How to identify a low flying pilot

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WMorgan

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Will
Hi Everybody:

I'm not a pilot myself but I do respect what you've all invested in order to get where you are. Getting a license does not appear to be easy. I was hoping I could ask for a little advice.

I've got a low altitude flyer in my area who makes repeated passes and I'd like to identify this pilot. It's a private craft out of a municipal airport in Florida. The local tower told me that they have no way of identifying the guy. That didn't sound right to me. Due to his flight path I'm unable to get his tail number.

Anybody have any suggestions? I'm writing on behalf of an entire community. :)

Thanks for your help,
Will
 
It's just under 2 miles. So I'm thinking he's got to be in that tower's airspace. Hey, thanks for the reply Mike.
 
Don't expect much sympathy here.

Here's what the regs say. Be prepared to tell us all how you are determining non-compliance.

91.119 Minimum safe altitudes; general Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft below the following altitudes:
(a) Anywhere – An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface.
(b) Over congested areas – Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open-air assembly of persons, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of the aircraft.
(c) Over other than congested areas – An altitude of 500 feet above the surface except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In that case, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.
 
Ha! Yeah I get that Rob, I'm not expecting sympathy. And thank you for the reply. Just want to contact this pilot and let him know. I'm not out to cause trouble. :) The local airport is Albert Whitted, Saint Pete, FL.
 
WMorgan said:
....
I've got a low altitude flyer in my area who makes repeated passes and I'd like to identify this pilot. .... Due to his flight path I'm unable to get his tail number.
Click to expand...

If he is making repeated passes you should be able to grab his tail number. If you can’t due to his flight path, it is unlikely he is causing an issue.
 
Reviewing the chart. If he is between 1500' and 3000' he needn't talk to anybody. Below 1500' he's in the Whitted airspace and must be in contact with them. Over 3000' he's in St. Pete Charlie airspace and would have to be talking to them.

Between the two, he can do whatever he wants.

So, now that you have some legal reference... how are you measuring his actual altitude?
 
Here is the thing, bonehead pilots make us all look bad if they are truly being bone heads. However, many times complaints are for activities that are well within regulations, but folks who live near the airport just don’t like it. So they make a fuss. General aviation has enough trouble as it is. There is a story a week about how a group of home owners ( who knew the airport was there when they moved in) are trying to close/modify etc. said airport because they don’t like the noise. That may not be the case here, but I hope you see where I’m coming from.
 
WMorgan said:
Hi Everybody:

I'm not a pilot myself but I do respect what you've all invested in order to get where you are. Getting a license does not appear to be easy. I was hoping I could ask for a little advice.

I've got a low altitude flyer in my area who makes repeated passes and I'd like to identify this pilot. It's a private craft out of a municipal airport in Florida. The local tower told me that they have no way of identifying the guy. That didn't sound right to me. Due to his flight path I'm unable to get his tail number.

Anybody have any suggestions? I'm writing on behalf of an entire community. :)

Thanks for your help,
Will
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How low is low. Is it happening where lots of other are flying over and this one is just a lot lower. Can you give us the location? Airport and where you are, like some major cross streets within a few blocks
 
WMorgan said:
.

I've got a low altitude flyer in my area who makes repeated passes and I'd like to identify this pilot. It's a private craft out of a municipal airport in Florida. The local tower told me that they have no way of identifying the guy. That didn't sound right to me. Due to his flight path I'm unable to get his tail number.

Anybody have any suggestions? I'm writing on behalf of an entire community. :)

Thanks for your help,
Will
Click to expand...

Will, respectfully .... if you haven't been able to identify it, how do you know it is private craft out of a local municipal airport? Could well be law enforcement, environmental monitoring, traffic reporter, etc. Or do you just mean small aircraft?
 
Ravioli said:
Reviewing the chart. If he is between 1500' and 3000' he needn't talk to anybody. Below 1500' he's in the Whitted airspace and must be in contact with them. Over 3000' he's in St. Pete Charlie airspace and would have to be talking to them.

Between the two, he can do whatever he wants.

So, now that you have some legal reference... how are you measuring his actual altitude?
Click to expand...

Good stuff Rob
 
Yep, another we all stupid and bought our house right next to an airport and we don’t like planes flying low complaint.

You can call your local FAA Flight Standards District Office to make your complaint. The FAA may be able to determine what plane this is and determine if he is violating a regulation. Given you say you live within 2 miles of an airport with a control tower, I doubt this pilot is in violation.

