How to fly direct w/KNS80??

[bjohnson]

I have never used a KNS80 but from what I have read you can file Direct. How do you fly direct w/KNS80? Do you have to enter user waypoints? Is this difficult/time consuming? I am looking a a plane that has no IFR GPS but does have a KNS80 already in the panel. Thanks

 

[tonycondon]

it uses "phantom VORs" so draw your direct line on the low/enroute chart then note a radial/distance from vor/dme's along your route. just make sure you are within reception of the VOR. KNS-80s are the cheapest way to go direct. not too hard to run either. getting old though, many are starting to crap out. have fun

 

[TMetzinger]

You need a flight planner that will generate PBD (place/bearing/distance) waypoints for your direct route, (i.e. JFK/252/50, DJB/175/45). Since the KNS80 only stores four waypoints, I believe, you need to base them off of high altitude VORs for longer trips, so that there is sufficient overlap in the service volumes.

KNS 80 is a cool unit, but you really would get more utility out of an IFR GPS, unless your airplane doesn't already have a NAV radio.

 

[tonycondon]

pencil and plotter will work too. KNS80 may only store 4, but you can enter them on the fly too

 

[Ken Ibold]

pencil and plotter will work too. KNS80 may only store 4, but you can enter them on the fly too

The challenge, of course, is when you get vectored out of your way for a period of time, and then re-cleared direct. You must then re-enter new waypoints, but it's cumbersome to figure them out in the air because you have to re-draw your line and remeasure the distance from your waypoints to the applicable VORs. When I had one, typically I would use a handheld GPS to give me a bearing and would fly that while I re-did the calculations.

 

[Pilawt]

The KNS80 Pilots Guide is available by download from the Bendix-King website.

My airplane came to me with two good coms but only one nav and no glideslope, so a used KNS80 was an economical way to add the second VOR, GS, DME and RNAV all in one swell foop. It's easy to use once you get the hang of it. The trickiest part is remembering to switch back to 'VOR' mode when you're done navigating by 'RNAV'.

You enter frequency, radial and distance for a VOR/DME or VORTAC within range, and the VOR indicator and DME act as if you physically moved the station to that location. I use the Flight Guide airport directory, and for every airport it lists radials and distances from two nearby VORs, which is very handy. It's a little more difficult to plot a direct route farther than the range of a single VORTAC station.

Best part of the KNS80 -- you don't have to buy a database subscription for it!

-- Pilawt

 

[Fast n' Furious]

I have one in my Mooney 252. While it doesn't have all the functionality of even the most basic panel mount GPS, it is IFR certified and is very easy to use. I like it a bunch for what I use it for.

 

[bjohnson]

You need a flight planner that will generate PBD (place/bearing/distance) waypoints for your direct route, (i.e. JFK/252/50, DJB/175/45). Since the KNS80 only stores four waypoints, I believe, you need to base them off of high altitude VORs for longer trips, so that there is sufficient overlap in the service volumes.

KNS 80 is a cool unit, but you really would get more utility out of an IFR GPS, unless your airplane doesn't already have a NAV radio.

Can you suggest a free flight planner that will generate PBD waypoints? I just looked at AOPA's and PBD waypoints are not an option.

The challenge, of course, is when you get vectored out of your way for a period of time, and then re-cleared direct. You must then re-enter new waypoints, but it's cumbersome to figure them out in the air because you have to re-draw your line and remeasure the distance from your waypoints to the applicable VORs. When I had one, typically I would use a handheld GPS to give me a bearing and would fly that while I re-did the calculations.

That would be a challenge to re-draw/measure while under way. I do have a 496 I would be using in conjunction with the KNS-80.

It looks like and IFR GPS would be at the top of the list for upgrades.

 

[Ken Ibold]

That would be a challenge to re-draw/measure while under way. I do have a 496 I would be using in conjunction with the KNS-80.

I recall getting a big reroute as I was heading south out of Wisconsin after OSH one year. My line had to cross the overlap of two enroute charts and be figured in the cockpit of a Mooney. Truth be told, I just flew the handheld's heading. This was 10 years ago when direct was not a common clearance, and at one point ATC did ask me what heading I would be flying. I reported the GPS number and the controller cleared me for that heading. No harm, no foul.

 

[gismo]

I recall getting a big reroute as I was heading south out of Wisconsin after OSH one year. My line had to cross the overlap of two enroute charts and be figured in the cockpit of a Mooney. Truth be told, I just flew the handheld's heading. This was 10 years ago when direct was not a common clearance, and at one point ATC did ask me what heading I would be flying. I reported the GPS number and the controller cleared me for that heading. No harm, no foul.

