How many dual X-Countries until "Proficient"

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Owad1971

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Owad1971
Good afternoon All- I am currently in the x-country phase of training and was curious to know how many trips did it take until your instructor felt you were proficient enough to get a solo x-country sign-off. I am curious and wanted to get a handle on budgeting for what appears to be an expensive portion of training. What should I look for in my own development?

Are there any obvious signs that will tell ME (and not my instructor) that I am definitely not ready? I fly once per week and when I am not eating, sleeping, or toileting I am doing something aviation retated- Ok that is a stretch, but I do spend at least 2-3 hrs each day during the week planing, studying, reading articles, watching training videos....etc. I am doing my best to manage the "get there-itis" but can't help feeling I am not doing enough:lol:

Thoughts Gang?
 
I did 2 dual before my first CC solo. Seems like a hard question to answer since we don't know what your skill level is or the area that you'll be flying in.
 
I did two as well, and I agree it is hard to judge as it is entirely up to your skill level and your CFI's confidence in you to sign you off.
 
How are your navigation skills? I did one, but my background was already that of a boat captain so chart reading, electronic navigation, DST ded reckoning by holding a compass course corrected for set and drift, and visual pilotage were all well known and practiced to me.
 
You won't be proficient until after solo XCs.
 
Do you have a GPS in the plane? If so flying a cross country is easier than pattern work, although all the planning while be time consuming.
 
I usually do 2 before I'll send them solo. In my personal training, I did 3. My CFI was going to send me after 2, but I didn't feel confident in my navigating abilities after 2.
 
When you can get from here to there and back without your instructor telling you what you need to do, just commenting on technique, you're ready. What tells you that you are not ready is that your instructor still has to intervene to keep you from getting lost or into trouble.
 
MadseasoN said:
I did 2 dual before my first CC solo. Seems like a hard question to answer since we don't know what your skill level is or the area that you'll be flying in.
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Oh, sorry about that- I have about 52hrs, am comfortable with maps (on land and under water navigation). I am flying around NY Long Island area- really easy to know north from south and the LGA/JFK class B. I am on skyvector soo much I thing they are going to start charging me. On my first CC we followed the NY CT coast to Groton, The second we flew from FRG to POU (overland route)... I feel comfortable with pilotage and DR...
 
Ron Levy said:
When you can get from here to there and back without your instructor telling you what you need to do, just commenting on technique, you're ready. What tells you that you are not ready is that your instructor still has to intervene to keep you from getting lost or into trouble.
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OMG..Please call my CFI and tell him "This Kid should be cut free..." LOL!
 
I should FINALLY do my first dual xc 2 hours from now but around Charlotte its just one field after another so I'm curious to see how I do.
 
I'm out of the same airport. I've done two so far one to POU and then a long one to GRO-OXC. I'm hoping next week I do my solo XC if weather cooperates. My instructor wanted to build up my solo time more because we jumped straight into XCs from my solo so I soloed to the south practice area today and will do north next lesson. I'm thinking he'll maybe want to go with me POU one more time before I go by myself.
 
Owad1971 said:
OMG..Please call my CFI and tell him "This Kid should be cut free..." LOL!
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Sure -- just as soon as I hop in your right seat and you take me "there and back" (say, FRG to HTO and back) without me having to do anything to protect my CFI ticket. :wink2:
 
A typical student takes somewhere between 2-4 XCs. It depends on not just showing your ability but also other factors such as weather or time between XCs can have an influence too. The thought process to the first solo and the first XC is similar. If you can show your instructor that he isn't needed you are probably ready. Don't tell him you don't need him though or he'll give you a reason. ;)
 
One 3-leg, 3.5 hr dual x-c and he let me go.

This was before GPS, before you could practice the flight on FSX or Google Earth, and you had to call and talk to briefer to get winds aloft to pick altitude, then finalize flight planning with plotter and whiz wheel. Legal size clipboard with charts, plotter, and wheel in my lap. 1 VOR.
 
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Dual - I did a quick cross-town flight to get a tower tour; didn't even think of it as a cross-country (65nm leg over familiar ground). Then, a longer three-leg xc to less familiar places (200nm total).
 
Ron Levy said:
Sure -- just as soon as I hop in your right seat and you take me "there and back" (say, FRG to HTO and back) without me having to do anything to protect my CFI ticket. :wink2:
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HAHHAHHAHA... is that all? Done!
 
I did a 3 leg day and then my night (also 3 legs...we knocked out ALL the night stuff in one flight) and my CFI let me go. I've done 3 on my own (all 3 legs) and will probably do another one before my checkride.
 
I did two, one day, one night then was cut loose. The plane has a GPS but I was instructed not to use it unless I got lost. First one more or less followed an interstate minimizing the chance of getting lost. My "long" x-c I didn't have that advantage.

