How to be productive during solo?

kimberlyanne546

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Kimberly
So I *thought* I had a flight with my instructor on Saturday, and I already miss my airplane since Sunday was the last time I flew the little 152.

He calls today and says "our time right now would best be spent on the ground preparing you for your flight test". (Darn, I think)

Then he adds, "But I see you have the plane reserved, and I'm not free until 3pm - do you want to do some solo at 1?"

(Excitement)

So he said pattern only or maybe practice area. And I only have less than 2 hours of solo "left" for my requirements to be met, due to long solo flights before which I probably should have kept shorter.

I am wondering how to not just "have fun" and actually make the most of my time? Stay in the pattern and practice landings? Or go to the practice area with a copy of the PTS and practice manuevers?

I haven't done stalls since March so I won't do those but I guess slow flight would be okay.

Not sure why but it seems so much easier to get a lot done in a very short amount of time when there is an instructor there telling you what to do.

My weak points? Not sure about "everything" but definitely VOR and steep turns.

Did all of you simply "have fun" or towards the end did you hunker down and create your own flight test solo? I haven't had any checkride prep (yet) otherwise I would not be posting this question, since I'm assuming my instructor will go over a lot during the next few lessons to give me a better idea what to do.

Thanks for the help so that I can make the most out of my Saturday solo,

Kimberly
 
Have fun AND practice your weaker spots (remember to keep that speed up during steep runs...makes the easier).

--Sent from my Windows Phone using Board Express
 
Not knowing where you're at in some things makes this hard.

I can tell you the things a fully-rated person goes out to practice are often, "whatever's in the PTS that I'm usually bad at".

Starting with a few things you're GOOD at first, is a good confidence builder, though. I love.... love love love... absolutely love... steep turns. They're almost never a problem for me. I also love.... love love love... full flap short-field landings.

So I do one or the other (depending on practice area or pattern work) and get to "feeling in the groove" (it is supposed to be FUN after all) and then go do some stuff I don't like as much. (Obviously I can usually fly all of them to PTS standards, but as Dr. Bruce says... Don't Accept Minimum Standards!)

I might go purposefully find a runway that's not aligned with the wind and do some x-wind landings, or maybe break out the brain cells and calculate a problem like "how far can I glide from here" in-flight. (I know Kent plays that particular game too, since he's always figuring out how to glide over large bodies of water. ;) )

Example... If the PTS says I gotta hold altitude +-100 feet (just making this up here), I'll pick a calm or mildly bumpy day and try to hold +-20 feet for the entire flight. Or I'll try to "paint the airspeed needle on" and hold a perfect airspeed for each leg of downwind, base, and final for my aircraft +-1 knot. Something that'll make me work hard for it.

So that kinda led into another option... tighten up the PTS standards if you feel up to it. Cut 'em in half and give yourself a workout, but then also keep in mind whether you stayed within the PTS standards too, so you can pat yourself on the back later if you didn't hit your personal standards... if you're the type that'll "beat yourself up"... I am. :)

As one of my CFI's said once, "If you can fly it level 50' high, you can fly it level right on your altitude, can't you?" Dang evil CFI's... it was all trimmed and perfect and... yeah, he's right... sigh! :D

"The standards tighten up for higher ratings anyway, so might as well get used to 'em now!", was another good CFI line.

Later when you can fly with other pilots, they can help with "surprise" things (as can a CFI of course!), like... "So where you going to put this thing down if the engine were to quit right here?"

I don't let other pilots mess with the throttle for those "surprises" like that, but a CFI will certainly pull the engine to idle and make it a real issue, so I usually reach over and do it myself at that point... plus it's a good joke, "I dunno, let's find out." :D

(You don't want to ever really mean that "I dunno" part, though!)

Other pilots are also great for things like, "If you can't land it on the third touchdown zone marker, you owe me a Coke/Beer/whatever." Awww, man... ok, you're on! Wanna go double or nothing? :)

Executive summary: You probably know some of your strengths and weaknesses at this point, maybe not all, but challenge yourself. It's a fun way to keep your head in the game.

Another good suggestion here is to pick up any of Barry Schiff's "The Proficient Pilot" series of books -- he has good stuff in there that pilots can and should go do, like flying a pattern and figuring out, down to the knot, your particular airplane's cruise speed... or finding out by actively writing down a combination of power settings and flap settings that result in specific desired airspeeds starting from a high altitude over the practice area (you can do these on a long XC too...)... so you can make up a little cheat sheet for your airplane and memorize it.

