How many of you fly at night regularly?

[Velocity173]

Until I hear a better idea, I am flying over roads. No way I am aiming for the darkest spot. I don't think a deadstick plane is going to do a lot of damage to a car on the road and landing speed is about the same as highway speeds.

Not sure what happens if you hit power lines. Do they give and snap or slice and dice?

Seen several airplanes that were snagged from power lines at night but were engine out at slow speed. At cruise speeds you better have some of these on your aircraft or it will be like a hot knife through butter. Even with cutters chances of survival are slim.

 

[mjburian]

Until I hear a better idea, I am flying over roads. No way I am aiming for the darkest spot. I don't think a deadstick plane is going to do a lot of damage to a car on the road and landing speed is about the same as highway speeds.

Not sure what happens if you hit power lines. Do they give and snap or slice and dice?

If you hit the power lines "right" (ie, with your landing gear) I'm guessing all that'd happen is you'd get flipped over (and if you're lucky, stuck in them... because otherwise you're falling upside down). Otherwise, I'm guessing it'd be similar to that cheese slicer wire. I know at least two people who were killed hitting power lines in an aircraft. I think I'll take my chances with the dark areas and fly it (as slowly as possible) all the way down to the crash site. (Assuming there's not an airport or well-lit, unused football field available.)

 

[LDJones]

If you hit the power lines "right" (ie, with your landing gear) I'm guessing all that'd happen is you'd get flipped over (and if you're lucky, stuck in them... because otherwise you're falling upside down). Otherwise, I'm guessing it'd be similar to that cheese slicer wire. I know at least two people who were killed hitting power lines in an aircraft. I think I'll take my chances with the dark areas and fly it (as slowly as possible) all the way down to the crash site. (Assuming there's not an airport or well-lit, unused football field available.)

I think they say the key is to turn on your landing light...unless you don't like what you see, then turn it off again!

 

[silver-eagle]

As noted above, full moon nights are best, airport to airport works, as does higher though around the Boston Bravo, 2,500 is about the best you can get unless you can go through it. Dr Bruce, a very smart man, even suggested you map out all the areas near your home drome you thought you might be able to put the plane down in the event of trouble. And on the way into a new airport, take note of possible areas you might use. A black hole in the ground could be a forest, field, or a lake. That's where the moonlight helps you. A good snow cover helps with ground vis as well though a field and a pond look a lot alike.
Even though I would prefer a night flight, about 10% of my total time is night. But the 10% includes three passes through the BOSTON Bravo in a helicopter at 1,000 feet. Great watching the stalled cars on the expressway at rushhour as we sped along at 70 knots.

 

[NoHeat]

Ballistic parachutes take a lot of the worry away, especially during cruise.

They don't help much during takeoff and landing, though.

The last time I flew into a GA airport at night, I was maneuvering at 1000 AGL, with a course reversal to set up for the recommended 45 degree downwind entry. I was trying to do it all the right way. Then I realized for a moment I was struggling with situational awareness as I was making all those turns, and I became suddenly aware that low and somewhat slow was a bad time to find that you are not level. I won't do that again at night at a small GA airport. There's rarely other traffic at night, and surely none without a radio -- I might as well enter the pattern any which way that minimizes turns, and to heck with making a lot of turns to do it the recommended way.

 

[dans2992]

If the mission schedule calls for a night flight in my single, I will make one. I don't avoid them. I will do it with the family too. Yes, there is a risk, but there is a risk flying during the day too. There is also a risk driving down the road, or getting out of bed.

If I could afford a twin turbine, sure, I might get one instead to mitigate the risk. Until I can afford one, I will be flying my single!

I remember one night departure out of KTEX. I don't think I've ever studied the departure procedure more carefully! I also had no less than 3 sources of electronic terrain displayed in front of me.

 

[silver-eagle]

In case anyone needs some night flight encouragement, see this:

 

[timwinters]

No, it is stupid. Mixing cows with planes is stupid. The hogs are just icing on the cake.

But I do my stupidity during the DAY. !

I do my stupid stuff 24/7! On the ground...in the air...it doesn't matter!

(Nice shots, John!)

 

[WhiskeyPapa]

410 hours and do not fly at night in spite of a high percentage of cross country time. Even with an instrument ticket, think I'll be reluctant, except maybe at the end of a long trip.

 

[CTLSi]

You can, no worries, the datalink is gonna be the most expensive part of your flying though.

You can, it's called a Garmin 796 or a Garmin 750

 

[Henning]

You can, it's called a Garmin 796 or a Garmin 750

How do you get Google Earth and a satellite view with those?

 

[CTLSi]

Ballistic parachutes take a lot of the worry away, especially during cruise.

