HSI question

BigBadLou said:
If they told you: "you're tuned into the ILS27 localizer", you'd know which way the deflection goes. Here, you gotta infer it from the shading.
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You can also infer it from the presence of the marker beacons.
 
BigBadLou said:
Br-y-an, once you fly IFR enough and see enough ILS plates, you'll get used to the right side being shaded.
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Actually, once you fly enough IFR you don't even pay attention to it. You will review/brief the title to ensure it's the correct approach, but never look at the shading.

Just curious... at one point wasn't the back course filled in solid to help distinguish??
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I am more concerned with the "why" vs. the right answer.
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That is good, that is smart. Knowing the reasoning behind the answer is better than rote memorization of BS.

If it helps, in short, the HSI in localizer mode always shows deflection in relation to the arrow, nothing else. It doesn't care about how you spin it (which visually reverses the deflection if upside down, for example).
So always look at the arrow to reference the needle deflection.

In real life, you point the arrow to the loc course to indicate your approach course. You get vectored under 30-degree angle to intercept. That is a great visual reference and helps crab into wind etc. If your arrow is not pointing right/properly/correctly, it will be confusing. But if it is pointing correctly, it's very simple.
 
Kritchlow said:
Actually, once you fly enough IFR you don't even pay attention to it. You will review/brief the title to ensure it's the correct approach, but never look at the shading.
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Which is, I think, why so many pilot to get confused about the missed approach and/or Lindz departure at KASE.
 
dmspilot said:
You can also infer it from the presence of the marker beacons.
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True. I was being generic. Shading will always be there. Marker beacons not always.

Kritchlow said:
Just curious... at one point wasn't the back course filled in solid to help distinguish??
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Can't recall, been a while. I recall them being shaded and have the words "back course".
Now the best part is if they put in a back course LOC signal for you to fly outbound which means the shaded part is still on the right/right side. :D
Just look at the Aspen LOC approach. The remark next to the LOC signal for the missed is priceless. :)
 
MAKG1 said:
It sucks when you get this backwards when flying a backcourse. Of course, IRL, you pretty quickly realize that the needle reacts backwards from what you expect, and you can mentally note "reverse sensing" and then go on. But you'll have to disengage the autopilot, 'cause it will turn away from the selected course.
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It reads just fine if you set it appropriately, that is, the course arrow (the HSI equivalent of the OBS) must be set to the FRONT COURSE heading.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Which is, I think, why so many pilot to get confused about the missed approach and/or Lindz departure at KASE.
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That is confusing, but was designed to be easy. It was designed to be correct sensing, but so many people get balled up with outboaund on a back course that the intention failed and made it harder.
 
flyingron said:
It reads just fine if you set it appropriately, that is, the course arrow (the HSI equivalent of the OBS) must be set to the FRONT COURSE heading.
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That's usually true, but read the G1000 manual entry on the subject. G1000 expects you to set the course you are flying at all times, including backcourse.
 
flhrci said:
Why go to the trouble of placarding when the Cirrus automation will take the checkride for 6PC? LOL
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Think about that.

The airplane is happily toting 6PC for the ride, after he had be autocheckrided by the aircraft, and he doesn't have anything else to do except scratch his six and wonder if Cajun will 'like' his new satire video on landing a Cirrus while performing yoga meditation.

He stares at that HSI. It does funny things. The magenta line is just that, it is a line. There is a little aircraft. But in 6PC's case it isn't an aircraft. It is a small cast pewter iron. He always gets stuck with the small cast pewter iron icon and never the airplane icon.

Never mind that. Let's get back to the HSI. It inverts itself. It flips. The little aircraft symbol does funny things. The glide slope seems to come up from under as if perhaps the device was intended to have been mounted in a Navy SSBN, and not a Cirrus aircraft.

Or perhaps the fact that the Cirrus is actually underwater and floating to the surface is indicative to 6PC's fundamental misunderstanding of how ILS dynamics affect sensing. Including reverse sensing but those who say reverse sensing is a myth hide under their little aluminum foil hats and probably fly Gulfstreams and **** which are the commercial equivalent of Cirrus. A Cirrus will let you sleep in the cockpit, landing itself while receiving a hand job. A Gulfstream, however, will...

Let's not get in to that. Enough, already.

The fact of the matter is the Cirrus designers DELIBERATELY make the HSI presentation in Cirrus aircraft confusing, confounding, and downright mysterious for one simple reason.

Don't give the pilot a reason to attempt to actually fly the aircraft.

Airbus has already figured that out but they have more dollars than Cirrus does. Staring at that spinning HSI gives 6PC a real head trip. Is the plane spinning? Is it the Martinis? Are we actually questioning the system?

Questioning the system. HAL was questioned. Look what happened. Do you really want to go there.
 
The G1000 isn't an HSI then.
 
Don't overcomplicate it. The HSI can't reverse sense unless you force it to. In this instance the outer markers are indicating 27 is the front course. The CDI is dialed in to 9 thereby "reverse sensing". Bada boom bada bing
 
@SixPapaCharlie snuck a post into the student thread saying he passed his Instrument Written, so I'm gonna guess that he'll get some quality time looking at an HSI soon... :)
 
BigBadLou said:
Yes, right side of the localizer is always shaded. Some of us still remember the blue and yellow CDIs. (can't find a picture on Google now, booooo)
instrument_landing_system_afm_51-37_figure_16-2.png
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Yes, and I kind of depended on that information. Yellow-non shaded, blue-shaded, no exceptions. I can't figure out why they did away with the blue-yellow CDIs.

s-l225.jpg
 
kgruber said:
Yes, and I kind of depended on that information. Yellow-non shaded, blue-shaded, no exceptions. I can't figure out why they did away with the blue-yellow CDIs.

s-l225.jpg
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That CDI and the diagram don't match.
 
http://www.navfltsm.addr.com/ils.htm

that didn't either, at first.

But I wonder if it does makes sense if you think about it as the farther you get into the blue region (blue region on 3d diagram) you need to go back toward the LEFT (blue region on instrument).
 
Mistake Not... said:
http://www.navfltsm.addr.com/ils.htm

that didn't either, at first.

But I wonder if it does makes sense if you think about it as the farther you get into the blue region (blue region on 3d diagram) you need to go back toward the LEFT (blue region on instrument).
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Which is why they got rid of them... heh. But yep, that's correct. The needle was pointing to the color you were flying in. It mostly just confused folks. The "fly left" indication of the needle (for non-reverse sensing) was also the "you're flying on the right (shaded) side indication.

I never found it all that intuitive to FLY it with the colors, but it helped on the ground to show what the needle would do on a backcourse.
 
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