All sorts of good stuff in those books. Maybe targeted a little more for a pilot who's past the rating and wants to learn a bit more, but certainly nothing wrong with reading them, and getting a leg up on being a well-rounded aviator!

There's all sorts of fun ways to challenge the brain, and always something still to be learned about aviating. It's just that it's been a long time, and I don't remember what I knew and didn't know to recommend something at the "almost done with all the solo time and had the long XC done" stage.

I seem to recall that my instructor said something similar to yours... at this point, your flying is pretty decent, now you gotta hit the books and do a lot of oral quizzes to get the knowledge flowing freely from your brain and mouth for the checkride later. You'll keep flying, but crackin' the books and doing the oral stuff is real important at some stage that I've long-forgotten. :) Then you find yourself flying again, reciting the PTS standards out loud from memory and the instructor quizzing and drilling you with oral questions from the right seat while you're doing Private PTS maneuvers at the same time. Brain overload, great "distractions".

You get a feel for what real distractions can do to the flying you thought you had "down cold" at that point in the training and learn to tell people in the right seat to wait, be quiet, or otherwise stop overloading you as you prioritize as an almost-ready-to-be-PIC.

Not too long after that the CFI will do a good review of your logbook, and start the process to schedule a DE... make sure you're prepped and have your paperwork in order, and before you know it, you'll be sitting in an airplane on the ramp with a stranger who's quietly watching your every move, and you'll be thinking, "Am I ready for this?! Really?!"

It's a great experience, start to finish. Savor it, because you can't really re-live it. It's similar for other ratings I hear, and checkrides are always a bit of a raise of the pulse and blood pressure...

But nothing is ever quite like that first Private checkride and the prep leading up to it. You can't really describe it until you've done it, and you can't really ever go back and do it again, either.

I *still* want to fix one of the crappy landings I made on my Private checkride, over a decade ago. I can still see that one landing going to crap in my mind's eye. I recovered "okay" enough to pass that day, and the other landings were dead on... but that one still is there, in the back of my head, along with the sweat and warm day, adrenaline and nervous knees when I got out of the plane, and walked to the DE's office upstairs of a hangar, and... all of it. I can still see the office and remember the patient quiet questions asked before the flight during the oral, and the little look that said, "Is there any more?" when I forgot something and had to think harder or say I knew exactly where to look it up.

And it wasn't THAT bad a landing either really, but it gives a feel for how that day is forever burnt into your mind.
 
What Denverpilot said, which was quite a mouthful (so to speak).
I was all business as a student pilot, and I think that it's the best way to be. You'll have the rest of your days to enjoy the world beneath you.
Plus, sightseeing is much more fun with pax. Now is the time for practicing the things you won't practice until your BFR.
 
What do you plan to do once you get your ticket?
If it's "use an airplane to get from point a to point b" then focus on what you have to do to get things done.
If it's "Whatever, putz around in the air and have a good time." Then, what's the rush? Putz around in the air and have a good time.
 
I send my students out to practice anything we've already done. At this point you should be able to do everything in the PTS, and it also sounds like you need stall review.
 
I've been told that it's a good idea to verbalize what you're doing while you're on your checkride. (Which, I did on mine.) Helps the examiner know what you're thinking - why you're doing the things you're doing, when you're doing them.

So, you might practice doing that as you go through whichever maneuvers you decide to work on. (Just make sure you stay away from the PTT button! ;) )
 
Helps the examiner know what you're thinking
Is that a good thing? :rofl:

Actually I've heard the opposite advice about a checkride. Answer the questions. If the examiner wants more they will ask you. You don't need to try to tell them everything you think you know about a particular subject, though, because you will surely say something incorrect.

