitudes around 10-12K (skiing), my first indicator is tingly lips, gums, teeth and a numb face.
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Well I live at 8,000 and am in pretty darn good shape (ski team, mountain bike team, and 16) I climb 14ers with no bodily effects other than getting out of breath sooner. Skiing I have never had issues with.
 
It's a great course. I did it in preparation for wave soaring. If I found a convenient place, I'd do it again. Everyone's reaction is a little different. That's why it's good to find out what your symptoms of hypoxia are. and other than real sherpas, everyone is really stupid with mask off at 25K. Oh yeah, real stupid.

Oh, and you can't do the chamber ride if you wear a beard.
 
denverpilot said:
From trips above 14K on the ground (Pikes Peak) and near that altitude in the airplane, as well as exertion at altitudes around 10-12K (skiing), my first indicator is tingly lips, gums, teeth and a numb face.
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This often happens to me when skiing, too, but because it's 25 deg out, not from altitude. :wink2:

And whoever thought publishing THIS was a good idea, has way bigger brass ones than I'll ever have:

http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/1106/09146G16.PDF

When the missed approach procedure starts with "Climb to 16000..." - wow. Just wow.
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I can make a guess at how the missed approach waypoints got named:

Pilot: "We're already 1000' past our service ceiling...how much higher do I have to climb?"

Co-pilot: "MORYU idiot, and fast! I'm TERROfied!!!"
 
LOL. Well TERRO is probably a reference to Mt. Antero, which is down that way and is one of our "13ers". (As compared to the "14ers".)
 
I really want to do something like this sometime. Do whats necessary to get that High Altitude endorsement.
 
AcroBoy said:
You should contact the FAA and ask them for an age waiver. My guess in these days of concern regarding liability, I doubt you would be successful, but it's always worth asking.
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I called and asked for a waiver, how long should I wait for a call back after a message with the FAA? I called Tuesday Morning
 
Maybe a bad suggestion but do you have a pilot buddy w non-pressurized turbo. Let them suck on O2 and take off your mask at 17k-18k
 
If you called anyone in a government agency, the last question should be to get the name of the person you are speaking with, followed by "when can I expect a response?" This makes them accountable.

I would follow up with an email, and this should be coming from your parents if you are a minor. This email should include stuff like your father is a US senator, a general in the Air Force, you are an eagle scout, etc. Your parents are supportive of your interest in a career in military aviation, and you will be attending a service academy or are the leader of your high school ROTC program, and your uncle won the medal of honor and had three air medals while flying combat over Iraq or Vietnam. Your other uncle is on the senate appropriations committee.

If all of these are true, you have a 50% chance of getting an answer, but it has to start with something in writing from your parents.
 
They called back 2 days later, lighten up ;). Apparently Peterson AFB is no longer under contract with the FAA to do that and due to liability they cannot allow an age waiver but oh well, one day I'll get this done.
 
Lance F said:
It's a great course. I did it in preparation for wave soaring. If I found a convenient place, I'd do it again. Everyone's reaction is a little different. That's why it's good to find out what your symptoms of hypoxia are. and other than real sherpas, everyone is really stupid with mask off at 25K. Oh yeah, real stupid.

Oh, and you can't do the chamber ride if you wear a beard.
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Well I'm out:(
 
Mtns2Skies said:
They called back 2 days later, lighten up ;). Apparently Peterson AFB is no longer under contract with the FAA to do that and due to liability they cannot allow an age waiver but oh well, one day I'll get this done.
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Offer's still open if you want me to ask around CAP. They'd usually go under the USAF so the FAA's contract is moot... but I have no idea if they've ever taken Cadets.
 
denverpilot said:
Offer's still open if you want me to ask around CAP. They'd usually go under the USAF so the FAA's contract is moot... but I have no idea if they've ever taken Cadets.
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If you could do that I'd be eternally greatful! I'd also like to take you up on your offer for a flight in your 182 if you'd so desire :)
 
Mtns2Skies said:
If you could do that I'd be eternally greatful! I'd also like to take you up on your offer for a flight in your 182 if you'd so desire :)
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Meeting is next week. Will ask around.

Planning for a flight this weekend. Probably Monday looking at the to-do list. Doug already has "dibs" on the right seat, and there's a chance Mrs. Denverpilot wants to come along, but the 182 will carry four for an adventure somewhere if you want.

Or we could schedule for another evening or weekend anytime - lately I've been trying to go after work and the t-storms have been kicking up most afternoons, then it settles down after dark.
 
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