How-videos for rope tie down?

I use a bowline at the anchor and a Midshipman's hitch ever since Kevin Quinn with the Valdez boys at Osh showed me how to tie it, and why it's superior to what I was doing.

What a lot of people overlook is their ropes. Ropes have a mechanical purpose just like anything else. Good poly nylon ropes will hold strong where old brittle rope isn't worth spit. Keep your ropes new and they'll take care of you. :wink2:

I like to run the ropes through the wing tie downs with nothing. No clips, carabiners, or anything metal on metal. Let the rope do it's job.
 
In a wind strong enough to be concerned about I go around the strut and the tie ring. Around the strut takes the potential for the ring breaking out of the equation and through the ring holds the rope in position at the top of the strut.

As for why there should be no slack and why I refuse to use chains? In the wind the wing is trying to fly. As it lifts and reaches the end of a loose rope or chain the lift is abruptly stopped by the earth connection to the strut. All that force is directed to the strut-spar connection. Cub owners are aware of the potential for that connection to fail after being hammered by wind. No slack, no hammering. With chains it's almost impossible to get a tight line like is easy to do with a rope.

Earth anchor, rope, and knot all are important in securing a plane. At Lake Hood in the past 20 years there's been a change of earth anchors at least three times as we've experienced failures from corrosion. The current standard is the big screw-in anchors that power line poles use for guy line anchors. I replace ropes every few years since mine get used year-round and get weathered. I've never had one fail but they get stiff with age. My home ropes are attached to the earth anchors with steel shackles and remain there. My travel ropes use stainless steel carbiners and ride in the plane. I never use unfamiliar ropes.
 
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I would not recommend polypropylene lines, they have a lot of stretch to them, and knots don't like to stay in it. I use either AmSteel, Plasma Line, or Spectra Braid. Considering how little one needs, and how long it lasts, the price difference over polypro is inconsequential.
 
Spectra is the bee's knees
 
Stewartb said:
Good video. Sort of. Carry your own ropes. A friend's dad would still be alive had he not used chains to tie his Cub. Chains are bad.
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Interesting thought. If you fly out west here you'll have a hard time finding ropes anywhere. All the airports have chains.

I never really thought about it much until friends from the east and Midwest were complaining about it many years after I learned to fly (and use both tools).

It was also an eye opener to me to go east and find FBOs that you just pull up in front and they handle moving the aircraft and securing it. Almost none of that out here for anyone but the Jet crowd. You show up and find your own spot and tie it down yourself.

If you pull up out front, they might even show up with a red carpet and then ask you if you want gas, but the airplane will sit there untied while you go inside to pee, grab a Coke, grab lunch, whatever.
 
Oh... For the record if you're using carabiners for anything like this, make sure they're rated for the "weight" expected. I've seen airplanes with those cheap carabiners that people put on their keychains and just shook my head. Try hooking one of those to something solid and pull on the rope gently with something like tossing the rope over your trailer hitch on a vehicle. You'll be amazed at how easily they self destruct.

Good carabiners are found at sporting goods stores for mountain climbers. And even those may not survive the forces involved in an airplane pulling on them in windy conditions.
 
denverpilot said:
Interesting thought. If you fly out west here you'll have a hard time finding ropes anywhere. All the airports have chains.

I never really thought about it much until friends from the east and Midwest were complaining about it many years after I learned to fly (and use both tools).

It was also an eye opener to me to go east and find FBOs that you just pull up in front and they handle moving the aircraft and securing it. Almost none of that out here for anyone but the Jet crowd. You show up and find your own spot and tie it down yourself.

If you pull up out front, they might even show up with a red carpet and then ask you if you want gas, but the airplane will sit there untied while you go inside to pee, grab a Coke, grab lunch, whatever.
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I've found quite a variety of tie-down options in my travels. I've carried ratchet straps since I've owned a plane because of the variety.

Few places with chains do them right. Doing them right includes links large enough to pass another link through and then anchoring the ground end of the chain to long stretches of wire rope which is anchored to the ground. The wire rope is arranged parallel to the aircraft row and acts as a tensioning spring when the aircraft is tied down.