As far as practicing, I think it's a good idea to practice maneuvers you think need some work, that is unless you don't quite understand what you are doing wrong and think you need extra coaching. But then reward yourself with something you enjoy. :)
 
Might not do much for PTS/checkride stuff if you that's what you're asking about, but you can also so some fun stuff that promotes hand-eye coordination and rudder skills. Dutch rolls - pick a point on the horizon and roll the airplane back and forth to increasingly steep bank angles while keeping the nose perfectly on a point. Takes a lot of rudder, rhythm, and a bit of cross-controlling. Practice perfect rudder coordination. Roll back and forth quickly to steep banks (but unlike dutch rolls) using the rudder such that you feel absolutely no slide in your seat. Forget the skid ball, don't look at it. Learn to feel coordination in your seat. Practice stalls using the rudder to keep the wings perfectly level while the nose drops. Draw a box in the sky with the nose while keeping the wings level. Got that? Now draw a circle with the nose while keeping the wings level. That's a pretty good exercise in indepenent rudder/aileron inputs...though pretty useless for helping you pass your checkride. :) It's kinda like aerobatics for non-aerobatic airplanes...a way to work on things that are challenging and require precision maneuvering without actually getting inverted or putting real stress on the plane. How about practice power-off approaches? I'd bet you might not do those all the time. How about practicing power-off approaches plus slips to land...putting the airplane exactly where you want. You can build skills and find satisfaction in the smallest things. This seems to be a character trait of good pilots.
 
I really liked what Denverpilot said. Start and end with something you enjoy, and in between do things that you know need work, or that you haven't done in a while.

This just gave me an idea. I'm gonna take all the PTS tasks, and build a little application that will prompt for the number of tasks to perform, the PTS(es) to include, and will then randomly generate a task list. Could make flight reviews more fun... Sort of like the Car Talk "Wheel of Automotive Misfortune".

I can see it now... I'll sit with a student, and I'll say "Private Pilot, Instrument Rating, 8 tasks.... Tell him what he's won, Johnny!"

He's won:
Steep Turns!
A partial-panel non-precision approach, with a hold!
A discussion of Carburetor Icing!
A short field takeoff!
Turns Around A Point!
A power-on stall!
Navigation via Pilotage!
The Smoke/Fire Emergency!
And a year's supply of Rice-a-Roni, the San Francisco Treat!

Seriously, this could be kind of fun!
 
Actually I've heard the opposite advice about a checkride. Answer the questions. If the examiner wants more they will ask you. You don't need to try to tell them everything you think you know about a particular subject, though, because you will surely say something incorrect.

I think what he was referring to was talking through what you are doing during the flight test. I have heard universally that it is something examiners like to see (or hear I suppose). You don't need to be talking quite as much as you would for a CFI ride, but you don't want to just sit there with your mouth shut flying the airplane.

Agree with you comments on the oral - don't go running off with more than is asked for....because you might just open yourself up to additional questions along the lines of "....well, since you mentioned that, tell me more....."
 
This just gave me an idea. I'm gonna take all the PTS tasks, and build a little application ...

Could just do it the old-fashioned way with a hat and paper strips. ;)

Or build up the "Wheel of Misfortune"... What emergency will you have simulated today by your CFI? Spin the wheel and find out! ;)
 
Is that a good thing? :rofl:

Actually I've heard the opposite advice about a checkride. Answer the questions. If the examiner wants more they will ask you. You don't need to try to tell them everything you think you know about a particular subject, though, because you will surely say something incorrect.

As far as practicing, I think it's a good idea to practice maneuvers you think need some work, that is unless you don't quite understand what you are doing wrong and think you need extra coaching. But then reward yourself with something you enjoy. :)

Post #7 had it right, you have it wrong. As a one-time designated examiner I can tell you that verbalizing is the way to go. Sometimes when an applicant is performing a maneuver the examiner might think "Why is s/he doing it that way?" Hearing the applicant's thought process verbalized tells the examiner a lot about the applicant's readiness.

Bob Gardner
 
Kim,

I am in a much different situation than you. You had to chase the instructor out of the plane with a stick and I fully expect that along with that came LOTS and LOTS of landings. If I were at your stage and needed to build solo time I would just do touch and go's or in my case stop and go's, but that probably would apply to me, much more than to you.

My $0.02,
Doc
 
Post #7 had it right, you have it wrong. As a one-time designated examiner I can tell you that verbalizing is the way to go. Sometimes when an applicant is performing a maneuver the examiner might think "Why is s/he doing it that way?" Hearing the applicant's thought process verbalized tells the examiner a lot about the applicant's readiness.

Bob Gardner
I've been told the opposite from way more than one examiner.
 
