How to Verify ADS-B output

petrolero

petrolero

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petrolero
My avionics shop recently enabled output from my 1090ES transponder. I want to validate that it is working.

I located my Mode S code and was able to find my flight path in FlightRadar24 (good-bye, anonymity :-/ ) but I don't know if that data was created by radar sweeps or by ADS-B output of my GPS position as reported to ADS-B towers.

Is there a way to find my actual ADS-B output data in order to verify it? To complicate things, I have only done one flight with the box enabled and it was just a few landings and a quick turn around the practice area with no flight following.

I know it's possible to get ADS-B data from the FAA with prior arrangement but is there a way to find it after the fact with just my Mode S code or tail number?

Thanks
 
I don't know of anywhere online to see the ADS-B data.

After you make a few flights, email the FAA and ask them to check your output. They'll review their records and tell you if everything is set correctly and give you example output from your transponder. No prior arrangement is needed. I can dig up the email address if you can't find it on the FAA website.

edit: I see Pete has already provided the email
 
Send an email with N-number to 9-AWA-AFS-300-ADSB-AvionicsCheck@faa.gov and request a detailed report.

Include your ADS-B transmitter & GPS make/model to save a few emails if there are system performance issues.

I did it and got back a very detailed report.
 
Would one consider it working if a 1090es receiver on the ground detects your plane? I suppose one could use the receiver in another plane, or the Stratux receiver described in another thread. either way, you's probably need a friend with the other receiver to tell you "Tally ho" or "Negative contact"
 
vontresc said:
You can email the FAA (9-AWA-AFS-300-ADSB-AvionicsCheck@faa.gov) and they will give you a report on your ADS-B out performance

https://www.faa.gov/nextgen/programs/adsb/
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tsts4 said:
Send an email with N-number to 9-AWA-AFS-300-ADSB-AvionicsCheck@faa.gov and request a detailed report.

Include your ADS-B transmitter & GPS make/model to save a few emails if there are system performance issues.

I did it and got back a very detailed report.
Click to expand...

Email sent, thanks!

How long did it take to get a response?
 
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petrolero said:
Email sent, thanks!

How long did it take to get a response?
Click to expand...

I sent my request around 9:00pm and received the response w/report back by 7:30am the next morning. Fastest government work I've ever seen (and will probably ever see!)

-Andrew
 
I got a very fast response also. Strange looking email address, but good service.
 
Wait! So, like, the avionics guy doesn't / can't check ADS-B when the transponder check is done?

And, if I dump several thousand dollars into ADS-B out and it doesn't even freeking work, no one will know unless I email the FAA myself?

Really?

Why am I buying it?
 
After reading this last PM, sent request about 2000 EST and received the report this AM at 0645 with a nice note that said "everything looks good". They must work late in that office.
Report based on a flight last Friday. In my request I reported tail number, GDL88, G530W, Garmin transponder and they pulled up aircraft data, etc.
 
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Detailed report received at 0416 MST today with this... "Everything looks good."
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Why am I buying it?
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Beats me. You don't have to buy it for 5 more years and even then only if you want to fly where it's required. Buy it or don't.

But yes, the Avionics tech can test that the box is broadcasting the right lat/long. In fact, there is a way to cross check that in flight. But if you want to see how your signal was received by the FAA then you have to ask them since this is not 2-way voice comm.

But I suspect you already understand this and just came here to complain. :dunno:
 
If you have ForeFlight Mobile + Stratus (or other supported ADS-B receiver, such as a Garmin GDL88 via a FlightStream 210) you can tap on More > Devices > {ADS-B Device} > ADS-B Ownship to see what ForeFlight is receiving from your aircraft's ADS-B Out equipment. Note: You'll likely need to be airborne to see all the details populated.
 
petrolero said:
Beats me. You don't have to buy it for 5 more years and even then only if you want to fly where it's required. Buy it or don't.

But yes, the Avionics tech can test that the box is broadcasting the right lat/long. In fact, there is a way to cross check that in flight. But if you want to see how your signal was received by the FAA then you have to ask them since this is not 2-way voice comm.

But I suspect you already understand this and just came here to complain. :dunno:
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No. I assumed that ADS-B would be like the transponder and would need to get checked every couple years. But apparently not??? I'm not finding the ADS-B equivalent of 91.413 :dunno:

And, no, I'm not jumping into anything for at least a few more years, but when the time comes - well I live pretty close to the center of the class B 30nm ring of death.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
No. I assumed that ADS-B would be like the transponder and would need to get checked every couple years. But apparently not??? I'm not finding the ADS-B equivalent of 91.413 :dunno:
Click to expand...

I believe that ADS-B has quality checks built into the system starting with the GPS and continuing through the data processing on the ground.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
No. I assumed that ADS-B would be like the transponder and would need to get checked every couple years. But apparently not??? I'm not finding the ADS-B equivalent of 91.413 :dunno:

And, no, I'm not jumping into anything for at least a few more years, but when the time comes - well I live pretty close to the center of the class B 30nm ring of death.
Click to expand...