They don't help much during takeoff and landing, though.

The last time I flew into a GA airport at night, I was maneuvering at 1000 AGL, with a course reversal to set up for the recommended 45 degree downwind entry. I was trying to do it all the right way. Then I realized for a moment I was struggling with situational awareness as I was making all those turns, and I became suddenly aware that low and somewhat slow was a bad time to find that you are not level. I won't do that again at night at a small GA airport. There's rarely other traffic at night, and surely none without a radio -- I might as well enter the pattern any which way that minimizes turns, and to heck with making a lot of turns to do it the recommended way.

BRS can be used fully 400 agl and above. Below that, they recommend pulling it anyway but cannot expect full deployment. Aborting a takeoff is the most dangerous part of flying, IMHO. That and stalling on base to final.

 

[CTLSi]

How do you get Google Earth and a satellite view with those?

What do you think Google is using? The Garmin provides synthetic view, as does Dynon...but your location, and the terrain depicted is the same or better than what you would get with Google earth. In fact, Google earth also 'generates' virtual depth. Garmin and Dynon color code it for you. More applicable to flying.

 

[dans2992]

What do you think Google is using? The Garmin provides synthetic view, as does Dynon...but your location, and the terrain depicted is the same or better than what you would get with Google earth. In fact, Google earth also 'generates' virtual depth. Garmin and Dynon color code it for you. More applicable to flying.

True, but with google earth you can tell the difference between a housing development and a soccer field. Not so with just terrain info.

 

[CTLSi]

True, but with google earth you can tell the difference between a housing development and a soccer field. Not so with just terrain info.

Do you need a virtual display inside the cockpit to know you are over a soccer field? Are you saying you wanna try to determine what you are flying over at night not lit up? Not sure what you are saying.

 

[denverpilot]

I prefer flying at night, but I don't kid myself that there's not an additional risk doing so.

The person who said they'd be reluctant to fly at night unless they had an IR, and then only at the end of a long trip? That's exactly the wrong time to be practicing rusty night skills.

You have to build in habits during ALL flights that will save your butt when you're tired on a night flight. How many people pick their cruise altitude by gliding distance to suitable visible landing locations, for example? Sure, it'll be different for day and night, but the thought process is the same question asked and planned for, for every flight.

 

[dans2992]

Do you need a virtual display inside the cockpit to know you are over a soccer field? Are you saying you wanna try to determine what you are flying over at night not lit up? Not sure what you are saying.

No, I think "Cowman" was making this point a few pages back.

Ok, I chose a bad example because those types of landing sites would be lit up. Maybe it would help in telling the difference between a cotton field and a field of huge boulders.

 

[James331]

BRS can be used fully 400 agl and above. Below that, they recommend pulling it anyway but cannot expect full deployment. Aborting a takeoff is the most dangerous part of flying, IMHO. That and stalling on base to final.

Pull at 400?! That's a little low even for a reserve on a sport parachute!
Heck base jumpers start out higher than that and they can flare.

Shy of a wing coming off I'd rather rely on my piloting skills that low.

 

[ScottK]

After reading this thread the other day, it got me thinking about getting some night flying in. I love to fly at night, but it just hasn't happened lately. We had a nice night for it last night (light winds, sctd 12k). I called a cfi buddy up and had him ride along. I hadn't been out of the pattern at night for awhile and wanted to do more than that. We went to a nearby airport so that I could do some landings and work on operating the lights. I've always had a hard time getting the rhythm down on the 3-5-7 count.

Finding the airport was easy. The lights were already on. My first appoach was strange. I couldn't get a feel for whether I was high/low or correct. My buddy told me it looked good, but I was a bit quick. I managed to make it work, but it felt odd the whole way to the ground. The next two improved when I got my approach speed back to where it belonged. There is something sweet about seeing that landing light illuminate the concrete as you near the ground.

While on the ground, I practiced turning the lights on and off. Figured it was better to try it then instead of circling the airport. I figured out that I was a bit to quick on the PTT. We actually had to hold it just a fraction of a second to get it to register each click. By the time we left, I had it working pretty well.

Coming home, we found the wind had picked up a bit and was coming from the ridge side of the airport. That is notorious for giving you a bumpy ride. And it lived up to the billing. That wasnt
much fun in the dark, but I pulled it off. I floated a bit to get the nose straight, but made a respectable landing after all.

I can't wait to get up there again. I scheduled a Friday night flight this week to go up and check out all the high school football game lights. It's cool seeing all the stadiums around you lit up. Hope the wife and daughter agree.

 

[Shawn]

I fly a fair amount at night.

At night time all my landings are greasers.

During daylight I am bouncing down the freaking runway!