Key was to both always know where I was AND to be able to figure out where I was if I lost track. If you can honestly handle those two things you should be fine
 
Ron Levy said:
Gutsy instructor. I want at least two, just so I know the Student wasn't just having one good day. But neither one will be that long.
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I had a similar experience, but the missing info was that I was routinely pointing out landmarks to my instructor -- some that she had to go look up on the sectional -- including places I hadn't flown before. I verbalize those to orient myself somewhat automatically. I don't like not knowing where I am (big picture as well as detailed), and I never have.

We did one dual cross country in daytime to Gustine. Then a second trip solo to Gustine (by a different route over the mountains), and then solo to Fresno. Then another dual at night to Sacramento.

She even let me fly solo cross-country with no GPS in the aircraft. I asked because the 172 that had the 430 was also slow as a dog. The one I did use had dual VORs and a DME that I discovered didn't work worth a **** while airborne. This was before I owned my tablet, but I don't trust that thing anyway.

I never realized that that was below a convention. It seemed natural to me.
 
Thank you all for sharing. What I don't want to hear is: "You need 6 more dual xCountrie$$$ before I am comfortable signing you off for solo." I seriously would need to work hard to screw up like that at this point in my view....
 
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Yes, just don't take off in the wrong direction and fly up a box canyon (or if you do, try to set it down on the mountain so you can walk away). That might indicate some further training needed.
 
Owad1971 said:
Good afternoon All- I am currently in the x-country phase of training and was curious to know how many trips did it take until your instructor felt you were proficient enough to get a solo x-country sign-off. I am curious and wanted to get a handle on budgeting for what appears to be an expensive portion of training. What should I look for in my own development?

Are there any obvious signs that will tell ME (and not my instructor) that I am definitely not ready? I fly once per week and when I am not eating, sleeping, or toileting I am doing something aviation retated- Ok that is a stretch, but I do spend at least 2-3 hrs each day during the week planing, studying, reading articles, watching training videos....etc. I am doing my best to manage the "get there-itis" but can't help feeling I am not doing enough:lol:

Thoughts Gang?
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iPhones will pull up POA and run many aviation related apps while you eat. an iPad is a better form factor for the toilet. That ought to be enough to dream about flaring.

IIRC there's usually a short cross country and a long one, during the long one my instructor put the hood on me. Then got me lost and had me find my way back on course. Then I went on a short XC then a long one.
 
There are several little airports within 25-30 miles that we hit during routine training that, while not technically x-c (for commercial purposes), still give point A to point B experience. Then we plan and fly the dual x-c, after which they fly the same route in reverse as their first one. Second one can be their own choosing.
 
Here's what I do

I'll fly the x-country with them, lots of "what's that town" "how tall are those towers" "what's the weather reported at that airport".

If they handle themselves well (which all but one did) I'd let them loose to fly that exact same x-country. I used to have a rule that they had to fly it the next day.

Most of my guys had no transponder for flight following, no VOR or GPS. I would give them my handheld with the x-country plotted into it, for emergincy use ONLY, they also had to call me from their destination airport and have cash and card on them.
 
I did 4. 2 and I had to cancel my solo 7 times because of wind or wx, a couple times it was just a little breezy for my CFIs liking so I took him along. Don't be in a hurry, just have fun.
 
My instructors rules for when I was ready to do anything solo- " when I can sit here as a passenger and you do everything right.". I'd imagine that was his guideline for solo xc's too.

Just a word of advice on xc's- navigating is only one( and a pretty easy part if you have an onboard GPS or iPad) part of a successful XC. You also need to be good on radio work and know how to contact ATC when requesting flight following or the like. I've been on 2 XC's myself recently and listened to ATC try and help a student pilot who was way in over their heads and the student pilot could not communicate his position accurately or comply with ATC instructions. I felt bad for both these pilots but it also makes everyone else on frequency pretty frustrated when I'm trying to communicate my own intentions. Make sure you know how to use the ATC system at least profieciently before an XC- they can really help you out.
 
Owad1971 said:
Good afternoon All- I am currently in the x-country phase of training and was curious to know how many trips did it take until your instructor felt you were proficient enough to get a solo x-country sign-off. I am curious and wanted to get a handle on budgeting for what appears to be an expensive portion of training. What should I look for in my own development?

Are there any obvious signs that will tell ME (and not my instructor) that I am definitely not ready? I fly once per week and when I am not eating, sleeping, or toileting I am doing something aviation retated- Ok that is a stretch, but I do spend at least 2-3 hrs each day during the week planing, studying, reading articles, watching training videos....etc. I am doing my best to manage the "get there-itis" but can't help feeling I am not doing enough:lol:

Thoughts Gang?
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Inability to maintain heading and identify your location on a chart without a GPS are pretty good clues you may not be ready.
 