You can also contact the airport manager to see if they might consider an some operational change.
 
Ooopss... missed something... it's not a 24/7 tower, so during tower closure they can be under 1500' without talking, subject to the minimum rule.

Also, the TPA is 800' so if he is intending landing he will be headed down to that altitude within a few miles of the airport.
 
Everybody:

Hey I really appreciate all these replies. Listen, as I said near the top of the thread I do not want to make trouble for this guy. Me and other just want to identify him so we can tell him what's happening and see what he says. Our location in Saint Pete is around 28th ST and 12th Ave North.

I'm unable to see his tail number because he's passing more or less right over my home. I'm trying to estimate his altitude by holding my thumb up to him as he passes (found that online and I realize it's probably a poor guess). My thumb just covers the body of the plan and a bit of the wings.

Thanks,
Will
 
Van, to answer your question:

" if you haven't been able to identify it, how do you know it is private craft out of a local municipal airport? Could well be law enforcement, environmental monitoring, traffic reporter, etc. Or do you just mean small aircraft?"

Yeah Van, I do mean small aircraft. Prop, definitely not jet. I can see enough of his path to be confident he's at least passing over Albert Whitted on his way. I'd say not law enforcement or traffic reporter because there are no major roads through this neighborhood. As for environmental monitoring, I can't say one way or the other.

Thanks for your reply.
 
Have you had your thumb calibrated recently? Are you using ISO or Milspec calibration procedures? When was your calibration equipment verified?

Seriously though. I hope I've given you enough data to understand it is HIGHLY unlikely the guy is doing anything wrong. Contacting him will not change anything because he is acting within his rights and the regulations.

For a little sympathy, I live 2 miles from an airport. Difference is I CHOSE to move as close as possible to the airport. Sometimes my GF thinks planes "look really low" and I remind her that it's hard to gauge from the ground. She's also a student pilot, so she likes planes too.

and while I've been typing, I heard two bugsmashers go by. I don't think "that loud noise!" I think "Why isn't my annual inspection done?!?"
 
No Rob, haven't calibrated the thumb yet, next maintenance check isn't due till Aug.

The thumb trick is supposed to be a very rough way of estimating altitude. Found it with a google search. Anyway, comparing this guy to other small planes over the same area, this guy is significantly lower. Hey how about this? Are there any regs covering how much noise can be transmitted to the ground? I can easily measure decibels down here. Know of a gadget that will safely measure his altitude? I will not point any lasers at him. I'm hoping for radar.
 
WMorgan said:
Everybody:

Hey I really appreciate all these replies. Listen, as I said near the top of the thread I do not want to make trouble for this guy. Me and other just want to identify him so we can tell him what's happening and see what he says. Our location in Saint Pete is around 28th ST and 12th Ave North.

I'm unable to see his tail number because he's passing more or less right over my home. I'm trying to estimate his altitude by holding my thumb up to him as he passes (found that online and I realize it's probably a poor guess). My thumb just covers the body of the plan and a bit of the wings.

Thanks,
Will
Click to expand...
So I took the liberty of looking up your neighborhood...
Although you are 2.7 miles from Whitted airport, I'd venture a guess that the aircraft may be headed to St. Pete/Clearwater instead, and here is why: your neighborhood is directly under the step down fix for the St Pete/Clearwater ILS-Localizer approach for that airport...what that means, is aircraft can descend over your house to 680 feet MSL (about 600 above you) at your location:

upload_2018-7-1_11-20-34.png
 
Possibly trainers from MacDill Air Force base. I can't speak for that one but the one near us sends the "little airplane" trainers out to our local GA airport to do low passes and generally buzz our neighborhood. To an untrained eye you can't distinguish them from "regular" airplanes. They'll fly around and around and be a noise nuisance for a good while on a regular basis. You can probably identify that if they seem to fly the same route over and over and include repeated approaches to the airport, going missed and around again. If that's who they are I'd be thankful instead of annoyed. But those guys won't get real down close to your house and fly erratically. It's unclear exactly what your plane is doing. Perhaps a video next time would help us.
 
Very likely law enforcement of some type doing surveillance work (a constant racetrack pattern at 1000 feet).
 
This explains a lot. Typically guys out doing IFR training and/or proficiency flights will go down to minimums for multiple passes.