Kimberly: I see a lot of good suggestions here. My advice though is to work on the PTS maneuvers. That is what you will be evaluated on and you want to be at your best. I agree also with Bob about letting the DPE know what you are doing. The DPE is an experienced pilot and a lot of them will comment on things that may help you throughout your flying career. Even if they don't, you are letting them know what you are planning and it will help you as you step through the procedures. My $.02 worth.
 
Here are some of the things I did out in the practice area when solo. Of course, I only did these things solo after my instructor had shown me how to do them correctly and gave me the green light to practice them alone.

1. Slow flight and power-off stalls

2. Ground reference maneuvers

3. Steep turns

4. Dutch rolls

5. Setting up for emergency landings (be sure you know where all the obstacles are though, and don't let yourself get too low before recovering)

6. Power-on stalls -- I only did these a couple of times by myself, and still don't care much for them.

Basically, I did most of the PTS maneuvers out there and then some. If in doubt, ask your instructor what he feels you're ready for.
 
So he said pattern only or maybe practice area. And I only have less than 2 hours of solo "left" for my requirements to be met, due to long solo flights before which I probably should have kept shorter.

Doesn't mean you can't put in more...

I am wondering how to not just "have fun" and actually make the most of my time? Stay in the pattern and practice landings? Or go to the practice area with a copy of the PTS and practice manuevers?

I haven't done stalls since March so I won't do those but I guess slow flight would be okay.
Why would slow flight be ok, but stalls not?

Not sure why but it seems so much easier to get a lot done in a very short amount of time when there is an instructor there telling you what to do.

My weak points? Not sure about "everything" but definitely VOR and steep turns.

Did all of you simply "have fun" or towards the end did you hunker down and create your own flight test solo? I haven't had any checkride prep (yet) otherwise I would not be posting this question, since I'm assuming my instructor will go over a lot during the next few lessons to give me a better idea what to do.

Thanks for the help so that I can make the most out of my Saturday solo,

Kimberly

Go do some steep turns, 60* bank, track a VOR radial during slow flight and then do a no flap landing, a Short field landing and a normal one.
 
Are you talking flight test or oral though?
I've heard that advice specifically for the oral. In fact it's usually part of the briefing the examiner gives before the test begins, at least in recent memory. I guess I wouldn't expect people to talk much during the flight test unless it's for a CFI rating or in a crew situation where you are talking to the other crew member but not the examiner.
 
I've heard that advice specifically for the oral. In fact it's usually part of the briefing the examiner gives before the test begins, at least in recent memory. I guess I wouldn't expect people to talk much during the flight test unless it's for a CFI rating or in a crew situation where you are talking to the other crew member but not the examiner.

Okay, then we're in agreement. We were talking more about verbalizing things during the flight test in the airplane - I don't know of any DPE's that will fail you for not talking, but have definitely been told that it helps alot if you can verbalize your actions.
 
What DenverPilot said, which was well phrased.

If you haven't done stalls since march, review the procedure and do stalls. Just make sure you have altitude and you'll be fine with even a bad / slow recovery the first time. It should be natural.

I played find my friends houses with VOR for my solo time. Or find landmarks.
 
I've been told the opposite from way more than one examiner.

I think you and Bob are talking about different things:

Bob's saying (I think) "Talk through the maneuvers."
Your saying (I think) "Don't volunteer info on the oral part."

I've heard both of those and they are not mutually exclusive.

Anyway. I think that's what's happening.

John
 
Kim,

I am in a much different situation than you. You had to chase the instructor out of the plane with a stick and I fully expect that along with that came LOTS and LOTS of landings. If I were at your stage and needed to build solo time I would just do touch and go's or in my case stop and go's, but that probably would apply to me, much more than to you.

My $0.02,
Doc

I don't know how to put this "the right way" but I think landings are harder to judge - whether to "pass" or "fail" on - outside of the centerline / distance from a specified point / etc . . . there are many ways to land a plane in a way that meets or exceeds the PTS requirements on the checkride. It is for that reason I thought some practice area work might be better. Steep turns, for example, are pretty well defined in the PTS regarding what is and is not passable.

Oh and Doc - I was glad to read that you did some landings on your own without any help! You are getting close to your tail dragger solo now.


Kimberly
 
Bob's saying (I think) "Talk through the maneuvers."
Your saying (I think) "Don't volunteer info on the oral part."