I've talked to many pilots who filed and flew "RNAV direct" using their LORAN who claimed that this was perfectly legal because they had a KNS-80 on board even though they never used the thing and in some cases didn't even know how.

 

[bjohnson]

I recall getting a big reroute as I was heading south out of Wisconsin after OSH one year. My line had to cross the overlap of two enroute charts and be figured in the cockpit of a Mooney. Truth be told, I just flew the handheld's heading. This was 10 years ago when direct was not a common clearance, and at one point ATC did ask me what heading I would be flying. I reported the GPS number and the controller cleared me for that heading. No harm, no foul.

I have heard you can file an IFR route using VOR fixes and once enroute call ATC, request a heading for direct and if approved fly it. Is this a common practice?

 

[gismo]

Can you suggest a free flight planner that will generate PBD waypoints? I just looked at AOPA's and PBD waypoints are not an option.

Not free, but Flitesoft Pro (www.rmstek.com) will do that and a lot more for only $200. They offer the most bank/buck of all the commercial flight planning software tools.

[/quote]That would be a challenge to re-draw/measure while under way. I do have a 496 I would be using in conjunction with the KNS-80.[/quote]

That's a tougher nut to crack. Remember you not only have to figure the correct radial and distance to each VOR used, you need to know the each VOR/DME is in service and that you will remain inside the SSV of each one used.

I'd think that a manufacturer of handheld GPSs would provide this feature as it would be fairly easy to implement there. I don't know of any that do though. I suppose someone could create such an application for a PDA, maybe such a thing is available on the internet?

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

I have heard you can file an IFR route using VOR fixes and once enroute call ATC, request a heading for direct and if approved fly it. Is this a common practice?

I have heard it and used it a lot.
I think they want you to say 'radar vectors' vs heading, not sure the significance of that nit.
Good to always have a lost comm plan in mind when under RVs too.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Can you suggest a free flight planner that will generate PBD waypoints? I just looked at AOPA's and PBD waypoints are not an option.

DUATs will do it. Choose "Direct routing for RNAV" in the popup, or if you want to use the user selected routing, put a *R in between the waypoints of your choice. Note that this is different from the "Direct routing for GPS" as the RNAV option takes into account slant-range distance.

That would be a challenge to re-draw/measure while under way.

Yup. The handheld will certainly help while you recalculate things.

BTW, your equipment suffix should be /I. It's amazing how many people that fly these boxen don't know that. /A is plain old VOR/DME (not RNAV) and /G is specific to GPS. /I is for RNAV and may give the controllers a clue that you're not gonna be able to punch in direct to 1000 miles away in three seconds.

Overall, the KNS 80 is fairly easy to use. It does only store 4 waypoints but you can enter new ones on the fly. The manual is pretty small as operation is quite straightforward.

Remember that, unlike a GPS, you will need to put the proper course on the OBS. Effectively, the waypoints you enter become "virtual VOR's" and if you don't have the proper course selected, you won't get the desired results. The cool thing is, it makes intersection holds easier than a /A bird as you can effectively move the VOR to wherever you're holding.

A nice 430W should be right at the top of your list of upgrades though.

 

[HPNFlyGirl]

Im with Kent and the 430.

 

[Ed Guthrie]

I recall getting a big reroute as I was heading south out of Wisconsin after OSH one year. My line had to cross the overlap of two enroute charts and be figured in the cockpit of a Mooney. Truth be told, I just flew the handheld's heading. This was 10 years ago when direct was not a common clearance, and at one point ATC did ask me what heading I would be flying. I reported the GPS number and the controller cleared me for that heading. No harm, no foul.

Quick and simple VOR/DME RNAV solution to the off course cleared direct: Find your current radial/distance, dial that into the box, ask ATC for a suggested heading, spin that number into the OBS, fly. Meanwhile, mark the point (radial/distance) on the chart, use the plotter to lay the line according to ATC's suggested heading, extend the line, look for more VORs/radials/distance (waypoints) and compute, then dial those computed waypoints into the box as you go. Yes, you need to correct (or remove the correction, actually) for wind, if any.

You could substitute the handheld GPS information for ATC's input and then verify off the chart that the line actually goes where you want to be going (I do the same with ATC's suggested heading).

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

Dang we have it easy now, all that configuring reminds me of the first loran I had..a boat loran. I think I remember counting button pushes in order to get the box to proved any useful information and it was ~100. First, you had to tell it where you were!

 

[TangoWhiskey]

Best thing about the KNS-80, IMO, is you never have to pay for database updates...

Of course, it can't tell you the freq's, runway lengths, or approaches at a field, but for enroute nav.... the "database update" is the current chart you're using.