How to reset a circadian clock?

colomtnflyer

colomtnflyer

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iAM in AK!
OK, my circadian clock is so totally screwed up!

I left SMF (Sac, Calif) for PDX (Portland, OR) at 6:45pm yesterday, arriving in PDX for a 1 hr layover before continuing on to ANC (Anchorage, AK) for a job interview.

I arrived in ANC just before midnight, local time,. But just 1/2 hr before landing, I watched the most incredible sunRISE!!! As the sun rose through the layers of clouds, I had to take a few pics ( to be posted later).

I stayed in ANC for the rest of the night before grabbing a rental car and heading up to Talkeetna, about 120 miles N of ANC. It has been the first day of clouds and rain they have seen here in several weeks, but it's supposed to clear up after tomorrow.

But the point of this missive- it is now just after 10pm, and its as light as if it were approaching 5pm! My body is telling me it's tired, but my brain is telling me to stay awake, as it's still light outside! Since I have to meet with the CP of the operation at 9am, I had better pull the blinds as tight as I can, and convince myself to sleep!

But hopefully it will be clear enough to fly tomorrow! It's not looking promising, but I'm ready if they are!
 
Bonne Chance! We were going to go flying in Talkeetna (in fact I was gong to get a FR while there) a couple of years ago, but Leslie's surgery put a kibosh on that. I still get e-mails from them, and hope to head up there some summer.
 
Traveling internationally a lot I have found that melatonin works well to help me get to sleep when I need and don't wake up feeling like I've been run over by a train. The body still gets the tired at inappropriate times (like sitting in a meeting in China listening to Chinese argue and not understanding a thing), but all in all it helps to get the rhythm back.
 
I recently spent an hour with an Intensivist and Sleep Specialist acquaintance talking about circadian disorders. According to her, the current thinking is:

Darkness is your friend for sleep.

If you have a scheduled bedtime of 10:00 pm and are having problems, you should consider:

Pulling the blinds as early as possible to make it dark if necessary and not having bright lights on any later than necessary. Use the minimum light needed for your task.

Getting off the computer and/or stop watching tv a minimum of 60 minutes before bedtime. The light from them stimulates wakefulness.

Getting in bed, lights out, 30 minutes before bedtime.

Taking Melatonin from 1-5 mg 30 min-2 hours before you want to go to sleep.

According to the good Dr. I spoke with, some people have good luck with very small doses of Melatonin, such as 1/2 mg. The starting dose she recommends for sleep onset disorders is 5 mg.

She said that some people report a hungover feeling the next morning when taking Melatonin. If that is the case, she generally recommends trying a smaller dose or taking the same dosage earlier in the evening.
 
NC Pilot said:
Traveling internationally a lot I have found that melatonin works well to help me get to sleep when I need and don't wake up feeling like I've been run over by a train. The body still gets the tired at inappropriate times (like sitting in a meeting in China listening to Chinese argue and not understanding a thing), but all in all it helps to get the rhythm back.
Click to expand...

Agree.

When I travel overseas, starting a couple of days before the trip I take melatonin at bedtime at the destination. I continue that a couple of days after arrival. Works pretty well. (Also helps that I can sleep on the plane...)
 
I have tried everything to reset the clock. But nothing really works except time and hydration. By hydration I mean coffee and beer. ;)

Lots of coffee to wake up in the morning and lots of beer in the evening to sleep.

The past couple of years I have actually just given up trying to reset it on trips. When I travel to Asia I usually am falling alseep at 4om. I force myself to stay awake to 6pm and then just give up and sleep until midnight or 1am and then get up to start my day.
 
I've tried it all, and nothing beats exercise and forcing yourself to stay awake. All of the drugs have some sort of side effect that will screw you up at an inopportune time.

Cheers,

-Andrew
 
Damn I think I had a couple too many drinks last night. I see the title and thought you were asking about Canadian clocks... :D
 
ScottM said:
I have tried everything to reset the clock. But nothing really works except time and hydration. By hydration I mean coffee and beer. ;)

Lots of coffee to wake up in the morning and lots of beer in the evening to sleep.

The past couple of years I have actually just given up trying to reset it on trips. When I travel to Asia I usually am falling alseep at 4om. I force myself to stay awake to 6pm and then just give up and sleep until midnight or 1am and then get up to start my day.
Click to expand...

You, too? I don't drink coffee (never developed a taste for it), but the beer at night is great. Maybe that's why Taipei wasn't so bad last month. We'll see about Milan next month. :D
 
Ghery said:
You, too? I don't drink coffee (never developed a taste for it), but the beer at night is great. Maybe that's why Taipei wasn't so bad last month. We'll see about Milan next month. :D
Click to expand...
Love a drink in the evening, but I saw a report a month or so back that said that each drink before bedtime take about 2 hours of quality sleep out of your night. So if you have two drinks before sleeping 8 hours, your body only feels the effects of sleeping 4 hours. I'm not saying, but...
 