I've heard both of those and they are not mutually exclusive.
That's true but I wouldn't be inclined to talk through the maneuvers either unless it was for a CFI rating. Whatever works for you, though. I guess my philosophy is that it's better to say too little than too much, not that anyone would fail you for saying something wrong but it could prompt more questions and prolong the event.
 
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For this trip I'd go for the "fun" part. Head out to where you are comfortable and just enjoy the scenery, check out something that looks interesting. Try out a few different configurations, slow flight or turns to get a better feeling for how the plane flies in relation to your control. Wouldn't sweat about maintaining altitude or direction. Really, this whole flying thing comes down to learning how to make the plane do what you want, when you want. Flying is supposed to be fun! There will be plenty to time to make sure you meet the PTS standards, but for this flight - go enjoy yourself!

Gary
 
For this trip I'd go for the "fun" part. Head out to where you are comfortable and just enjoy the scenery, check out something that looks interesting. Try out a few different configurations, slow flight or turns to get a better feeling for how the plane flies in relation to your control. Wouldn't sweat about maintaining altitude or direction. Really, this whole flying thing comes down to learning how to make the plane do what you want, when you want. Flying is supposed to be fun! There will be plenty to time to make sure you meet the PTS standards, but for this flight - go enjoy yourself!

Gary

Unfortunately, I already had the "go enjoy yourself" practice area flight. I was hoping to get more done this time. Of the 10 required hours of solo, I'm down to only 1 or so left, and therefore there may not be that many more solo flights, if any . . . . depending on several factors, not the least of which is money. Flying is expensive.
 
depending on several factors, not the least of which is money. Flying is expensive.

Yep, that is true!! Well then, maybe the most cost effective is pattern work. Flying precise pattern, holding desired rate , accurate turns, holding the airspeeds you want coupled with different types of landings, short, soft, normal, maybe even a no flap landing. Whatever it turns out to be, still tury to enjoy it.

Gary
 
Not knowing where you're at in some things makes this hard.

I can tell you the things a fully-rated person goes out to practice are often, "whatever's in the PTS that I'm usually bad at".

Starting with a few things you're GOOD at first, is a good confidence builder, though. I love.... love love love... absolutely love... steep turns. They're almost never a problem for me. I also love.... love love love... full flap short-field landings.

So I do one or the other (depending on practice area or pattern work) and get to "feeling in the groove" (it is supposed to be FUN after all) and then go do some stuff I don't like as much. (Obviously I can usually fly all of them to PTS standards, but as Dr. Bruce says... Don't Accept Minimum Standards!)

I might go purposefully find a runway that's not aligned with the wind and do some x-wind landings, or maybe break out the brain cells and calculate a problem like "how far can I glide from here" in-flight. (I know Kent plays that particular game too, since he's always figuring out how to glide over large bodies of water. ;) )

Example... If the PTS says I gotta hold altitude +-100 feet (just making this up here), I'll pick a calm or mildly bumpy day and try to hold +-20 feet for the entire flight. Or I'll try to "paint the airspeed needle on" and hold a perfect airspeed for each leg of downwind, base, and final for my aircraft +-1 knot. Something that'll make me work hard for it.

So that kinda led into another option... tighten up the PTS standards if you feel up to it. Cut 'em in half and give yourself a workout, but then also keep in mind whether you stayed within the PTS standards too, so you can pat yourself on the back later if you didn't hit your personal standards... if you're the type that'll "beat yourself up"... I am. :)

As one of my CFI's said once, "If you can fly it level 50' high, you can fly it level right on your altitude, can't you?" Dang evil CFI's... it was all trimmed and perfect and... yeah, he's right... sigh! :D

"The standards tighten up for higher ratings anyway, so might as well get used to 'em now!", was another good CFI line.

Later when you can fly with other pilots, they can help with "surprise" things (as can a CFI of course!), like... "So where you going to put this thing down if the engine were to quit right here?"

I don't let other pilots mess with the throttle for those "surprises" like that, but a CFI will certainly pull the engine to idle and make it a real issue, so I usually reach over and do it myself at that point... plus it's a good joke, "I dunno, let's find out." :D

(You don't want to ever really mean that "I dunno" part, though!)

Other pilots are also great for things like, "If you can't land it on the third touchdown zone marker, you owe me a Coke/Beer/whatever." Awww, man... ok, you're on! Wanna go double or nothing? :)

Executive summary: You probably know some of your strengths and weaknesses at this point, maybe not all, but challenge yourself. It's a fun way to keep your head in the game.

