How to sell your airplane easier - spend the money right.

stratobee

stratobee

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stratobee
A lesson I've learned now. If you buy an aircraft and plan on retaining as much sale value as possible should you one day want to sell, then:

Put the money on bling and where it shows.

Put it on new panels, new interiors and new paint, don't spend it on mechanics. People don't care that the engines are newly overhauled or that every hose or cable has been exchanged - they want new paint and shiny glass. Now, with run out engines you don't have that option, but if you're looking at a mid time engine plane and wondering where to spend the money, do it on cosmetics. It will sell quicker and recoup more.

People buy with their eyes, not with numbers.
 
I believe that for the most part, you are spot on.

stratobee said:
A lesson I've learned now. If you buy an aircraft and plan on retaining as much sale value as possible should you one day want to sell, then:

Put the money on bling and where it shows.

Put it on new panels, new interiors and new paint, don't spend it on mechanics. People don't care that the engines are newly overhauled or that every hose or cable has been exchanged - they want new paint and shiny glass. Now, with run out engines you don't have that option, but if you're looking at a mid time engine plane and wondering where to spend the money, do it on cosmetics. It will sell quicker and recoup more.

People buy with their eyes, not with numbers.
Click to expand...
 
Stratobee is right. I've seen purchasers hot to buy unairworthy airplanes because they had a new coat of paint and nice interior. When I told them they were about to buy a piece of junk, they changed their minds.
 
Part of it is people can verify new paint or an updated panel.

You can't verify mechanicals beyond general condition without a very invasive inspection - and sellers can have fly by night A&Ps pencil whip anything for the right amount of $$$.
 
It's always easy to be swayed by good looks,and fancy avionics. Mechanics are harder to verify. A few dollars spent on a good pre purchase,with a good mechanic can help.
 
You are correct. Best way to sell a turd is to add something that smells good.

What irritates the **** outa me is seeing decent planes, but the panel looks like it's straight outa the 70s. The asking price is on par with other planes with all sorts of do-dads and eye candy, or just slightly under that point.

Why would I buy your plane at top dollar when I can get the other guys ride and be semi-glass already.

As both a buyer and a seller, I have been on both sides of the coin. I won't look at any plane that does not have an engine monitor, a GNS or similar and if it still has shag carpet, it's all over.

As a seller, I try to highlight the small bits that the wildly inaccurate Vref says has no value. Shiny paint, modern exterior and visible upgrades sell a plane. Doesn't matter to a buyer if the engine is new, when your cheep ass is still flying on a VOR and the ADF.

But, spending cash on upgrades, you will never get your Capitol back. Case and point, I had a broker tell me the brand spankin new GDL88 in my plane was only worth $4k max on the bottom line. Even with an almost $6k receipt in hand, it was an instant $2k drop in value.
 
No, you'll never get your money back on any upgrade, but a cosmetic upgrade might lessen the blow. I for sure know that engine overhauls add very little value, unfortunately. At least for pistons, maybe turbines more so.

The smartest thing to buy is a plane with runouts (or close) and just fly it. That's when you lose the least amount if you can stomach it. Unless you have a PC-12. They just increase in value.:D
 
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I've been looking and it's amazing how two aircraft are priced almost the same, one will have 10,000 hours on the airframe, 1800+ on the engine and a garbage panel, the other will be low time with at least a decent GPS in the panel if not more than that. Of course, the former will sit on the market forever and there are a few still sitting from when I first started(I've been looking for about 6 months now). ...

I don't know if the "bling" stereotype fits for everyone. The first thing I look at is the panel followed by SMOH and AFTT.

As for the aesthetics...If it's REALLY ratty looking, I'm probably passing... however, brand new paint and a flawless leather interior aren't requirements either. Aside from my dad's airplane, I've flown beat up junk since I started.

You're not getting your investment back when you upgrade, overhaul the engine, etc.... that's just a given. Something to keep in mind if you're going to stuff a G650 into a 152:)
 
We covered this.

You hold a raffle.
Sell 3000 tickets at $50 a piece and you get 150k for your 40k plane.

Donate a portion of the proceeds to charity and go buy that Cirrus.
 
stratobee said:
Put the money on bling and where it shows.

Put it on new panels, new interiors and new paint, don't spend it on mechanics.
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Wait, are we talking about airplanes or people?
 
And this is surprising because???

Of course shiny planes with new panels sell faster. Getting a plane that's mechanically sound is a bare minimum for most of us.
 
asicer said:
Wait, are we talking about airplanes or people?
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Somehow blonde women with enhanced parts, plenty of make up seem to have no trouble getting a guy. It may take the guy an annual or two to find out what he really got, but it looks good in the mean time! :mad2: THEN he figures out why the last guy no longer wanted her in the hangar! :nono:
 
I was the opposite when I was looking at aircraft because I was being advised by a broker. Every time I found an airplane and began the process of taking off my shirt and swinging it over my head and hopping on one foot, he would advise me to CTFD. I eventually learned.

There are four things you can't 'wash off': hours on the airframe, missing log books, corrosion, and damage history.

I would add one more: foreign service and maintenance. I had much difficulty selling my '66 C172 whose engine (not original) had had an overhaul done in Costa Rica. Perfectly legal sayeth the FAA but a huge turnoff to domestic buyers (other than me apparently). The paint and interior were also hideous so that didn't exactly help. Still, I had a flight school lined up to buy it until they found out about the foreign overhaul.