Ropes are a total crapshoot so I almost never use the ones which have been laying in the weather for who knows how long. I don't even like taxiing over them and either shut down the engine early and coast or just stop short and push the aircraft into final position.
 
Clark1961 said:
I've found quite a variety of tie-down options in my travels. I've carried ratchet straps since I've owned a plane because of the variety.

Few places with chains do them right. Doing them right includes links large enough to pass another link through and then anchoring the ground end of the chain to long stretches of wire rope which is anchored to the ground. The wire rope is arranged parallel to the aircraft row and acts as a tensioning spring when the aircraft is tied down.

Ropes are a total crapshoot so I almost never use the ones which have been laying in the weather for who knows how long. I don't even like taxiing over them and either shut down the engine early and coast or just stop short and push the aircraft into final position.
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It's amazing the damage that picking up a line in the prop can do.
 
txflyer said:
I like to run the ropes through the wing tie downs with nothing. No clips, carabiners, or anything metal on metal. Let the rope do it's job.
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I use carabiners, but I'm not thrilled about it. The combination jack points / tie down points that are currently installed on my mooney have a relatively sharp cornered hole for the rope to pass through. After I noticed the rope getting worn after tying down one day, I bought some climbing carabiners (not the "clip stuff to your backpack" junk) and have been clipping the 'biners to the tie downs, then sliding the rope through those.

The only issue I see is that the small radius of the carabiner could put a lot more stress on the tie down point than the rope would. But the metal is sharp enough to almost cut the rope, so....
 
Henning said:
I would not recommend polypropylene lines, they have a lot of stretch to them, and knots don't like to stay in it. I use either AmSteel, Plasma Line, or Spectra Braid. Considering how little one needs, and how long it lasts, the price difference over polypro is inconsequential.
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Not disagreeing, but I did some research just after buying the plane (well, if an hour of googling counts as research). I found several references to type of line for aircraft tiedown use. The prevailing opinion seemed to be that spectra et al would be too stiff and not provide sufficient shock absorption. Braided nylon seemed to be recommended most often.

https://www.eaa.org/en/airventure/eaa-fly-in-flying-to-oshkosh/ground-operations/tying-down-aircraft

You've actually used Spectra... does it have any "give" to it?
 
Oh, and one more thing... I bought 12' lengths of rope for my tie downs and wish I had 15' (each). Sounds like a lot, but by the time you tie a decent knot to anchor the rope to the ramp attach point (whatever it is), run it up to the tie down point and back through and then tie a couple of the (whatevertheknotisthatisalwaysusedfortiedownsandnothingelse)knots, you're getting short of rope. Seems like there's no standard for how far about the tie down anchors are, either.
 
Mistake Not... said:
Not disagreeing, but I did some research just after buying the plane (well, if an hour of googling counts as research). I found several references to type of line for aircraft tiedown use. The prevailing opinion seemed to be that spectra et al would be too stiff and not provide sufficient shock absorption. Braided nylon seemed to be recommended most often.

https://www.eaa.org/en/airventure/eaa-fly-in-flying-to-oshkosh/ground-operations/tying-down-aircraft

You've actually used Spectra... does it have any "give" to it?
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No, there is no give to Spectra and I don't want any, I don't want enough motion to have to absorb shock. Polypro only has a limited capacity to absorb shock then it's stretched into a hard line as well with about 1/3rd of the strength as new. The only time I use polypro is when towing large tenders behind yachts where I don't have a pro towing crew because it floats so won't get into the prop and hurt someone.

Lots of ramps will have black polypro because of the resistance to UV and the fact that you can buy a 600' spool for cheap.
 
Mistake Not... said:
I use carabiners, but I'm not thrilled about it. The combination jack points / tie down points that are currently installed on my mooney have a relatively sharp cornered hole for the rope to pass through. After I noticed the rope getting worn after tying down one day, I bought some climbing carabiners (not the "clip stuff to your backpack" junk) and have been clipping the 'biners to the tie downs, then sliding the rope through those.

The only issue I see is that the small radius of the carabiner could put a lot more stress on the tie down point than the rope would. But the metal is sharp enough to almost cut the rope, so....
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You could take a file and smooth out the edges of the rings a little I would think.