 

[Jim Logajan]

Pull at 400?! That's a little low even for a reserve on a sport parachute!
Heck base jumpers start out higher than that and they can flare.

Shy of a wing coming off I'd rather rely on my piloting skills that low.

Keep in mind that the BRS is a rocket deployed parachute. So according to the manufacturer:

In the first 0.1 second, the rocket accelerates to 150 feet per second (over 100 mph). In less than one second, the rocket will extract the parachute and will stretch tight its lines and the airframe harness attachments. Very shortly afterward -- depending on the forward speed of the aircraft -- the canopy will become fully inflated and will decelerate the aircraft. The aircraft stabilizes under the canopy quite quickly.​

...

FAA certified tests have shown that full parachute inflation could occur as low as 260-290 feet above the ground.​

From their FAQ: http://www.brsaerospace.com/faq.aspx

 

[James331]

As low as, that's cool that say that, but 400AGL, realization and reaction times etc. I'm guessing you'd be better of just flying the friggin plane

 

[Henning]

What do you think Google is using? The Garmin provides synthetic view, as does Dynon...but your location, and the terrain depicted is the same or better than what you would get with Google earth. In fact, Google earth also 'generates' virtual depth. Garmin and Dynon color code it for you. More applicable to flying.

Have you looked at Google Earth? ever? It's photography based, not terrain database. Satellite imagery as well does not come through any of that. SVT, synthetic vision, is a completely different thing. You need an Internet datalink for the products he was requesting and that will cost a minimum of $70k to set up and a minimum $1000 a month service fee that will get 2 gigs.

 

[Henning]

Pull at 400?! That's a little low even for a reserve on a sport parachute!
Heck base jumpers start out higher than that and they can flare.

Shy of a wing coming off I'd rather rely on my piloting skills that low.

Different thing unless the wings broke off the plane. Most planes from 400' you've got over half a minute to the ground and you are traveling forward 9-15 times faster than you are traveling vertically so you'll use up most all of your deployment and deceleration phase in the horizontal plane and by the time you are in vertical descent, you will already be stable at your terminal velocity.

 

[CTLSi]

As low as, that's cool that say that, but 400AGL, realization and reaction times etc. I'm guessing you'd be better of just flying the friggin plane

Yes, it's a ballistic deployment, a rocket. If you are gonna pull it, the idea is you can make that decision effectively down to 400. You don't WAIT for that level, but you can go to that level and expect full deployment.

The Flight Design has an 'egg' cockpit, reinforced side beams, spine protecting seat design. If the wings come off, its the PERFECT reason to pull the chute.

 

[chemgeek]

I don't mind night flying, but treat it now like IFR, and take less risk by flying in at worst MVFR conditions and avoiding hazardous terrain. I don't take routings over the Catskills, for example. I like to have some sort of friendly lighted terrain in the event of a forced landing. A few extra miles is worth it for options.

Flying at night can be much more smooth and comfy than daylight flying. I enjoy it but am aware of extra risk.

Cheers.

 

[sandfarmer]

I would say I regularly fly at night, really like it. No trouble keeping my night currency I'll put it that way. Family likes the smoother ride when we are traveling.

 

[gismo]

I would say I regularly fly at night, really like it. No trouble keeping my night currency I'll put it that way. Family likes the smoother ride when we are traveling.

I used to think I kept night current (at least through the colder half of the year) just from the flights I made. But the actual requirement is logging 3 takeoffs and landings performed between 1 hour after sunset and 1 hour before sunrise. In my case I had no trouble getting in the 3 landings during that time period but I found that I rarely started a flight an hour or more after sunset.

 

[FloridaPilot]

You havn't flown over a city like Vegas, San Fran, or LA then. There is nothing to describe the night experience over a big city, near the ocean, or out over the black desert with the stars touching the plane.

That sounds amazing, Can't wait to do it!

 

[Kaniki]

I've heard that "aim for the dark patch" advice. While it's probably great in the Midwest -- where the dark patch is highly likely to be a corn, wheat, or soybean field -- it's got more limited utility here in the Pacific Northwest, where the dark patch will turn out to be either water, a tall-tree forest, or a mountain.

 

[azure]

I used to think I kept night current (at least through the colder half of the year) just from the flights I made. But the actual requirement is logging 3 takeoffs and landings performed between 1 hour after sunset and 1 hour before sunrise. In my case I had no trouble getting in the 3 landings during that time period but I found that I rarely started a flight an hour or more after sunset.

Yep, the need for 3 night takeoffs was drilled into me early on. I've been night current almost continuously since getting my PPL except for a 1.5 year hiatus from flying -- until now, largely because my plane is in a communal hangar and I don't have access to it after hours. Though I missed an opportunity the other night coming back from KASH, when I made my first ever night landing in VT, but I had to get up early the next day.