Another good suggestion here is to pick up any of Barry Schiff's "The Proficient Pilot" series of books -- he has good stuff in there that pilots can and should go do, like flying a pattern and figuring out, down to the knot, your particular airplane's cruise speed... or finding out by actively writing down a combination of power settings and flap settings that result in specific desired airspeeds starting from a high altitude over the practice area (you can do these on a long XC too...)... so you can make up a little cheat sheet for your airplane and memorize it.

All sorts of good stuff in those books. Maybe targeted a little more for a pilot who's past the rating and wants to learn a bit more, but certainly nothing wrong with reading them, and getting a leg up on being a well-rounded aviator!

There's all sorts of fun ways to challenge the brain, and always something still to be learned about aviating. It's just that it's been a long time, and I don't remember what I knew and didn't know to recommend something at the "almost done with all the solo time and had the long XC done" stage.

I seem to recall that my instructor said something similar to yours... at this point, your flying is pretty decent, now you gotta hit the books and do a lot of oral quizzes to get the knowledge flowing freely from your brain and mouth for the checkride later. You'll keep flying, but crackin' the books and doing the oral stuff is real important at some stage that I've long-forgotten. :) Then you find yourself flying again, reciting the PTS standards out loud from memory and the instructor quizzing and drilling you with oral questions from the right seat while you're doing Private PTS maneuvers at the same time. Brain overload, great "distractions".

You get a feel for what real distractions can do to the flying you thought you had "down cold" at that point in the training and learn to tell people in the right seat to wait, be quiet, or otherwise stop overloading you as you prioritize as an almost-ready-to-be-PIC.

Not too long after that the CFI will do a good review of your logbook, and start the process to schedule a DE... make sure you're prepped and have your paperwork in order, and before you know it, you'll be sitting in an airplane on the ramp with a stranger who's quietly watching your every move, and you'll be thinking, "Am I ready for this?! Really?!"

It's a great experience, start to finish. Savor it, because you can't really re-live it. It's similar for other ratings I hear, and checkrides are always a bit of a raise of the pulse and blood pressure...

But nothing is ever quite like that first Private checkride and the prep leading up to it. You can't really describe it until you've done it, and you can't really ever go back and do it again, either.

I *still* want to fix one of the crappy landings I made on my Private checkride, over a decade ago. I can still see that one landing going to crap in my mind's eye. I recovered "okay" enough to pass that day, and the other landings were dead on... but that one still is there, in the back of my head, along with the sweat and warm day, adrenaline and nervous knees when I got out of the plane, and walked to the DE's office upstairs of a hangar, and... all of it. I can still see the office and remember the patient quiet questions asked before the flight during the oral, and the little look that said, "Is there any more?" when I forgot something and had to think harder or say I knew exactly where to look it up.

And it wasn't THAT bad a landing either really, but it gives a feel for how that day is forever burnt into your mind.


Thanks for the help. I, too, am my own worst critic and I'm torn between doing the checkride really soon (I've flown a lot lately which usually helps) and waiting until everything is "perfect". But I'm getting ahead of myself here, I should wait until I meet all the requirements and after Saturday that will simply be 1 hour of foggles and 3 hours of checkride prep.
 
Thanks for the help. I, too, am my own worst critic and I'm torn between doing the checkride really soon (I've flown a lot lately which usually helps) and waiting until everything is "perfect".
If you wait until everything is perfect you will be a "perpetual student pilot". I came very close to falling into that trap. I had a really laid-back CFI who signed me off to go just about anywhere I wanted (day trips only of course), and I also had terminal test anxiety and that nagging desire for everything to be faultless. Add to that 95 hours before solo thanks to needing a SI, and I had nearly 250 logged before I finally went for the checkride.

It's nerve wracking but better to just git 'er done.
 
That's true but I wouldn't be inclined to talk through the maneuvers either unless it was for a CFI rating. Whatever works for you, though. I guess my philosophy is that it's better to say too little than too much, not that anyone would fail you for saying something wrong but it could prompt more questions and prolong the event.

The main exception to that I see would be when something isn't going right, then immediately verbalizing what went wrong, why and what you are doing to correct for it is a positive thing.
 
