How to (Safely) Decrease Preflight Time?

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talkingbob

Pre-takeoff checklist
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JonC
Hello,

I fly a C172N that is part of a flying club and kept tied-down outside. I find the time it takes to do all preflight activities is about a half hour, especially for cross-country flights. Is this normal for someone in my situation? If not, any tips to decrease the time it takes? Please know that I am NOT looking to decrease safety in any way, so please bear that in mind when responding.

Thanks!
 
A half hour seems a little long to me, but I'm sure the duration decreased the more hours I got and the more comfortable I got inspecting things. If you are including weather, flight planning, etc, that might not be that bad. Just call flight service for a brief can take 10-15 minutes if they read every little item to me. If it is a club plane or rental, it may be good to take a little extra time as you don't know what the last person may have done to it.
 
Sounds reasonable to me. So how do you preflight differently for cross country?

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If it takes you a half hour, then it takes you a half hour. As you become more familiar with the plane and memorize the checks, you will find that the time to perform them will decrease. It takes me 20 to 30 minutes to preflight an unfamiliar rental 172, and about ten minutes to preflight my own plane.
 
JoeFromKS said:
So how do you preflight differently for cross country?

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Well, cross country usually involves more "toys" being set up - ADS-B thingy, portable GPS, etc. Cross country flights typically have PAX, vs. local flights may not. Also, I typically like to have my "ducks in a row" in terms of destination airport info and route (sectional) handy on my kneeboard. If I get lost in my local area, I've got other problems!

Here's a brief run-down of my current procedure:
1. Arrive at airport and go to plane. Make sure nothing obvious has happened to it (flat tire, etc).
2. Get the Tach hours before walking back in to the FBO.
3. Go into FBO and "dispatch" the flight - ensuring the tach hours match actual tach. Pick up a paper towel, use restroom, sometimes talk to someone.
4. Walk back out to the plane and perform the normal (checklist-driven) preflight and set up "toys". Call ATIS, set altimiter.
5. Get settled (seatbelts, doors, headsets, passenger brief, etc).
6. ENGINE START!
 
Sac Arrow said:
If it takes you a half hour, then it takes you a half hour. As you become more familiar with the plane and memorize the checks, you will find that the time to perform them will decrease. It takes me 20 to 30 minutes to preflight an unfamiliar rental 172, and about ten minutes to preflight my own plane.
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I understand where you are coming from and don't want to compromise safety, but at the same time, I feel like any time someone goes flying with me and they ride out to the airport with me, they are in for a bit of a wait while I run around and do stuff. I mean, sure, they could just drive out separately and show up a half hour later, but that can be a pain too.
One thought I had was making my own checklist for the entire process beyond the required preflight checklist, but didn't know how much time it would save.
 
Depends on what you include in your "preflight."

I found I generally take about 30 minutes from driving up to the FBO door to starting the engine. That includes dispatch, weather briefing, filing flight plans, briefing passengers, restroom breaks for everyone, making sure everyone has water, fuel and oil, cleaning the windows, loading the airplane, and the preflight inspection. It takes somewhat longer for an IFR flight.
 
talkingbob said:
I understand where you are coming from and don't want to compromise safety, but at the same time, I feel like any time someone goes flying with me and they ride out to the airport with me, they are in for a bit of a wait while I run around and do stuff. I mean, sure, they could just drive out separately and show up a half hour later, but that can be a pain too.
One thought I had was making my own checklist for the entire process beyond the required preflight checklist, but didn't know how much time it would save.
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It wouldn't hurt. Some thought into streamlining might help, especially if you can avoid walking back into the FBO. For instance, jotting down the hobbs & tach and "verifying" them after the flight. You'll get faster as you gain practice. The important thing is to avoid complacency. I get amazed by what people don't find on occasion. The last one was a leaky brake line leaving a puddle on the pavement. Like hell I'm going to fly that.
 
talkingbob said:
Well, cross country usually involves more "toys" being set up - ADS-B thingy, portable GPS, etc. Cross country flights typically have PAX, vs. local flights may not. Also, I typically like to have my "ducks in a row" in terms of destination airport info and route (sectional) handy on my kneeboard. If I get lost in my local area, I've got other problems!

Here's a brief run-down of my current procedure:
1. Arrive at airport and go to plane. Make sure nothing obvious has happened to it (flat tire, etc).
2. Get the Tach hours before walking back in to the FBO.
3. Go into FBO and "dispatch" the flight - ensuring the tach hours match actual tach. Pick up a paper towel, use restroom, sometimes talk to someone.
4. Walk back out to the plane and perform the normal (checklist-driven) preflight and set up "toys". Call ATIS, set altimiter.
5. Get settled (seatbelts, doors, headsets, passenger brief, etc).
6. ENGINE START!
Click to expand...

Skip gong to the plane first. That's at least 5 min.
 
