How often do you get a hold while IFR?

Yeah and if a dispatcher argued about it I just used that Captain shet. :D
 
JustinD said:
I should have clarified that. Well legally of course you can dip into it if you NEEDED it. But the ref says you can't operate a civil aircraft on an IFR flight plan unless you have enough fuel to fly to your most distant alternate and 45 thereafter. The moment you can not do that anymore you are no longer in accordance with that reg and What most would consider min fuel min fuel . By us we operate it at basically untouchable unless needed for emergency/abnormal purposes. If we show dipping into that 45 min, we're looking for a place to divert for more gas. I also believe most pilots regardless of the operation however would view it the same way. By our operation we won't operate to show An FOD lower than than reserve fuel.
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I believe that's a just preflight planning number.
It's not any sort of requirement to actually land with reserve fuel.
 
We get hold fuel and "extra" fuel on our release. Usually there will be notes on the release on why there's extra fuel.
 
JustinD said:
I should have clarified that. Well legally of course you can dip into it if you NEEDED it. But the ref says you can't operate a civil aircraft on an IFR flight plan unless you have enough fuel to fly to your most distant alternate and 45 thereafter. The moment you can not do that anymore you are no longer in accordance with that reg and What most would consider min fuel min fuel . By us we operate it at basically untouchable unless needed for emergency/abnormal purposes. If we show dipping into that 45 min, we're looking for a place to divert for more gas. I also believe most pilots regardless of the operation however would view it the same way. By our operation we won't operate to show An FOD lower than than reserve fuel.
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Yes, setting aside any opinion by the Chief Counsel, who, btw, never had their weather-stressed lives suspended a mile above ground by an evaporating supply of gas vapor as they made their proclamations, it seems there can be no other reasonable interpretation. From the Pilot/Controller Glossary:

5−5−15. Minimum Fuel Advisory
a. Pilot.
1.Advise ATC of your minimum fuel status when your fuel supply has reached a state where,
upon reaching destination, you cannot accept any undue delay.
2. Be aware this is not an emergency situation, but merely an advisory that indicates an emergency situation is possible should any undue delay occur.
3. On initial contact the term “minimum fuel” should be used after stating call sign.
EXAMPLE− Salt Lake Approach, United 621, “minimum fuel.”
4. Be aware a minimum fuel advisory does not imply a need for traffic priority.
5. If the remaining usable fuel supply suggests the need for traffic priority to ensure a safe landing, you should declare an emergency due to low fuel and report fuel remaining in minutes.
REFERENCE − Pilot/Controller Glossary Term
−Fuel Remaining.
b. Controller.
1. When an aircraft declares a state of minimum fuel, relay this information to the facility to whom control jurisdiction is transferred.
2. Be alert for any occurrence which might delay the aircraft.​

Judging from the controller responsibilities, the declaration is basically a 'heads-up' that a delay may cause an emergency, so as to have a plan in their hip pockets, not an advisory for how much more delay can be tolerated.

dtuuri
 
lancie00 said:
I'm not instrument rated but the talk of hold entry got me to wondering how often you get assigned a hold during IFR? I know a lot of instrument training is dedicated to holds but didn't know how often they come up. Also, when you get a hold, do you slow down to save fuel? It seems like a hold is just to give the controller more time/separation anyway.
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twice in 700 hours flying an Arrow along the gulf coast and into New Mexico
 
I've been told to expect a hold at specific fix with instructions to be given - I just slow down to Skyhawk or Cherokee speeds and voila - by the time I get there I get cleared for whatever they needed to me to hold for -
 
Minimum fuel? Geeze. You're in a single or twin piston - you need gas land somewhere on the way and get some - ATC is not very understanding of single piston airplanes declaring min fuel.

I heard some smart aleck declare min fuel near NYC enroute to Boston thinking he'd avoid the vectors we were all getting - adding about 50 miles to the trip - NY controller said - 'Nxyz, greaat, min fuel received, where do you want to land? Republic is thirty miles to your east, VFR. Say intentions."

Don't pull that crap in a piston -
 
comanchepilot said:
Minimum fuel? Geeze. You're in a single or twin piston - you need gas land somewhere on the way and get some - ATC is not very understanding of single piston airplanes declaring min fuel
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I beg to differ. When I had min fuel declared by planes I gave them priority. Maybe not as an emergency fuel situation but damn close to it.
 
comanchepilot said:
Minimum fuel? Geeze. You're in a single or twin piston - you need gas land somewhere on the way and get some - ATC is not very understanding of single piston airplanes declaring min fuel.

I heard some smart aleck declare min fuel near NYC enroute to Boston thinking he'd avoid the vectors we were all getting - adding about 50 miles to the trip - NY controller said - 'Nxyz, greaat, min fuel received, where do you want to land? Republic is thirty miles to your east, VFR. Say intentions."

Don't pull that crap in a piston -
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This situation would be unusual. It's intimidating and not the norm. I would hope either you are putting the tone in a different light or not remembering exactly how it happened.
If it happened exactly as you describe, I hope the controller got his peepee spanked. Err... maybe that would be a compliment.
 
The controller who did something like that would be disciplined, IMO. Let alone what the NTSB would have to say about it.
 
lancie00 said:
I'm not instrument rated but the talk of hold entry got me to wondering how often you get assigned a hold during IFR? I know a lot of instrument training is dedicated to holds but didn't know how often they come up. Also, when you get a hold, do you slow down to save fuel? It seems like a hold is just to give the controller more time/separation anyway.
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Really depends on where you fly. The short answer is "not often," but I had one in my little airplane just the other day on a short flight from ILG (Wilmington, DE) to FWN (Sussex, NJ). Simple reason was capacity at NY TRACON. Got a "hold as published." Enjoyed it! Got to build a hold in my new GTN650 and fly it.

You're more likely to get them in the NE and other high-density traffic areas.
 
Does getting vectored around in circles at KSAN while they try to squeeze you in count?
 
On my first IFR flight after getting my instrument rating i got a hold. I was waiting on a King Air driver to cancel so i could fly my approach. Now i am a King Air driver and yes I occasionally receive a hold.
 
Never got a hold issued by ATC outside of practice/training. Only about 600 hours in the system flying IR in a Cirrus and Aerostar.
Based on comments from a few other pilots, holds seem more prevalent on the west coast then east, and never in the mid-west. But that is all rumor/hearsay.

Tim
 
Yes, unlike your VFR reserve, which is only required to be there at the time you depart, the IFR rules require you to maintain your reserves throughout the flight. You should not accept a clearance (initial or enroute) that puts you beyond the fuel (with reserve) you have on board.
 
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