The main exception to that I see would be when something isn't going right, then immediately verbalizing what went wrong, why and what you are doing to correct for it is a positive thing.
That's true, although there are so many perfectionists here I can see people doing this for each maneuver because they suspect it isn't perfect. :)
 
I don't know how to put this "the right way" but I think landings are harder to judge - whether to "pass" or "fail" on - outside of the centerline / distance from a specified point / etc . . . there are many ways to land a plane in a way that meets or exceeds the PTS requirements on the checkride. It is for that reason I thought some practice area work might be better. Steep turns, for example, are pretty well defined in the PTS regarding what is and is not passable.

Oh and Doc - I was glad to read that you did some landings on your own without any help! You are getting close to your tail dragger solo now.


Kimberly

I've had some good friends that were DEs, and know and talk to even more. While there are a few DEs out there that are weirdos (few and far between), for the most part they want to pass you, and what they want is to feel that you're safe. If you're messing up on a maneuver recover to a stabilized situation as soon as you realize you're going to exceed the limits and explain what went wrong and ask "How about we try that one again?" This shows good decision making skills which at the PP level is more important than being able to do perfect maneuvers every time first time (obviously you only get a very limited amount of "mulligans" on a ride). As for landings again, "were they safe?" Did you understand the procedure even if the execution wasn't perfect.
 
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That's true, although there are so many perfectionists here I can see people doing this for each maneuver because they suspect it isn't perfect. :)


That's the other "just as bad" side of the same coin as not realizing the mistake.
 
I've had some good friends that were DEs, and know and talk to even more. While there are a few DEs out there that are weirdos (few and far between), for the most part they want to pass you, and what they want is to feel that you're safe. If you're messing up on a maneuver recover to a stabilized situation as soon as you realize you're going to exceed the limits and explain what went wrong and ask "How about we try that one again?" This shows good decision making skills which at the PP level is more important than being able to do perfect maneuvers every time first time (obviously you only get a very limited amount of "mulligans" on a ride). As for landings again, "were they safe?" Did you understand the procedure even if the execution wasn't perfect.


Thanks. This is what I have been hearing but as you can imagine for us lowly students the checkride is a "big deal" and so every time we hear the story of why someone failed their checkride we become concerned with our own performance.
 
That's true but I wouldn't be inclined to talk through the maneuvers either unless it was for a CFI rating. Whatever works for you, though. I guess my philosophy is that it's better to say too little than too much, not that anyone would fail you for saying something wrong but it could prompt more questions and prolong the event.

Can't be done in any event. From the Examiner's Responsibility portion of the PTS: "When a notice of disapproval is issued, the examiner shall record the applicant's unsatisfactory performance in terms of the AREA OF OPERATION and specific TASKS not meeting the standard appropriate to the practical test conducted." Hard to find anything in any PTS about verbalizing during the test or what an applicant should or should not say.

Others have carved out an exception for the CFI test, and my gut agrees with them....if the wannabe CFI can't communicate effectively, s/he should not pass the test.

Bob Gardner
 
Thanks. This is what I have been hearing but as you can imagine for us lowly students the checkride is a "big deal" and so every time we hear the story of why someone failed their checkride we become concerned with our own performance.


Yep, well, it is kind of a "big deal". That's another thing you get tested on "How do you react under pressure?" That is probably the most important thing to find out, and the most difficult to judge. Both in self and outside analysis, without being put into real jeopardy, it's tough for the DE who only has about an hour in which to make that evaluation. That's why most DEs try to make you as relaxed and comfortable as possible right from the start.

Remember that although the DE is technically a passenger, you will find that your check ride will be about as educational as 5 lessons combined. DEs are high time pilot/cfis and have a lot of knowledge. Typically during the oral they will ask multiple questions in the same vein, getting progressively more difficult/obscure until you miss one. If you get the first 3, you're good. DO NOT try to BS an answer to an obscure question when you're clueless, best to say, "Good question, I'd have to look that up, it should be in...<insert reference here>". One of the questions the DE has is, "do you know the reference materials and how to use them?". You aren't expected to know everything, you are however expected to know the answer.

On the flight exam, unless you have agreed to some other standard, if they haven't told you you failed, you haven't yet, so don't get flustered when something isn't perfect. There will come a point in the ride where the DE starts instructing, THIS IS A GOOD THING. It pretty much means they have decided to pass you, so relax and try to learn as much as you can from them.
 
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