How to speed up a student

Inverted said:
This.

Being a private pilot is like being in pee wee soccer. Everyone gets to play regardless of ability, you just have to be able to tie your shoes. Commercial flying requires a certain amount of ability, and versatility. A 1-2 hour preflight is extreme. Not sure if you are including planning into that number such as weather, cross country flight planning etc. but I can't imagine somebody, even a new student spending more than 30 minutes touching the airplane. Is this student being forced into the commercial by a family member or something else? Could be the student just isn't into it.
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That's not correct, that is the purview of Pt 103 and LSA/Sport Pilot. PP is already selective on medical criteria which includes exclusions for flawed mental function.
 
Ron Levy said:
Flexibility is essential in aviation, and if this person is so inflexible that "s/he freaks" if ATC assigns something other than the route or approach planned before flight, s/he isn't ready to be a Commercial Pilot.
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I agree with this. I would question how they even managed to get as far as comm training. Even on a private pilot level things change all the time, being able to deal with it is a huge part of it.

Also as mentioned before, if s/he were to tell me a training scenario was unrealistic or throw a fit about anything, i wouldn't be flying with them.
 
I can't think of what one could possibly check in 1 hour...Is he taking off the cowling too? How is his checklist use in the airplane? (some take forever and still miss half of it)
 
if the wx brief is checked twice, how many times are gone around the plane? that could be the time taker.
 
The time it takes is not the issue, the reason for the time it takes is the issue; as in why, not what.
 
Surprised no one has mentioned that a Wx brief is not required for staying in the pattern. Seems the student does not understand the "why" and how to apply what they've learned.
 
Jaybird180 said:
Surprised no one has mentioned that a Wx brief is not required for staying in the pattern. Seems the student does not understand the "why" and how to apply what they've learned.
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Required, no. What if you are going to a practice area 15 miles away?
 
Who here thinks it is crazy long for a student pilot (even a commercial student) preparing for a cross-country to take 1 - 2 hours to gather all info, compute w&b and performance data, get a full briefing, preflight the airplane, and anything else she (arbitrary gender) can think of? I certainly do not.

As I mention above, how thorough or a bit slow she is is not the issue, the inflexibility is the issue and can perhaps be addressed in training.
 
Here's what I consider "normal" performance for a private pilot or commercial student to fly a cross-country to an airport 100 NM away:

Flight Planning:
Pick the route the night before, at home. 30 min to an hour depending on complexity of terrain, airspace, and other issues.

Weather: Full briefing before coming to the airport. Complete flight plan with wind data. Make go/no decision. File flight plan. 30 min to an hour.

Arrive at airport. Dispatch airplane, preflight it. 30-45 minutes depending on if fuel is required. One last call to FSS or look at DUAT for an ABBREVIATED briefing, check to see if any new notams or TFRs have popped up.
10-15 min pre-brief with CFI. Go fly.

Yes, there's a few hours of prep for a flight. But most of it takes place before the airplane and CFI are booked.

The really disturbing things are the lack of flexibility and adaptability.
 
alfadog said:
Who here thinks it is crazy long for a student pilot (even a commercial student) preparing for a cross-country to take 1 - 2 hours to gather all info, compute w&b and performance data, get a full briefing, preflight the airplane, and anything else she (arbitrary gender) can think of? I certainly do not.

As I mention above, how thorough or a bit slow she is is not the issue, the inflexibility is the issue and can perhaps be addressed in training.
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I do, besides, the time is not the issue, it's the inflexibility that is the greatest concern and this is not always a treatable issue, and this far along into everything I have serious doubts that it is here. He may be able to outwardly force a change with considered thought but that does little if anything towards reaction in an emergency. I'd have strong reservations about this guy as PIC of a passenger flight.
 
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There is another option...

Push him and push him hard. He'll either adapt or wash out.