Also explains the "suspect tower" not talking to him.

Enjoy the engine music, it's likely to continue long after you move.
 
Suggestion: Get some video, in a manner that gives some reference to distance and scale. The make & model, markings (if any), direction of flight and maneuvering, if any, would be significant in figuring out what's really going on.

Is there any mosquito abatement going on in your area?

SkyDog58 said:
If he is making repeated passes you should be able to grab his tail number.
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Not necessarily. Two-inch registration marks are legal if it's an airplane more than thirty years old and flown domestically.
 
Guys, gotta say I'm surprised by all the helpful responses. And grateful. Thanks one and all. I'll get some video and post it as you suggested. So what are you all doing in front of your keyboards anyway. Get up there! :)
 
WMorgan said:
Guys, gotta say I'm surprised by all the helpful responses. And grateful. Thanks one and all. I'll get some video and post it as you suggested. So what are you all doing in front of your keyboards anyway. Get up there! :)
Click to expand...

Lol. We are coordinating. Now that we know where you are, standby for mass buzzings. Anyway, most of us care about the neighbors and don’t condone unnecessarily annoying people. Except for each other here on POA.
 
WMorgan said:
Guys, gotta say I'm surprised by all the helpful responses. And grateful. Thanks one and all. I'll get some video and post it as you suggested. So what are you all doing in front of your keyboards anyway. Get up there! :)
Click to expand...
Wishing I was the guy flying over your house! ;)
 
Ravioli said:
This explains a lot. Typically guys out doing IFR training and/or proficiency flights will go down to minimums for multiple passes.

Also explains the "suspect tower" not talking to him.

Enjoy the engine music, it's likely to continue long after you move.
Click to expand...
It also would explain the " he's passing more or less right over my home" every time...
 
Rushie said:
Possibly trainers from MacDill Air Force base. I can't speak for that one but the one near us sends the "little airplane" trainers out to our local GA airport to do low passes and generally buzz our neighborhood. To an untrained eye you can't distinguish them from "regular" airplanes. They'll fly around and around and be a noise nuisance for a good while on a regular basis. You can probably identify that if they seem to fly the same route over and over and include repeated approaches to the airport, going missed and around again. If that's who they are I'd be thankful instead of annoyed. But those guys won't get real down close to your house and fly erratically. It's unclear exactly what your plane is doing. Perhaps a video next time would help us.
Click to expand...
Doubtful--McDill doesn't have "trainers" or anything that could be mistaken for a little airplane. The base is home to KC-135Rs and C-37As (G-V); and it doesn't have an aeroclub.
 
Pilawt said:
Not necessarily. Two-inch registration marks are legal if it's an airplane more than thirty years old and flown domestically.
Click to expand...

True but if I had a problem with a low flying aircraft, I would use binoculars or a camera with telephoto lens to get the N# if possible. At the very least I could get a good picture of the aircraft and its markings and then go to the airport and see if I can identify it. It wouldn't be easy but if I was genuinely being bothered by an actual low flying plane, I would figure it out.
 
tawood said:
It also would explain the " he's passing more or less right over my home" every time...
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Your replies and others crossed mine while I was typing, I think you nailed it. The general public has no idea there is a whole detailed map with "roads" and "corridors" all over the sky. But who would think to look that up when you're considering buying a house.

If this is what's going on I recommend OP find something else to obsess about. I say that with all empathy: I myself am someone who gets all in a twist over perceived annoyances. Don't get me started on neighbors' dogs barking. Or running you leaf blower on Sunday morning.

On the other hand if there's some cowboy breaking regulation and truly buzzing you too low, we do want to help you report him! Those are the ones that will make it harder for us to keep our flying liberty.
 
kkoran said:
Doubtful--McDill doesn't have "trainers" or anything that could be mistaken for a little airplane. The base is home to KC-135Rs and C-37As (G-V); and it doesn't have an aeroclub.
Click to expand...

Ah, thanks. I didn't know what they did there.
 
See my post #24, [edit] Ye who shall remain nameless, since you deleted your post ;)[/edit]. Dude has landed now, but did the same flight last Thursday, and back in May as well. If not LEO, certainly some sort of authentic activity. Regardless, 1k AGL, which has been stated is not low. Our friend needs to cal the thumb.

And folks wonder why I want anon mode for my ADS-B . . .
 
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