How long should it take to get a PPL?

[John Baker]

If you can only average about two days a week flying time, how long should it take to get a PPL? What do you guys think the average should be?

At what point should you just decide you don't have what it takes to accomplish the task?

How much money should you reasonably expect to spend to become a private pilot?

John

 

[Keane]

I did 2x a week for the last 30 hrs of mine. There was also 2 weeks of vacation in the middle, one mine, one the instructors.

Each time I went out, I did about 1.6-1.9 hrs. I took my practical exam with just more than 41 hrs, and it took me 3 months and a day.

Total cost for me? It was about 3200 for the plane, and another 1300 to the instructor or so. But this definitely depends on part 61/141, and fee to rent the aircraft.

 

[dmccormack]

41 hours is nice, but some take more. A recent student took his PP Practical after logging 150 hours. He passed.

Don't sweat it and don't psyche yourself out.

 

[SCCutler]

Twice a week is pretty good, especially if you're working full-time.

Like Erich did, I blocked two hours per session, worked out to 1.6 to 1.8, checkride at 42-ish hours and (exactly the same!) three months and one day.

More-frequent flying will keep the time down, and retention between lessons will be better. Caveat: if you're really weary, call it off - the instruction won't take, and your instructor will say, "Spike, if you're not up to it, you're wasting both our time."

Well, except for the "Spike" part.

 

[Anthony]

Schedule for three, so you can get in two due to your schedule and weather. 60 - 70 hour in five or six months should do it.

 

[CT Arrow]

Schedule for three, so you can get in two due to your schedule and weather. 60 - 70 hour in five or six months should do it.

Yup, what Anthony said! I'll add in the rough costs...

Plane and CFI, $130 Per hour +/_, Region specific
74 Hours National average (depends on who you talk to)

$9620+/- before Headset, Books, Ground school or home study course,,,

Your Mileage WILL vary......

 

[Areeda]

At what point should you just decide you don't have what it takes to accomplish the task?

I would say when you stop enjoying yourself or it costs more than you can afford.

I took close to 100 hr but in my defense I went through 5 instructors, some fired, some quit, none gave up on me (I think). The first one left after solo and I enjoyed my time in the air and did a lot of it.

In general aviation where you're paying your own way, it is much more about whether or not you can learn and not about how fast/cheaply you can do it.

So my position is that if you want to do it, do what it takes.

Joe

PS I make up for my slow uptake with an irrational sense of accomplishment when I "got it".

 

[vontresc]

I think It took me just shy of 60 hours. I did it in three summers during college flying one every week or so. This was also in the days of 20 hours of solo time.

 

[Everskyward]

If you can only average about two days a week flying time, how long should it take to get a PPL? What do you guys think the average should be?

I think there are way too many variables to worry about an average. It's also not productive to compare yourself to other people. I think I tried for about 2 lessons a week but sometimes they were much further apart and I got my private at about 70 hours and 10 months. This was years ago, however.

At what point should you just decide you don't have what it takes to accomplish the task?

When you start to hate going to lessons and it's never fun any more. I don't know your situation but you are sounding discouraged. That's only normal at certain points, however you shouldn't feel that way all the time. Maybe you need a change of instructor or FBO.

 

[nddons]

When you start to hate going to lessons and it's never fun any more. I don't know your situation but you are sounding discouraged. That's only normal at certain points, however you shouldn't feel that way all the time. Maybe you need a change of instructor or FBO.

If that's the case, John (and I don't assume that it is), I would take a "for fun only" flight, either alone (if authorized by your CFI) or with an instructor. Go to an interesting place, see the sights, and just enjoy the experience of flying above terra firma.

I went through three instructors (one left for a corporate flying job, one left instructing all together, and my last one instructed because he loved it) for my PPL, and took me 22 months (work obligations, etc. etc.) I had 83 hours going into my checkride, but I don't regret one extra hour.

 

[Ghery]

IIRC, I had 60 hours in the log when I got home from my check ride. National average, or so I've heard, is 70 hours before the ride. Everyone is different. My first lesson was in July 2000 and the check ride was in April 2001. Flying twice a week in the rainy PNW just isn't a reality in the fall and winter.

Keep at it. You'll get there. You don't want to know how long I've been working on my IR, and the things that have gotten in the way. But, I'll get there.