MAKG1 said:
It wouldn't hurt. Some thought into streamlining might help, especially if you can avoid walking back into the FBO. For instance, jotting down the hobbs & tach and "verifying" them after the flight. You'll get faster as you gain practice. The important thing is to avoid complacency. I get amazed by what people don't find on occasion. The last one was a leaky brake line leaving a puddle on the pavement. Like hell I'm going to fly that.
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Have you done anything to "streamline" the process?
Also, it's funny how you mentioned a leaking brake line... I once visually checked the brake caliper area and tire, but because the plane was parked in the grass, there was not a "puddle", so the only way to tell would have been to get my head on the ground to look UNDER the landing gear or feel for fluid with my fingers. I have always been proud of not being complacent with preflights, but I have been flying this airplane since 2012 and just can't seem to get the preflight time any shorter than it was on day one!
 
Cooter143 said:
Skip gong to the plane first. That's at least 5 min.
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Yeah, that's a good idea. If the actual tach is wrong, I will have to spend time "undispatching", but the times when the actual tach is correct, it would speed things up, that's for sure.
 
I always figure a 1/2 hour for the preflight on the 172 from the time I open the door until engine start. Sometimes it takes less but I do the preflight then I step back and do a big picture last look around. Make sure I didn't miss anything and that the plane "looks" like it is supposed to nothing bent or torqued or whatever. What's the hurry?
 
steingar said:
Buy your airplane and hangar it. Preflight goes way faster.
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I think this is what got me started thinking about how long preflight takes. There is a guy on the field with an experimental (RV) that he hangars and pulled it out of the hangar and started it up in like, 10 minutes!
 
Do you need all those toys?

You'll notice the less experienced pilots are often the ones with the big ol fligtbags walking out to a 172

The more experienced folks will have their certs and medical living in their wallet, walk out to the plane with their headset and MAYBE a non mounted iPad if it's a IFR flight or well past 300nm type of stuff.

I'd say my preflights are about 15min or so, on my plane or about the same and another 10min for paperwork on the work plane. Not skimping on saftey, you just get faster with time. My first preflight on a plane probably is around 45min, as I really go over everything, once you get to know the plane thatll cut down dramatically.

The only thing in your case is the plane is outside, which really adds to some of the cleaning and other bird, vandal, etc checks you might want to do, plus it's shared so you really don't know before you even go out what's on the short term MX roster.
 
Allow yourself enough time to do a thorough preflight. Get to the airport 15 minutes early so you don't feel rushed. You can do the same preflight hundreds of times and feel like you can do a quick walk around, sump the tanks, and check the oil and you're good to go. After awhile you become complacent, (talking from experience) and you forget something, because you are so used to it being a certain way. USE THE CHECKLIST and do not be in a hurry.
 
I hear a lot about Progressive Preflights; mechanics use the model for maintenance, why not pilots? Wings this month, tail next month, maybe the engine at some point. Just wondering.
 
Questions like this imply, to me, that your either bored to death, killing time on employers time or both.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Kick the tires, light...oh wait. NVM.
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This.... ^^^^^


Ask yourself "It flew in, didn't it?"

A lot of what is being included isn't really "pre-flight", it is BS'ing with someone in the FBO, using the bathroom, making sure people have drinks, etc...


I will usually just take a **** between the door hinge and the landing gear, saves a trip into the FBO. Sometimes on the ramp, sometimes on the taxiway, sometimes on the run-up area.

Bring your drinks from home, a couple of bottles of water and you are good.

Not sure what a "weather briefing" is, but with cell phones, ForeFlight, and other tools, that can be done prior to getting to the airport, or while warming the plane up.
 
talkingbob said:
I think this is what got me started thinking about how long preflight takes. There is a guy on the field with an experimental (RV) that he hangars and pulled it out of the hangar and started it up in like, 10 minutes!
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That sounds like me ... I'm familiar with my plane, can do the entire checklist quickly and ALSO have the benefit of post flight review you renters don't participate in (cleaning bugs off leading edges and windshield, degreasing the bottom antennas) ... being the only pilot helps as the plane is generally in the same shape it was left in on the last flight.

I slow down and double check everything after maintenance and annuals ....
 
I know I’m not as quick as others with preflight activities. It really doesn’t bother me since I enjoy flight planning and dinking around the aircraft. I fly for pleasure, and rushing around is never pleasurable.


I average about 30 minutes for preflight on a familiar aircraft. Preflight also includes removal of the cover, logging Hobbs and tach time, attaching headsets, walking over to the restroom, and finally, towing the plane out for engine start. This doesn’t include activities such as calling for a weather briefing, or cleaning windows.
 
That seems reasonable for a shared plane. I assume a half hour when I plan to fly and
Clark1961 said:
Give the passenger that you are worried about having to wait something to do. Send them out for beer so you'll have something to drink on the flight.
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I don't think the "8 hours bottle to throttle" rule has such a big loophole that you get to start drinking as soon as you've got the throttle set for cruise and take your hand off it. I could be wrong. I'm not an aviation lawyer.

On the original topic, 30 minutes is totally reasonable. That's the time I plan on from parking at the hangar to beginning my taxi when I fly the Arrow. It's a good bit less with the J-3, but largely because I mostly fly that locally and therefore I normally leave the hangar door open and there isn't an electrical system so I don't have to remember where I put my iPad charger. It's more than that when I fly the rental Cherokee because it tends to migrate among hangars and sometimes lives in a hangar with gravel and grass in front of it so you may have to stop at the chiropractor before or after you muscle it in or out of the hangar.
 
steingar said:
Buy your airplane and hangar it. Preflight goes way faster.
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Yeah...that.