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I did two. One short cross country(about 60 miles) and one longer one(about 100 miles).
 
Inability to maintain heading and identify your location on a chart without a GPS are pretty good clues you may not be ready.
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I did a lesson with 45 mins of hood work, then afterwards, my CFI told me to take my hood off and find my way home, no GPS/VOR allowed (simulating electric failure), afterwards I was ready for dual x-countrys
 
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Well, arrange with your CFI to load your and his significant other in the back seat and you fly an XC to someplace with a museum, etc. Do the tour do lunch. And then you fly the bunch back.
You get the dual hours for the log and you get to do an actual trip in real world conditions for your money. The significant others get a trip and lunch, etc. A win-win-win.
 
teejayevans said:
I did a lesson with 45 mins of hood work, then afterwards, my CFI told me to take my hood off and find my way home, no GPS/VOR allowed (simulating electric failure), afterwards I was ready for dual x-countrys
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That's a neat idea, I'll have to remember that for when I get my CFI ticket.
 
I had probably an extra 3-4 hours of duel before I got to solo but once I soloed it was minimum required time by the Fars as for xcountry, night flights and landings and round robin and inadvertent flight before I got my sign off for the check ride.

Unless you breezed through your solo and are not having to back track for skills overlooked, If you do more than the minimum basic xcountry duel and your instructor will not sign you off, it could be that either you are not cut out for aviation which I doubt is the case, more likely your instructor is milking you for more time and money. If you raise the standard high enough you can make sure every student has 100 hours of duel before sign off.

Has your instructor said you have having difficulties with a particular skill?

I'd consider asking to fly with another instructor if not another flight school.

Xcountry is no big deal it is not as if you are going on a 2000 nm trip the day after. You should be able to plan a round robin flight with at least one leg 55 nm or longer.



Owad1971 said:
Good afternoon All- I am currently in the x-country phase of training and was curious to know how many trips did it take until your instructor felt you were proficient enough to get a solo x-country sign-off. I am curious and wanted to get a handle on budgeting for what appears to be an expensive portion of training. What should I look for in my own development?

Are there any obvious signs that will tell ME (and not my instructor) that I am definitely not ready? I fly once per week and when I am not eating, sleeping, or toileting I am doing something aviation retated- Ok that is a stretch, but I do spend at least 2-3 hrs each day during the week planing, studying, reading articles, watching training videos....etc. I am doing my best to manage the "get there-itis" but can't help feeling I am not doing enough:lol:

Thoughts Gang?
Click to expand...
 
teejayevans said:
I did a lesson with 45 mins of hood work, then afterwards, my CFI told me to take my hood off and find my way home, no GPS/VOR allowed (simulating electric failure), afterwards I was ready for dual x-countrys
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your instructor sounds like a jerk off. it is not his job to expand on the FAR's as for requirements to solo xcountry.

Some of these small penis CFI's have big egos and take it upon themselves to **** on students.

You should have a talk to the local DPEs about hims and see what they think about him.
 
e.pie said:
That's a neat idea, I'll have to remember that for when I get my CFI ticket.
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Please do not become a jerk off type CFI. Just follow the regs.

It was local ehtos around here, after a long time CFI got the great idea of simulating an emergency power off landing near 81 Speedway-a race track. The student would automatically head for that race track as it looked like a good spot but the track had a hard to see cable holding the bleachers and phone poles straight and the CFI's around here would get their jollies off by having students aim right for that and then at the last moment the CFI would point out that hazard. And all these jerks woudl pat themselves on the back and tell the great war stories of how the made the students white knucked, white faced or crap their pants. Very mature attitude that I find about half the CFI's seem to have.

Then one day a cfi either waited too long or was distracted but the student flew through the cable cutting the airplane wings in half killing all on board.

So to all your jerk off CFI's that love to come up with neat little tricks to inflict on your students......just follow the regs and do not get too creative. It does not make you a better CFI and it determinately does not make you a better man.

The best instructors have nothing to prove with this immature silliness.
 
Tony_Scarpelli said:
your instructor sounds like a jerk off. it is not his job to expand on the FAR's as for requirements to solo xcountry.

Some of these small penis CFI's have big egos and take it upon themselves to **** on students.

You should have a talk to the local DPEs about hims and see what they think about him.
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Not really

It's your CFIs job to make sure you're safe. Some of that is making sure if things go sideways you won't kill yourself, others, a regulation, or bend the plane.

Until you prove to ME that you are safe I won't sign your logbook, don't like it go else where, I ain't going to have your dead azz on my concensious and sure as he11 ain't going to get 709ed just because some student wants to rush through things.
 
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