 

[damonb]

I was mostly only able to go up on the weekends. It took me a year and about $7000. I logged about 70 hours when I passed my checkride. The biggest killer for me was the weather. Probably a third of my lessons were cancelled due to the weather or the occasional airplane problem. Never pass up a chance to go fly. You do not know how long it may be before you get to go up again.

 

[sba55]

Another aspect that makes these comparisons hard is that different instructors have different standards.

My instructor was a former AF pilot. He had very high standards. Unfortunately, my DE was also ex-military, and he asked questions that I know now were very, very hard. It took me somewhere in the 40s, but I was also flying 3x/week.

It can actually be good if it takes longer because you might also learn more. I know people who finished their PP training without ever having talked to Approach Control.

-Felix

 

[Everskyward]

Another aspect that makes these comparisons hard is that different instructors have different standards.

I agree. And students have different attitudes too. Some pilots and instructors are very goal oriented and want to get 'er done as quick as possible. Others would rather take a longer time and study things in depth. It can be frustrating when a goal-oriented CFI is paired with a student who wants to smell the roses or vice versa.

 

[thepetrostate]

I took 40 hours+ but before I stepped into my first CFI assisted flight, I had spent literally 100s of hours studying. Basic and advanced weather, flight, instrumentation, the entire Jeppersen course, etc etc etc I passed ten PPL tests online before I took the one that got me my certificate.

This worked for me, others claimed it jangled their heads, YMM will V

 

[poadeleted20]

If you can only average about two days a week flying time, how long should it take to get a PPL?

As long as it takes to reach the necessary level of proficiency in the required tasks.

What do you guys think the average should be?

I have no idea, and wouldn't care to guess.

At what point should you just decide you don't have what it takes to accomplish the task?

When your instructor and at least one other CFI tell you that.

How much money should you reasonably expect to spend to become a private pilot?

Too many variables to speculate.

You'll notice that my answers are not very specific. That's because every trainee is different in learning style and rate as well as general aptitude, and there are a wide range of variables including the airport (tower, traffic level, mix of traffic, etc), the airplane (C-150 or SR22 or 58 Baron?), environmental factors (mostly climatological), and external factors (family, job, etc).

That said, the fact that you're asking suggests you think you're not progressing properly. Well, that may or may not be true. Many folks have unrealistic expectations. Not all instructors are effective with all trainees. All the factors listed above may or may not be working for or against you.

So, without actually flying with you, I couldn't even begin to give you a good answer on whether you're wasting your time/money or just in need of a bit of morale-boosting. But I will say that I've seen more folks discouraged due to unrealistic expectations (usually because of the tales of others who may have had totally different training situations) than the number who just aren't cut out to fly.

 

[brcase]

If you can only average about two days a week flying time, how long should it take to get a PPL? What do you guys think the average should be?



How much money should you reasonably expect to spend to become a private pilot?

John

Since I am a part time instructor, I tend teach part time students. Most only fly once or twice a week and most finish their PPL somewhere between 6 months and a year. The majority of the pilots I send for PPL checkrides have about 65 hrs total time.

"At what point should you just decide you don't have what it takes to accomplish the task?"

This really depends more on you than anything. How bad do you want to fly? I think there are extremely few people that just don't have what it takes. But there are a fair number that will have to work harder for it than others and as you get older it will typically become harder. If you get to the 30 hr mark and still havent' soloed you may want to take a hard look at how bad you want to do this. Discuss it with your instructor. But if it takes you 30 hrs to solo you may be looking at 100 to 150 hrs or so get your PPL. There are no hard fast rules though and it may be that once you solo you will proceed quickly throught the rest of the training.

If you are concerned about "not having what it takes" then take a few lessons and the concentrate on getting the written/knowledge test completed before spending a lot of money on flying lessons. I don't recall ever having a student complete the knowledge test and not complete their training due to difficulty in flying the airplane. I think if you can complete the knowledge test then there is a 99% chance you are capable of completing the PPL.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL

 

[Bob Noel]

If you can only average about two days a week flying time, how long should it take to get a PPL? What do you guys think the average should be?

At what point should you just decide you don't have what it takes to accomplish the task?

How much money should you reasonably expect to spend to become a private pilot?