Tell him you're going to simulate a line pilot's day and there will be emergencies galore along the way. He gets 30 minutes from arrival at the airport to be ready to "push" and once airborne, start throwing failures at him even after the frustration point.

This is sadly the "nuclear" option. He'll either get a taste of going faster and need a lot of mental health help afterward to get his confidence back, or he'll throw in the towel and walk away thinking CFIs are crazy.

I hate to bring it up before you've flown with him, but it's an option.

"I'm concerned about your performance and worried you won't make the grade to fly for a living. Before we go further and waste a lot of your time and money, we are going to speed up your processes to professional level, both to see if you really want to do this job for a living, and get you used to the systems failures you're going to have thrown at you on every checkride for the rest of your life. I will make sure we're safe and that if you miss anything, it's covered for now, but the expectation is that you will see how to do all of these things accurately and safely at a pace that will keep up with your peers. If you're not okay with that, tell me now and we will shake hands and part as friends."

This option is difficult. He may end up hating you. He also may not know you saved his life.

Set an example, show the example, expect the performance.
 
denverpilot said:
There is another option...

Push him and push him hard. He'll either adapt or wash out.

Tell him you're going to simulate a line pilot's day and there will be emergencies galore along the way. He gets 30 minutes from arrival at the airport to be ready to "push" and once airborne, start throwing failures at him even after the frustration point.

This is sadly the "nuclear" option. He'll either get a taste of going faster and need a lot of mental health help afterward to get his confidence back, or he'll throw in the towel and walk away thinking CFIs are crazy.

I hate to bring it up before you've flown with him, but it's an option.

"I'm concerned about your performance and worried you won't make the grade to fly for a living. Before we go further and waste a lot of your time and money, we are going to speed up your processes to professional level, both to see if you really want to do this job for a living, and get you used to the systems failures you're going to have thrown at you on every checkride for the rest of your life. I will make sure we're safe and that if you miss anything, it's covered for now, but the expectation is that you will see how to do all of these things accurately and safely at a pace that will keep up with your peers. If you're not okay with that, tell me now and we will shake hands and part as friends."

This option is difficult. He may end up hating you. He also may not know you saved his life.

Set an example, show the example, expect the performance.
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A decent idea, but some of these part 141 programs are so damn strict their instructors have no ability to apply common sense or operate outside of the syllabus. Not sure such a thing would be acceptable.
 
jesse said:
A decent idea, but some of these part 141 programs are so damn strict their instructors have no ability to apply common sense or operate outside of the syllabus. Not sure such a thing would be acceptable.
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Somewhere I missed that this was at a 141. That's definitely not ideal, as Mr. White would say. ;)
 
jesse said:
A decent idea, but some of these part 141 programs are so damn strict their instructors have no ability to apply common sense or operate outside of the syllabus. Not sure such a thing would be acceptable.
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What you call strict I call standard.
 
Captain said:
What you call strict I call standard.
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Problem is the standard at all too many 141 programs is "Pizz Poor" because it's the blind leading the blind with no knowledge to pass on except what they were taught from the same syllabus.
 
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I've seen it mentioned a couple of times, but the thing that personally bugs me more than the preflight attitude is the "that's not credible" response in the cockpit (i.e., pushing the cb back in when the CFI simulates a failure).

A person who's OCD in preflighting and overdoes that has their heart in the right place, regardless of whether their actions are appropriate.

A person who rejects training (and thus refuses learning) in off-nominal / emergency scenarios has issues, and there's just no other way to look at that.
 
Henning said:
Problem is the standard at all too many 141 programs is "Pizz Poor" because it's the blind leading the blind with no knowledge to pass on except what they were taught from the same syllabus.
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yep....I could go on and on about some of the larger puppy mill type flight schools out there.
 
alfadog said:
Required, no. What if you are going to a practice area 15 miles away?
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Check the weather-specifically the TAF/FA and radar. You already have to check NOTAMs and TFRs, so scanning over the TAF/FA should only add about a minute to the process.
 
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