How to Handle Altitude Restrictions That Are Not Relayed

ARFlyer

ARFlyer

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I've had this happen several times flying out of our local class C. There is a VFR altitude restriction of 2500' and an IFR of 4500' until contacting departure. Several times I haven't been given a restriction by clearance nor tower, however on contacting departure I get lip for busting 2500'. I'll politely tell them I had no restriction given to me by tower. DEP reply every time is "they were suppose to, it's our airspace".

So ATC members , how should I go about handling this before a phone number is given out to me?
 
Ask on the ground if it's a known issue. Also, is it published in The DP?
 
Unit74 said:
Ask on the ground if it's a known issue. Also, is it published in The DP?
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What DP would there be for a VFR departure? That seems to be where the issue lies.

What airport are we talking about?

It's very typical for a Class C tower to give VFR departure instructions that include altitude restrictions - probably for that very purpose of keeping VFR traffic out of TRACON's hair until ready. I don't know how the typical VFR pilot would know it without being told.

ARFlyer said:
how should I go about handling this before a phone number is given out to me?
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Be proactive. Ask for that phone number and call to speak with a supervisor. Just be sure that when they pull the tape it doesn't show CD telling you to "maintain at or below 2500" after departure ;)
 
midlifeflyer said:
Be proactive. Ask for that phone number and call to speak with a supervisor. Just be sure that when they pull the tape it doesn't show CD telling you to "maintain at or below 2500" after departure ;)
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More importantly, be sure you didn't read it back ;)
 
Unit74 said:
Ask on the ground if it's a known issue. Also, is it published in The DP?
Click to expand...

It isn't listed on the departure. The only reason I know about it is that I've asked before when they didn't tell me.

The airport is Little Rock, KLIT. I
 
mkosmo said:
More importantly, be sure you didn't read it back ;)
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ARFlyer said:
It isn't listed on the departure. The only reason I know about it is that I've asked before when they didn't tell me.

The airport is Little Rock, KLIT. I
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I don't see anything on the chart or on the AFD to tell you 2500 is a transition point you can't cross before being handed off VFR.
 
ARFlyer said:
I've had this happen several times flying out of our local class C. There is a VFR altitude restriction of 2500' and an IFR of 4500' until contacting departure. Several times I haven't been given a restriction by clearance nor tower, however on contacting departure I get lip for busting 2500'. I'll politely tell them I had no restriction given to me by tower. DEP reply every time is "they were suppose to, it's our airspace".

So ATC members , how should I go about handling this before a phone number is given out to me?
Click to expand...

Assuming your account is correct there is nothing more for you to handle. If local SOP calls for the tower to issue an altitude restriction and none is issued the problem is in the tower.
 
This is a case where when I check in with he next controller I'll say "Cessna 3AK climbing 2.5 for 4.5"
 
If your flying in the same airspace ,all the time,you should know the restrictions. I have always been given the heading and altitude restrictions ,before being allowed to taxi.
 
If I understand the post, Departure says the airspace "is their airspace" but the inner ring of the Class C is SFC-43 and the outer ring is 15-43. If departing from KLIT then from liftoff to 4300 is "their airspace" also. Without some NOTAM or a AFD statement regarding maintaining at or blo 2500 until contacting departure, it seems like a whizzing contest between the tower and the tracon. It would seem that being in the SFC portion of the Class C talking to the tower which clears the takeoff satisfies the "establish contact" requirement for operation in the airspace.
 
I wouldn't assume it is universal (might be there). Sometimes VFR departures from IAD are restricted by the tower to runway heading and 1500, sometimes they aren't.
 
ARFlyer said:
I've had this happen several times flying out of our local class C. There is a VFR altitude restriction of 2500' and an IFR of 4500' until contacting departure. Several times I haven't been given a restriction by clearance nor tower, however on contacting departure I get lip for busting 2500'. I'll politely tell them I had no restriction given to me by tower. DEP reply every time is "they were suppose to, it's our airspace".

So ATC members , how should I go about handling this before a phone number is given out to me?
Click to expand...
ARFlyer said:
It isn't listed on the departure. The only reason I know about it is that I've asked before when they didn't tell me.

The airport is Little Rock, KLIT. I
Click to expand...

I can see nothing you have done wrong unless there is something you have left out of your description of what happened. What exactly do you mean by "the departure" when you said it isn't listed on the departure?
 
luvflyin said:
I can see nothing you have done wrong unless there is something you have left out of your description of what happened. What exactly do you mean by "the departure" when you said it isn't listed on the departure?
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I was saying nothing is listed in the IFR DP about the altitudes
 
ARFlyer said:
Nope, if clearance nor tower gives your the restriction then you'd have no idea.
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If it's not indicated anywhere and not given to you they can hardly expect you to abide by it.
 
ARFlyer said:
Right, which gets into the thing someone pointed out above that it's a APP vs TWR issue.
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And I think Little Rock's TRACON is just below the tower. If they want to have a ****ing match, the guys in the cab have a definite advantage.
 
flyingron said:
And I think Little Rock's TRACON is just below the tower. If they want to have a ****ing match, the guys in the cab have a definite advantage.
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LMAO. There sure seem to be some "issues" at Little Rock ATC. Highly unprofessional for the controller to hang out the dirty laundry over the air like that.
 
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