That's a good question but it bears no resemblance to what you posted above, which read more like a complaint to me. :dunno:
 
happypilot876 said:
If you have ForeFlight Mobile + Stratus (or other supported ADS-B receiver, such as a Garmin GDL88 via a FlightStream 210) you can tap on More > Devices > {ADS-B Device} > ADS-B Ownship to see what ForeFlight is receiving from your aircraft's ADS-B Out equipment. Note: You'll likely need to be airborne to see all the details populated.
Click to expand...

I'll try this next flight. Thanks.
 
I look forward to getting one of these reports after my next mountain flight... or over the Great Dirt Sea of Kansas. :D
 
Also keep in mind that for you to receive all of the ADS-B in services (traffic) the ADS-B out installation needs to be configured properly to tell the ground station what ADS-B in equipment you have. Without this you will not receive the whole traffic picture.

If you have a stratus you should configure it as a dual band system. if it is a free flight 978 only receiver then you must tell it 978 only etc.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
You spend all that money and no one even checks to make sure it works? Ever?

Same question.
Click to expand...

Mine is a transponder so it undergoes the usual transponder checks which include checking that it is broadcasting the right Mode S code and the lat/long received from the GPS. And of course the baro altitude encoding.

My GTN-750 is TSO'd and performs internal RAIM checks to assure that its positioning meets all the TSO requirements. The transponder is merely parroting the position given it by the GTN. So as long as I (or the avionics shop) verify that it's parroting the right lat/long there's nothing more I can do beyond verifying the packets themselves.

I don't know if my avionics shop is able to verify the packets sent from the transponder or not, but the FAA definitely does and that's what that report is all about. It's pretty detailed and I'm trying to post the PDF guide but I'm having difficulties with my PC right now.

The FAA also can compare my baro altitude vs my GPS altitude (and yes, they do state that those are two potentially very different altitudes) so they could, in theory, flag a bad baro encoder if it was way off from the GPS altitude - or vice versa. Anyway all of the items they sent in the report are being tracked for all ADS-B out aircraft all the time and can be used to flag faulty transmitters - again, in theory. I don't know if they are actively doing this today or not.

So I'd say yes, the transmitted data is being validated, although it's not all done by the avionics shop.
 
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I don't know about the rest of the country, but ADS-B has been completely worthless lately, down here on the Texas Gulf coast.

Where formerly we had perfect service using Garmin Pilot (and a GDL-39), and fair service using a GRT Horizon EFIS (with a Sky Radar receiver), since OSH the service has been continually up/down.

I hope it's just teething pains.
 
Jay Honeck said:
I don't know about the rest of the country, but ADS-B has been completely worthless lately, down here on the Texas Gulf coast.

Where formerly we had perfect service using Garmin Pilot (and a GDL-39), and fair service using a GRT Horizon EFIS (with a Sky Radar receiver), since OSH the service has been continually up/down.

I hope it's just teething pains.
Click to expand...

jay do you have adsb-out? didn't the FAA change the system so that if you do not have out, you only get the re-broadcast if there is an out equipped aircraft in the area to ping the system?

bob
 
Jay - have you done the email report? What does it say?
 
dans2992 said:
Jay - have you done the email report? What does it say?
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Yeah, I've got out. It's not certified though (GRT now has a certified GPS source that will rectify that), as the email from the FAA noted.

But even passive ADS-B (as received on our tablet) has been sketchy as hell down here lately. Lots of traffic not showing up that normally would be displayed. We are hoping it's just a momentary glitch, but on our two hour flight to Uvalde today it was hit and miss again.
 
A) Where does one report ADS-B problems?

B) Does FAA flight check ADS-B?
 
denverpilot said:
A) Where does one report ADS-B problems?

B) Does FAA flight check ADS-B?
Click to expand...
I'm sure there will be a procedure, but I haven't heard what it is yet.

There is a new automated ADS-B checker on the FAA website that eliminates the hassle of sending them an email request. I tried it out, and it works. I had them check mine last week, and, of course, it "failed" most parameters because I don't have a certified GPS as my position source.

Because, you know, GRT's GPS is so different. And no one has GPS in anything...except for the 10 billion mobile devices that are sold every year. But I digress.

I forwarded the FAA report to GRT, and they verified that a certified GPS source will resolve most/all of my issues. They are taking preorders for their certified GPS solution, but it's not out yet.

When it comes out, I will buy it, install it, and throw away the (no doubt identical in every way) non-certified unit that I've had in the panel since 2014.
 
So ... Answers thus far are...

A) Nothing yet that anyone really knows about.

B) No.

That's just spiffy for this really awesome whiz-bang system that cost billions and does such cool things that we all are mandated to buy it.

What a piece of trash.
 
denverpilot said:
A) Where does one report ADS-B problems?

B) Does FAA flight check ADS-B?
Click to expand...

I must not be anybody.