John

Some thoughts that had been previously posted to rec.aviation.students
include:

1) It's not a race. The guy who took 150 hours and the guy who took
only 41 hours have the same privileges.

2) The more often you fly the better. Long breaks are not helpful
when just starting out.

3) Shorter intense lessons are helpful, particularly with reducing
the bill.

 

[Ddayle]

72 hours & 11 months. I did it as i could afford it.

 

[Ted]

I did mine in 6 months (including about 6 weeks with no flying time at all in the middle) and 42 hours. I had a subsidized flying club which made it a lot cheaper. I probably did the whole thing for under $4,000, including supplies.

I had a student who had... I think 130 hours over about 5 years. Not because he didn't get it (he was a great student), he had a number of interruptions with work, different instructors, etc. I have no idea how much it cost him, but I'd venture a guess in the $15,000-$20,000 range.

You'll probably be somewhere in between.

Give up when you have multiple instructors saying that you probably can't do it. Otherwise, don't. Said student was close to giving up, but had no reason to. He had the ability, things just hadn't gone his way, which happens sometimes in this life.

 

[Kaye]

I had 100+ and 10 months. My first CFI (who's now back with me when I need him) left after 10 hrs. Took 3 tries to get a part time instructor. There was no structure to my training. And as soon as the CFI signed me off for solo beyond the traffic pattern, I was out 2 or 3 times a week just flying around in the beloved c152. I loved it!

I finally asked when I should take my checkride. CFI asked if all my requirements were complete and how many hours I had. When I told him I had over 100 hrs, he was stunned and embarrassed. We immediately wrapped up the remaining requirements, and off to the checkride I went.

Needless to say, when I started the instrument rating, I took charge of my lesson plans. I was interrupted by 9/11, but as soon as I could start flying again, my original CFI was back and we wrapped it up quickly.

 

[AuntPeggy]

There are so many variables that your questions don't cover.

How old are you? Your ability to learn the rules and the math/physics changes over the years. Your ability to train your muscles and hand/eye coordination changes over the years.

What are you flying? Staying with the same airplane and learning its quirks goes faster than flying in a fleet or changing from one type to another.

How is your emotional life? If you just got married, divorced, new job, lost job, new baby, friend or family member ill or died, new home, etc., learning can take longer.

Discouragement is part of the pattern. You start out uneasy and discover you can actually fly. You get excited and start to learn some of the hard parts, like landings and take offs that don't scare you -- usually. Then you solo and realize you are a responsible, trustworthy pilot -- maybe. Flying by yourself and learning the fine points of turns and stalls can make you almost giddy with accomplishment or despair when you just don't quite make it perfectly. Then comes the cross-country dual and cross-country solo, which is what this flying is really all about. Then comes the hardest part of training--honing all your skills to PTS standards. You become a harsh critic and missing your altitude or heading by a small amount on any maneuver undermines your dearly-won self-confidence. Finally, you make it and you know it is a major accomplishment.

You will plateau at each of these steps. You will get discouraged. Only you can tell whether you will persist until past the roadblocks.

Since I cannot answer the question about averages, let me add my experience. The day I passed my Private Pilot checkride, I also logged my 300th hour of flight time. However, there were many hours where I was so discouraged that I didn't even log my training flights. I averaged around 3 hours a week for 2 years. I had 13 instructors. Some quit to go to other jobs, some I fired, at least one gave up on me, some were at a chain school, some were at a small FBO school, some were independent. Some were great teachers, some were terrible. I flew three kinds of aircraft, a C-152, a Piper PA-28, and a C-172. Eventually, I found an instructor who meshed with my learning style and together we made it. There is no way you can coerce me into counting up the thousands of dollars it cost. It doesn't matter. I won the prize.

 

[John Baker]

Aunt Peggy, You last paragraph describes most of my experience, except I am now over five years. I completed all the tasks, and have met all the requirements. I have not totaled my hours since my last check ride sign off. I keep running into bureaucratic issues that never seem to end. The last one was a missing equipment list. The examiner refused to give me the test.

I will be 67 in one month. I started flying a few months before I turned 62. My hours are near 300. After spending two years at a flight school that considered me more of a cash cow than a student, I found it less expensive to purchase my own airplane.

At the school I lost count of the instructors, I flew with every one of them. I think they had a policy that each new instructor must first give me three or four lessons.