I prefer only the rope through mine so there is no metal on metal contact. Experience teaches me anytime you have metal on metal and movement, you're going to get wear. I'd rather have the rope wear, that's it's job and it's a lot easier to just buy new rope. :)
 
txflyer said:
You could take a file and smooth out the edges of the rings a little I would think.

I prefer only the rope through mine so there is no metal on metal contact. Experience teaches me anytime you have metal on metal and movement, you're going to get wear. I'd rather have the rope wear, that's it's job and it's a lot easier to just buy new rope. :)
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Yep, and loop it through twice and it takes a lot longer to wear since the chafe is spread through the entire loop.
 
Henning said:
Yep, and loop it through twice and it takes a lot longer to wear since the chafe is spread through the entire loop.
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What would be neat is if you could rubber dip coat or cover the lower portion of the rings with brass or something. I don't know how it would hold up, but it crossed my mind.
 
txflyer said:
What would be neat is if you could rubber dip coat or cover the lower portion of the rings with brass or something. I don't know how it would hold up, but it crossed my mind.
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Leather sleeves is what most boats use for chafe protection. You can call these guys up and get whatever line and chafe sleeves you want. If you want to be really cool, you sew the sleeve around your tie down rings.;)

http://www.riggingandsails.com
 
Henning said:
Leather sleeves is what most boats use for chafe protection. You can call these guys up and get whatever line and chafe sleeves you want. If you want to be really cool, you sew the sleeve around your tie down rings.;)

http://www.riggingandsails.com
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I know there's some stuff you can dip old pliers handles into and it will rubberized them.

I'm thinking about trying that if it checks out on MSDS and won't corrode the metal worse than leaving it alone.
 
txflyer said:
I know there's some stuff you can dip old pliers handles into and it will rubberized them.

I'm thinking about trying that if it checks out on MSDS and won't corrode the metal worse than leaving it alone.
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Tool dip lasts approximately 10 minutes before it is chafed through, been tried. Leather is the best thing. For large lines we use sections of old fire hose on work boats.
 
Clark1961 said:
Few places with chains do them right. Doing them right includes links large enough to pass another link through and then anchoring the ground end of the chain to long stretches of wire rope which is anchored to the ground. The wire rope is arranged parallel to the aircraft row and acts as a tensioning spring when the aircraft is tied down.
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Agreed. Although how many people know you're supposed to lift them with your foot to tension them as you attach the chain?

I've seen the whole line of airplanes on the East Ramp at APA with the cable lying useless on the ground and the chains attached with slack...

Ruins the whole point of putting down the cable to hook the chains to...

Beat head here.
 
Mistake Not... said:
I use carabiners, but I'm not thrilled about it. The combination jack points / tie down points that are currently installed on my mooney have a relatively sharp cornered hole for the rope to pass through. After I noticed the rope getting worn after tying down one day, I bought some climbing carabiners (not the "clip stuff to your backpack" junk) and have been clipping the 'biners to the tie downs, then sliding the rope through those.

The only issue I see is that the small radius of the carabiner could put a lot more stress on the tie down point than the rope would. But the metal is sharp enough to almost cut the rope, so....
Click to expand...

txflyer said:
You could take a file and smooth out the edges of the rings a little I would think. I prefer only the rope through mine so there is no metal on metal contact. Experience teaches me anytime you have metal on metal and movement, you're going to get wear. I'd rather have the rope wear, that's it's job and it's a lot easier to just buy new rope. :)
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This is what he is dealing with. I have them too. They are aftermarket tie downs made by LASAR, a Mooney mod company as well as service center. They were conceived, designed and manufactured in California. We have no weather here. There are chain tie downs everywhere you go here.

My suggestion to Mistake Not, or anyone else with a Mooney that has these and are worried about tying down in a hurricane, or tornado, or whatever is, go back the the factory tie down rings. It's super easy to change back. The LASAR rings are only good in California, or any other parts of the world that might not have any weather to speak of.

mod-27-28_lg.jpg
 
Dav8or said:
This is what he is dealing with. I have them too. They are aftermarket tie downs made by LASAR, a Mooney mod company as well as service center. They were conceived, designed and manufactured in California. We have no weather here. There are chain tie downs everywhere you go here.