People will debate the damage one but it's a fact that damage history permanently lowers the selling price for airplanes even though the damage may be fully repaired (and try finding documentation for a repair done 10 or 15 years earlier even if by an FAA approved repair station - they don't keep records forever). It's like having a felony on your record or something. May be the best airplane in the world but it has the dreaded 'damage history'.

In general, I just think an owner should not let any part of the airplane fall far behind the rest. My philosophy is to make my rounds every year or two and keep things up to date incrementally. Every third or fourth year is something major.


*The exceptions were the 3/4 panel C177 Cardinal RGs I looked at. WTF was Cessna thinking?
 
In this thread: Marketing 101.
 
stratobee said:
A lesson I've learned now. If you buy an aircraft and plan on retaining as much sale value as possible should you one day want to sell, then:

Put the money on bling and where it shows.

Put it on new panels, new interiors and new paint, don't spend it on mechanics. People don't care that the engines are newly overhauled or that every hose or cable has been exchanged - they want new paint and shiny glass. Now, with run out engines you don't have that option, but if you're looking at a mid time engine plane and wondering where to spend the money, do it on cosmetics. It will sell quicker and recoup more.

People buy with their eyes, not with numbers.
Click to expand...

How about just taking care of the plane from start....

Regarding he engine, I am looking to go with a run out, that way when it gets rebuilt, I know t is getting rebuilt...
 
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petrolero said:
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People will debate the damage one but it's a fact that damage history permanently lowers the selling price for airplanes even though the damage may be fully repaired (and try finding documentation for a repair done 10 or 15 years earlier even if by an FAA approved repair station - they don't keep records forever). It's like having a felony on your record or something. May be the best airplane in the world but it has the dreaded 'damage history'.
Click to expand...

I was recently involved in purchasing an airplane. Honestly, I was looking at airplanes for nearly two years and considered many. Even made long trips and pre-purchased some. Eventually my priorities became 1. a good engine and airframe; 2. avionics, paint, interior, etc.

A damage history reduces the value (probably by the rule of 10 and 1. 10% if it has happened in the past 10 years and 1% if it happened before that and the airplane has been flying since). I think we cannot find a perfect 40 years old airplane with a very good engine, no damage history, excellent maintenance, etc. And if we do, the price is high enough that we consider upgrading to a better airplane around the same price. That's my experience.

We probably shouldn't buy an airplane with Damage History for a full price but is the price I want to sell my airplane in the next 10 years more important than my and my passengers' safety if I buy an A/C with no damage history but issues with the engine e.g. corrosion, metals in the oil, etc.?

I reduce the price due to damage history but if it's repaired properly and has good engine/airframe I wouldn't reject it.
 
I think the question is what is "full price" for an airplane, damage history or not. I'd much rather have a good airplane with disclosed damage history than a lesser one claiming NDH. :D Again, is it a gear up from 2008 with 500 hours since or an Aerostar that recently landed and took off with the gear up? :yikes:

NavByte said:
I was recently involved in purchasing an airplane. Honestly, I was looking at airplanes for nearly two years and considered many. Even made long trips and pre-purchased some. Eventually my priorities became 1. a good engine and airframe; 2. avionics, paint, interior, etc.

A damage history reduces the value (probably by the rule of 10 and 1. 10% if it has happened in the past 10 years and 1% if it happened before that and the airplane has been flying since). I think we cannot find a perfect 40 years old airplane with a very good engine, no damage history, excellent maintenance, etc. And if we do, the price is high enough that we consider upgrading to a better airplane around the same price. That's my experience.

We probably shouldn't buy an airplane with Damage History for a full price but is the price I want to sell my airplane in the next 10 years more important than my and my passengers' safety if I buy an A/C with no damage history but issues with the engine e.g. corrosion, metals in the oil, etc.?

I reduce the price due to damage history but if it's repaired properly and has good engine/airframe I wouldn't reject it.
Click to expand...
 
My first plane was a 700 TTSN Hawk XP on PeeKay floats. It was gorgeous inside and out. Every time I'd taxi into my slip I'd look across the next canal at a faded drydocked 180 and tell my wife that was my next plane. One day I saw a guy running it and drove over to talk to him and expressed my interest in buying it. He was cordial but declined. The following spring I called him to reassert my interest. he sold it to me. That was 20 years ago and I still have it. I've had a couple of Cubs come and go in that time but my 180 is part of the family. it wasn't pretty but it was love at first sight. it's pretty now, by the way. There's a familiar saying in Alaska. Pretty doesn't make them fly.
 
N747JB said:
I think the question is what is "full price" for an airplane, damage history or not. I'd much rather have a good airplane with disclosed damage history than a lesser one claiming NDH. :D Again, is it a gear up from 2008 with 500 hours since or an Aerostar that recently landed and took off with the gear up? :yikes:
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I know. There is not a real "full price". But checking many sites such as controller, trade-a-plane, vref, or websites that are experts in evaluating, such as Jimmy Garrison's for Mooneys, you can get an idea what should be a fair price. Also, when I look at buying for example a Bo, if it's maintained by a Beech service center, it's much more valuable than if a mobile freelance A&P has kept it.

Anyway, you're right. I too would rather buy a good one with a disclosed damage history.
 
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