I hired my own instructor then ran into one huge bureaucratic issue that took over a year to resolve. Then medical issues, such as having only one eye and less than perfect lungs. I had to have a cataract operation on my one eye to meet the vision requirements. It is now 20-15 corrected. Very scary operation when you only have the one eye.

I have been signed off for my check ride, but can not seem to get quite good enough for my instructor to make the appointment. After I started this thread yesterday I had a conference with my instructor and told him I am done with it all. I have serious problems with my business and trying to juggle everything is getting to be way too much. My last flight with him was not up to standards in a couple of areas, yet the previous flights were at or above standards.

We agreed that he would set up the check ride for approximately two weeks from now with an examiner here in San Diego. The last time it was going to be in Hemmett.

I told him I do not care if I pass the check ride or not, I just want to get it over with, one way or another. If I pass, I do not know if I will keep flying, it all depends on if I can get my business out of the red. Custom picture frames do not seem to be anywhere near the top of peoples shopping lists these days.

This whole flying experience has been one frustrating event after another. I have passed the one hundred thousand dollar mark and am still spending.

I have no problem navigating, flying, all the various landings and take offs, I have even had the tower congratulate me on how I handled a seldom used runway and landing a few weeks ago, they inquired if I had used it before.

It seems like one day I know it all, then another day I am a raw beginner making idiotic mistakes. The one thing I have always done was get it where I wanted to go and get it back. My airplane has always been usable after a landing.

Yes, I am frustrated, and the fun just is not there much anymore.

John

 

[steingar]

It takes as long as it takes. If it isn't fun anymore don't do it. You never stop learning. Egad, I hit something I didn't know the other day.

 

[Ted]

It seems like one day I know it all, then another day I am a raw beginner making idiotic mistakes.

We all have days like that. If you've always brought the plane back in one piece, then you're doing something right.

It sounds to me like you're discouraged, and rightfully so given all the problems you've gone through in your training. I would've given up long ago in your situation, but I started out pretty unmotivated to do this flying thing in the first place. Now I can't imagine being without it.

Give the checkride your best shot. Go in there with everything right. You should pass just fine. Whether or not you use it after you pass, you'll have it done.

 

[Everskyward]

What kind of enjoyment do you get out of flying?. Or is it just that you feel that you've already sunk X amount of money and time into it so you need to finish. Remember, for you, it's a hobby not a job. What are the things that made you want to learn in the first place?

 

[jasc15]

I started back in March of this year, and have about 75 hours now. My first solo was in early June, and throughout the summer i was racking up hours like crazy, flying 3 times a week. However, once i started my XC work things really slowed down. I work a 9-5 job, and since nav logs can't be done days in advance (or at least the most time consuming parts can't), I can only plan XC's on the weekends. I only flew once for the entire month of October, but I am finally doing my first solo XC this saturday. I thought i would have my PPL for months now, but unfortunately it hasnt happened. Im not really sure where I am compared to where i "should" be, which I suppose can be a good thing, but it is certainly costing much more than I anticipated; about 2x what i originally budgeted.

 

[AuntPeggy]

I will be 67 in one month. I started flying a few months before I turned 62. My hours are near 300.
...
Then medical issues, such as having only one eye and less than perfect lungs. I had to have a cataract operation on my one eye to meet the vision requirements. It is now 20-15 corrected. Very scary operation when you only have the one eye.
...
I have serious problems with my business and trying to juggle everything is getting to be way too much.
...
I have passed the one hundred thousand dollar mark and am still spending.
...
Yes, I am frustrated, and the fun just is not there much anymore.

John

John -

You know you were setting yourself up for failure with the original question, "How long should it take..." You are obviously way above average already.

And, you carry a lot of baggage along with you whenever you fly, your age, your anger at being exploited, your medical issues, your business concerns. I'd be surprised if you don't, like me, carry a few extra pounds into the cockpit, too.

So, like Ted said, give it your best shot. You'll do good. You already know you can do well. Get some rest the night before and eat well enough to have your blood sugar up.

I have a kid and couple of grandchildren in Oceanside. We plan on visiting for Christmas next year. Let's go flying together then. If you get to New York, come visit.

PS. You are my senior by a few months. Us War Babies gotta stick together.