Aside: the RNAV 35 into KMPV is interesting at night since it looks at first as if you are going to pass the airport by, because the rotating beacon is way off to one side. It also starts off as a black hole approach until you get over the last ridge. All this also confirmed that I really don't want to be up at night in that country without instrument skills. There are many spots where there are no ground lights visible within 60 degrees or so either side of straight ahead, and on a cloudy night you might as well be over the desert.

(There are also not a lot of places up here to put down safely, even during the day. Kind of makes me think I don't want to do that too often anyway.)

 

[gismo]

Yep, the need for 3 night takeoffs was drilled into me early on. I've been night current almost continuously since getting my PPL except for a 1.5 year hiatus from flying -- until now, largely because my plane is in a communal hangar and I don't have access to it after hours. Though I missed an opportunity the other night coming back from KASH, when I made my first ever night landing in VT, but I had to get up early the next day.

Well if you got up early enough you could have gotten the night takeoff in too.

BTW have you ever seen a pilot logbook that had a column for night takeoffs or any other way to conveniently log them? I haven', nor have I seen night takeoffs logged in anyone else's logbook. How do you do yours?

Aside: the RNAV 35 into KMPV is interesting at night since it looks at first as if you are going to pass the airport by, because the rotating beacon is way off to one side. It also starts off as a black hole approach until you get over the last ridge. All this also confirmed that I really don't want to be up at night in that country without instrument skills. There are many spots where there are no ground lights visible within 60 degrees or so either side of straight ahead, and on a cloudy night you might as well be over the desert.

I'm surprised that PPL training for night flying doesn't include some basics regarding flying instrument procedures VFR. It wouldn't be that difficult to learn how to do that, especially for GPS approaches.

 

[danhagan]

I wasn't going to post....then decided to ...

I fly at night, a LOT. I have at least 5 emergency outs for engine failure near my home runway. From there, I have numerous roads without power lines memorized for every direction of flight leaving my area to also include engine out areas over the downtown area (railroad yard, river area, golf courses, etc.). Once departing my area in all directions the highways are pretty much power line free. Where they aren't, I've already made note of those areas.

I've had a night emergency before, and pre-planning all of these land out possibilities made things a lot easier. I had an alternator fail (physically came apart) causing the battery to overload within seconds after. Smoke in cockpit. The extra flashlights and hatlight were fine, but for anyone flying at night that gets smoke in the cockpit the Iphone flashlight worked the best at penetrating the "haze".

All of that said, I don't fly mountain areas that I'm not familiar with at night or as another poster indicated if you haven't done it in the day, don't try it at night.

EDIT: To those of you that think you're going to get 30-45 minutes of battery time after alternator failure, remember the above scenario.

 

[petrolero]

I have fair amount of night hours because I used to fly at night a lot. I don't fly at night very often in summer. More often in winter since the days are shorter and storms don't build up every afternoon. But I go out and do some night work once in a while.

 

[NoHeat]

This thread encouraged me to fly yesterday night. A full moon. Autumn, with comfortable temperatures and shorter nights. The conditions were perfect.

 

[narchee]

I liek flying at night. It is safer. Fewer planes and you can see them better. Also the air is cooler and less bumpy and more dense so you have more power and slower speeds if you need to make an emergency landing.

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

BTW have you ever seen a pilot logbook that had a column for night takeoffs or any other way to conveniently log them? I haven', nor have I seen night takeoffs logged in anyone else's logbook. How do you do yours?

I think logging landings implies takeoffs.
No need to log takeoffs

 

[narchee]

My electronic logbook Logten Pro lets me track takeoffs and landings separately.

You can take off during the day and land at night and this does not count towards night currency. Not that you will ever be caught though unless you fly from a towered airport then maybe if you get into a night crash then maybe they could figure out you didn't really have night currency if you took off during the day when you logged that you took off at night. I don't know if they check that stuff though. But just in case I log real night currency which is night takeoffs AND landings.

 

[gismo]

I fly a fair amount at night.

At night time all my landings are greasers.

During daylight I am bouncing down the freaking runway!

Perhaps that simply because no one's there to see you land at night.

 

[cyclepro]

Well if you got up early enough you could have gotten the night takeoff in too.

BTW have you ever seen a pilot logbook that had a column for night takeoffs or any other way to conveniently log them? I haven', nor have I seen night takeoffs logged in anyone else's logbook. How do you do yours?


I'm surprised that PPL training for night flying doesn't include some basics regarding flying instrument procedures VFR. It wouldn't be that difficult to learn how to do that, especially for GPS approaches.

My log book has a column for night landings. I assume they get that if you landed you had to take off.