A) Use this web location to report any discrepancy. https://www.faa.gov/nextgen/programs/adsb/ It can be used to send an email to the right folks. Better yet, use the link to report trouble https://docs.google.com/a/forefligh...Qvboa3UrClWJ0Yud6lJhwm3QIrcg/viewform?c=0&w=1
There is a procedure in the AIM to report outages, but I have tried it and it doesn't work unless you talk to one of the ops centers, as the Liedos folks don't have a clue.

B) The systems are flight tested prior to going live. I don't know if there is an ongoing inspection program.
 
"Hey guys, if you think the multi-billion dollar boondoggle isn't working, toss us an email, mmm-kay?"

ROFLMAO. Hilarious.
 
I have gotten good results in reporting issues using the link https://docs.google.com/a/forefligh...Qvboa3UrClWJ0Yud6lJhwm3QIrcg/viewform?c=0&w=1

I have reported outages of widespread ghosting which turned out to be the fusion servers had to be restarted. These are the systems that sort out which aircraft is broadcasting both an ADS-B position and a secondary radar transponder based position. These targets have to be resolved to be the same or a ghost will result.

I have also reported failures of METAR reports not showing up in the FISB feed.

With the most recent software introduced at the beginning of this year, non compliant ADS-B Out systems that are broadcasting are being treated as if they are not ADS-B Out capable and these aircraft will see ghosts as the ground stations will always send a TISB (the ghost). This is flushing a fair number of non compliant systems out of the woodwork as they ask why am I getting a ghost. This applies to equipment that is fully certified but not configured properly. Upgrades of GTX330 to GTX330ES are often in this category because dealers simply do a slide out - slide in and don't add the extra wire or configure them. If you are receiving ghosts, make sure to get a compliance report from the FAA and if you see red on any of the parameters, it might be because your system is not installed properly. There is no penalty for getting a compliance report, see https://adsbperformance.faa.gov/PAPRRequest.aspx
 
John Collins said:
Nah, just ***** about it, that will work.
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So there's a magical method you haven't described yet, where I can fix it instead of complaining about it! Awesome! LOL!

I should have known I could have such effect on a massive multi-billion dollar boondoggle forced upon everyone by law. Golly.

Meanwhile the comment made was on the ridiculousness of email as the only unofficial reporting point. Your response paraphrased was, "The contractor FAA chose wasn't told how to handle things they're supposed to handle."

Ahh. It's "someone else's fault"! The underlying motto of every government contractor in every multi-contractor boondoggle, ever.

Somehow... Just a guess here... Having seen that level of internal organizational failure before... I won't have much recourse in fixing that from the outside.

Most private organizations get that bad, they get restructured or they fail completely.

The base problem in broken brained thinking here is that ADS-B is a real safety of flight system.

The Catch-22 is:

If it is, you have to maintain and test it continually like it is and have a well published way to report problems and resolve them on a tight SLA.

If it isn't, it shouldn't be mandatory to have on board.

Hmm. Or there's option three...

It's all a big expensive circle jerk that nobody needed and the maintenance and support budget wasn't included up front because it would have been a much harder sales pitch. Marketing slicks about "NextGen" polled better with USA Today readers.
 
Thanks for your enlightenment. I will add you to my short list of individuals that are ignored. No point wasting my time.
 
If the investment in infrastructure was made on a routine basis, we wouldn't need billion dollar boondoggles to upgrade 40 year old systems.
 
John Collins said:
Thanks for your enlightenment. I will add you to my short list of individuals that are ignored. No point wasting my time.
Click to expand...

Notice he didn't answer the question of whether he gets paid by the boondoggle. I think he does.

He offered up an email address as the only non-published working way to turn in a trouble report for a federal system that cost billions, confirms that the officially published method of reporting problems is broken (his story, not mine), and then got "offended" when I said that level of system design for tech support was utter BS for a project that large and expensive.

"Wasting his time" as in, what? He didn't need to respond in the first place, if only to confirm it's a broken system. We knew that already.

But hey! It's mandated by law. It MUST be good for everyone! Because you know...

Nobody would buy something awesome on their own if it was worth the price and did something everyone needed...
 
ircphoenix said:
If the investment in infrastructure was made on a routine basis, we wouldn't need billion dollar boondoggles to upgrade 40 year old systems.
Click to expand...

That phrase is often used on TV by boondoggles. Watch for it on others. Whenever you hear an organization that's already $20T in debt by making "investments" say they need another "investment", hold on to your ass and your wallet.

Investment into what?

ADS-B by FAA's own words isn't a replacement for anything currently operating and all of that stuff still needs maintenance and updates.

It's not replacing primary radar. It's not a navigation tool. It's not all that great of a weather dissemination tool.

If you needed updates to primary radar, you simply go buy updates to primary radar. Or do wide-area multilateralization if you like new tech.

Mode-S already handled the aircraft to aircraft separation problem. 978 was grafted on to make it appear more useful and better designed than it was.

It's not authenticated, not encrypted, not secure, and not engineered right.

The only story we get about why it's mandated by law is still, "We spent a lot of money and time making this huge mistake! Therefore thou shalt use it."

Rah rah NexGen. Expensive stuff nobody needed.
 
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