My suggestion to Mistake Not, or anyone else with a Mooney that has these and are worried about tying down in a hurricane, or tornado, or whatever is, go back the the factory tie down rings. It's super easy to change back. The LASAR rings are only good in California, or any other parts of the world that might not have any weather to speak of.

mod-27-28_lg.jpg
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That thing looks useful to open a beer bottle with, but not so great for tying down an airplane with. Hahaha.
 
Dav8or said:
This is what he is dealing with. I have them too.
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Thank you! I wasn't going to reply until I could get out to the plane and get a pic. That's it exactly. The tail tie down point isn't much better, but it's not quite as bad. Unfortunately, I don't think I have the original tie downs (didn't come with the plane). I need to find out how much they cost and replace what I have. Even if they were fine, it's still hard to get a rope through there.
 
Dav8or said:
This is what he is dealing with. I have them too. They are aftermarket tie downs made by LASAR, a Mooney mod company as well as service center. They were conceived, designed and manufactured in California. We have no weather here. There are chain tie downs everywhere you go here.

My suggestion to Mistake Not, or anyone else with a Mooney that has these and are worried about tying down in a hurricane, or tornado, or whatever is, go back the the factory tie down rings. It's super easy to change back. The LASAR rings are only good in California, or any other parts of the world that might not have any weather to speak of.

mod-27-28_lg.jpg
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That's the worst designed tie point I have ever seen.
 
I think my poh says something about removing the original tie points before flight (I guess they wanted to eliminate the drag). These were probably made low profile like that so they could be left on.

Yeah. They kinda suck.
 
Mistake Not... said:
I think my poh says something about removing the original tie points before flight (I guess they wanted to eliminate the drag). These were probably made low profile like that so they could be left on.

Yeah. They kinda suck.
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The factory rings are just basic eye bolts. Mooney does recommend removing them before flight, but nobody knows why. I guess they're afraid that they will unscrew and fall out. The truth is, people have been flying around with them screwed in for decades. I have never heard of anybody loosing any in flight.

You will have to remove them once a year at annual though. I'm OK with my LASAR tie downs. I never fly out of California and my plane lives in a hangar. If I do tie down somewhere, I use either the chains, or my ratchet straps. If I were to ever venture out into the big bad world of out of state weather, I will take the original style rings. Super easy to change out.
 
Dav8or said:
This is what he is dealing with. I have them too. They are aftermarket tie downs made by LASAR, a Mooney mod company as well as service center. They were conceived, designed and manufactured in California. We have no weather here. There are chain tie downs everywhere you go here.

My suggestion to Mistake Not, or anyone else with a Mooney that has these and are worried about tying down in a hurricane, or tornado, or whatever is, go back the the factory tie down rings. It's super easy to change back. The LASAR rings are only good in California, or any other parts of the world that might not have any weather to speak of.

mod-27-28_lg.jpg
Click to expand...





Good Lord I wouldn't tie my dog down with that.. :lol:
 
jhausch said:
I really like [the trucker's hitch]. I suppose if I was going to leave one tied permanently I might use a bowline for that "pulley" part of the knot.
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Yes, I think that would work well. Good idea. Alpine Butterfly would also work well in this application, and is easy to tie in the bight, is strong in all directions, and does not use up inordinate amounts of cordage.
 
Circuit Flyer said:
Yes, I think that would work well. Good idea. Alpine Butterfly would also work well in this application, and is easy to tie in the bight, is strong in all directions, and does not use up inordinate amounts of cordage.
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I use the trucker's hitch all the time. Literally almost every day. Not for my airplane, but get this... in trucks!! It's a great knot for tying down loads. However, I will say this, if you tie something down where there is going to be movement, like say an airplane wing bouncing in the wind, I highly recommend adding either another slipped not on top, or at least one half hitch on top of the slipped knot. My experience is, the Trucker's Knot when under tension and released tension, can come loose. The added knot will fix this.
 
Good to know your experience with the trucker's hitch. I've used it to lash stuff to the trailer hitch, but nothing under a serious load.
 
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