...if you drink enough you sleep reeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaallllllly well.
 
EdFred said:
...if you drink enough you sleep reeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaallllllly well.
Click to expand...
Well, you're reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalllllllllllllly unconscious. I don't know that this is the same as sleeping really well! :nono:
 
I just read about some research that said one of the most reliable ways to reset the circadian rhythm is to not eat for 14-16 hours prior to the time you want to be waking up on the new schedule, and then eat a hearty breakfast right away in the morning. The first day may suck because you didn't sleep enough, but your rhythm will be on track right away. Add in the Melatonin as others have suggested for the end of the day, and you're golden. Ditto on the no TV/computer prior to going to sleep, as the light causes your natural melatonin to break down.

For more hints to get to sleep, look up "sleep hygiene" on Wikipedia. Very helpful article.
 
colomtnflyer said:
OK, my circadian clock is so totally screwed up!

I left SMF (Sac, Calif) for PDX (Portland, OR) at 6:45pm yesterday, arriving in PDX for a 1 hr layover before continuing on to ANC (Anchorage, AK) for a job interview.

I arrived in ANC just before midnight, local time,. But just 1/2 hr before landing, I watched the most incredible sunRISE!!! As the sun rose through the layers of clouds, I had to take a few pics ( to be posted later).

I stayed in ANC for the rest of the night before grabbing a rental car and heading up to Talkeetna, about 120 miles N of ANC. It has been the first day of clouds and rain they have seen here in several weeks, but it's supposed to clear up after tomorrow.

But the point of this missive- it is now just after 10pm, and its as light as if it were approaching 5pm! My body is telling me it's tired, but my brain is telling me to stay awake, as it's still light outside! Since I have to meet with the CP of the operation at 9am, I had better pull the blinds as tight as I can, and convince myself to sleep!

But hopefully it will be clear enough to fly tomorrow! It's not looking promising, but I'm ready if they are!
Click to expand...

What worked for me when I was flying halfway around the world on a regular basis was to force myself to stay awake in the daytime (no matter how tired) following arrival at my destination. Beer would help induce sleep when the appropriate time came. I didn't know about Melatonin in those days (did use it to a limited extent later) - but it can help also.

Dave
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I just read about some research that said one of the most reliable ways to reset the circadian rhythm is to not eat for 14-16 hours prior to the time you want to be waking up on the new schedule, and then eat a hearty breakfast right away in the morning. The first day may suck because you didn't sleep enough, but your rhythm will be on track right away. Add in the Melatonin as others have suggested for the end of the day, and you're golden. Ditto on the no TV/computer prior to going to sleep, as the light causes your natural melatonin to break down.

For more hints to get to sleep, look up "sleep hygiene" on Wikipedia. Very helpful article.
Click to expand...
BTDT, it did not work for me. I have tried everything and the only thing to really work is time. It just takes time to adjust. I find that it is about 5 days for me, which explains why I am in perpetual jet lag mode.

I hang with a group of pretty seasoned world travellers and together we have all tried everything that has been proffered as a solution. In the end we go with force yourself awake until it is time to drink, then wake up and drink coffee to stay awake. It really seems like most of the solutions are just snake oil.
 
ScottM said:
BTDT, it did not work for me. I have tried everything and the only thing to really work is time. It just takes time to adjust. I find that it is about 5 days for me, which explains why I am in perpetual jet lag mode.

I hang with a group of pretty seasoned world travellers and together we have all tried everything that has been proffered as a solution. In the end we go with force yourself awake until it is time to drink, then wake up and drink coffee to stay awake. It really seems like most of the solutions are just snake oil.
Click to expand...

And then you go to a meeting in Europe with a bunch of Europeans. The meeting starts in the afternoon and they flew or took the train that morning. And they wonder why you look dead. Once in a while I get even by hosting them on the west coast. :D
 
I would find that going back in the past a few hours would do me some good!!
 
cessna182b said:
What worked for me when I was flying halfway around the world on a regular basis was to force myself to stay awake in the daytime (no matter how tired) following arrival at my destination. Beer would help induce sleep when the appropriate time came. I didn't know about Melatonin in those days (did use it to a limited extent later) - but it can help also.

Dave
Click to expand...
This is what works for me too. If I get there early enough I can take a 1 or 2 hr nap but it must not be much longer. The trick, at least for me, is to be tired enough to sleep a full night at the proper time.

The theory that makes sense to me is that you can only move your circadian clock forward. It is much easier to go from the east coast to the west than vice versa. In the the former it's a matter of staying up late and sleeping late. The other way, you have to either sleep before your time or take days to adjust. If you cross enough time zones it doesn't matter which direction.

Joe
 
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