30 min sounds totally reasonable for a community/rental plane. I have my own plane on a tie down while on the eternal hangar wait list and I am usually 20 min from driving up to taxi to runway. I had a hangar sublease for a few months and during that time just having the hangar shaved probably 5 minutes or so off that time...plus I could go do a good chunk of the preflight the night before if I needed to just hop in and go the next morning where I knew another soul would not be near the plane and be airborne in 10. Some things were always day of flight...but on ramp, EVERYTHING is day of flight.

On a ramp...pulling/installing headsets, ipad, gadgets, handheld radio, control locks, flight bag, closing windows, tying down, throttle locks, plugs and covers...those things add up time wise vs just shoving it in and out of a hangar.
 
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I usually tip the lineman to do it for me. A fiver usually gets a pretty thorough pre-flight from someone who may or may not have their pilots license in 2-3 months.

For a ten they will do it twice as fast...

But seriously..

If you're in a hurry and you DO have a hangar, do the preflight the night before as thoroughly as you can. When you leave the next day sump it, check a few items and go.

If I had a plane at a tie-down I don't think I'd wanna rush the pre-flight. Too many things can happen overnight. Nature makes a nest in the cowling, flat tire from someone moving my plane over FOD, etc...
 
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I usually spend about 15 minutes actually preflighting the Luscombe, now that I have a private hangar and don't have to worry about checking for hangar rash/damage and making sure nothing has been stolen.
There's not a lot to check. ( lol ) I haul my own gas and fueling consumes another 5-10 minutes, but sometimes I refuel after the flight. I do an abbreviated preflight if I've flown the day before.
 
Since I'm the only one flying my RV the preflight goes pretty quick, like maybe 5 minutes.

I'm in a club where I don't see the planes as frequently. That's closer to 20 minutes since I look at any prior squawk items closely.

If it's a rental outside the club or the ones I fly in California once a year I can spend as much as 45 minutes going through everything line by line and asking annoying questions of the operator. (He doesn't really mind :))
 
James331 said:
Do you need all those toys?

You'll notice the less experienced pilots are often the ones with the big ol fligtbags walking out to a 172

The more experienced folks will have their certs and medical living in their wallet, walk out to the plane with their headset and MAYBE a non mounted iPad if it's a IFR flight or well past 300nm type of stuff.
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How about your spare inner tube, spark plug, booster box, and tool box?
 
I'm usually 30 minutes from walking into the flight school, get dispatched, to takeoff. That includes preflight, tow to the fuel island by the school golf cart, fuel, engine start and taxi. I get the ATIS on the handheld before engine start. I've already got my weather, notams, TFR data and flight plan before I leave home.
 
JOhnH said:
How about your spare inner tube, spark plug, booster box, and tool box?
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ohSNAP.gif
 
30 minutes parking lot to runway isn't bad. That is why professional pilots usually arrive at the airport 30-60 minutes early, to get everything handled before the passengers show.
 
I plan for 30 minutes on a preflight. Planes are tied down 172SP's that I rent. 'till my Cherokee gets out of annual.

That's walking around the plane, ordering fuel (we fancy), sumping the tanks, checking the control surfaces, counting the 12 screws on each aileron, checking counterweights, etc.

Doesn't hurt to be thorough. There's only a downside to being hasty. No downside to taking your time.
 
Preflighting the "airplane" is pretty much always the same, only changes when something like adding gas or oil comes up. I rent from different FBO's. Some refuel by truck, some you do it at the pump. I do "fluids first." I'll walk to the plane and check gas and oil before I even walk through the door to start the paperwork.
 
Reducing time is a laudable goal. The longer it takes you, the less efficient you are and more prone to make mistakes. Here are my thoughts:

1) experience helps. Fly more, preflight becomes more familiar
2) develop a preflight flow; use checklist afterward to verify tasks completed
3) reduce distractions-send your passengers off to the potty while you preflight.
4) Complete tasks ahead of time such as preflight planning, weather; Defer other tasks to inflight, such as programming the last 15 waypoints of a 20 waypoint route. You'll have plenty of time once you're established in cruise. Do tasks concurrently, like getting atis while warming up engine. Be safe though- Don't program your GPS while taxiing, however.
 
RVs seem especially easy to preflight....they're such simple airplanes. Control surface hinge bolts are out in the open and easy to see, and there are only two fuel drains. The last Cessna 172 I rented had 13 of them!!
 
30 minutes seems just fine. Rushing will be the enemy in aviation.
Some can do it in much less, but I would bet (no proof) statistically they miss more stuff.
 
@talkingbob, what I'd like to know is what your preflight consists of. Is it the basic POH checklist inspection that is taking a lot of time or are you including setting up things like EFBs and ActionCams?

If just the POH-based inspection, are you using a flow? Are you grouping tasks like doing all fuel and oil checking first in case you have to ask for a top off? Efficiency-based things like that can save some time without compromising safety.
 
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