 

[brcase]

<snip>

Needless to say, when I started the instrument rating, I took charge of my lesson plans. I was interrupted by 9/11, but as soon as I could start flying again, my original CFI was back and we wrapped it up quickly.

There is a very good point in the post above. Pilots need to be take charge kind of people. This is what we mean when we say you are the Pilot in Command. Some people do this naturally most have to learn it to one degree or another. You need to take charge and insure that you understand the requirements and are progressing through them. If you are not willing to do this your instructor may decide you just don't really want to learn to fly, or have changed your mind.

I find the best way to keep your training progressing is to insure that you always have a dual lesson scheduled. Never leave a lesson saying "I will call you.", Instead leave saying the lesson well be on Tuesday at 4:00. If you have to reschedule then reschedule for a specific time. This is true even if you have to take a month off for some reason, you still should have the appointment with your instructor scheduled.

Additionally if the lessons seem to be dragging on, just ask the instructor what the goal of the lesson is and what you need to be doing to progress on to the next requirement, there will be certian tasks that will takes some time and repetivitive lessons to get down, but you should at least know what you need to do to get past these tasks.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL

 

[poadeleted20]

It seems odd to me that one can get signed off for the practical test without one's instructor being prepared to let you take the test. At the same time, if there are significant non-flying distractions keeping you from devoting sufficient attention to the task, it might be best to hold off until those distractions are dealt with.

 

[jesse]

Just move forward. You're close -- giving up now would be rather silly.

 

[John Baker]

Aunt Peggy, I've flown into Oceanside airport a few times. There is a great Mexican restaurant one long block away, about a five minute walk. When you get there, give me a call 619-223-5313. If the flying Gods are smiling on me, I fly over and meet you.

Oceanside gets socked in by the marine layer a whole lot more than most strips around here.

My grandkids live in Colorado Springs, another reason I wanted to fly.

Brian, you are right on the money. I should have held that school to their syllabus on a page by page basis. I did not know one thing about flying, so I just assumed they knew what they were doing and had my best interests in mind. Not so.

John

 

[dmccormack]

There's plenty of blame to go around, but it's not only -- or merely -- "those $#$# CFI's fault."

I had a student with hundreds of 0.5, 0.7s in his logbook. He attended a local Community College aviation program (he was shocked to learn you did not have to attend such a school in order to fly, but he was there due to disability terms -- I didn't ask and he didn't offer more info than that).

He bought his own airplane, had the PP and was wanting to "finish up" the Comm and then the IR.

I told him I'd be happy to sign him off after he demonstrated commercial pilot skills at the level required by the PTS.

So we flew -- twice. He could barely hold altitude, was afriad of steep turns, stalls, yada, yada.

I think he was disappointed I wouldn't "just sign off."

I think he had sunk so much money that by the time he called me he was just shopping around for a signature.

So while I will carefully hear out any pilot's tale of woe, there's always two sides to every story.

 

[Trapper John]

Brian, you are right on the money. I should have held that school to their syllabus on a page by page basis. I did not know one thing about flying, so I just assumed they knew what they were doing and had my best interests in mind. Not so.

Maybe the sooner you can put that behind you, the more you will enjoy your flying.


Trapper John

 

[dmccormack]

Brian, you are right on the money. I should have held that school to their syllabus on a page by page basis. I did not know one thing about flying, so I just assumed they knew what they were doing and had my best interests in mind. Not so.

John

John -- I attended a Part 141 school that offered Part 61 for those of us not interested in the 141 paperwork.

Before every flight *I* checked the syllabus, practiced on MSFS, and showed up with the syllabus in hand ready to go out to the airplane.

Every hour dual was costing me $$, and I wanted the best value per dollar.

I think it made a significant difference in time and cost.

YMMV.

 

[John Baker]

There's plenty of blame to go around, but it's not only -- or merely -- "those $#$# CFI's fault."

I had a student with hundreds of 0.5, 0.7s in his logbook. He attended a local Community College aviation program (he was shocked to learn you did not have to attend such a school in order to fly, but he was there due to disability terms -- I didn't ask and he didn't offer more info than that).

He bought his own airplane, had the PP and was wanting to "finish up" the Comm and then the IR.

I told him I'd be happy to sign him off after he demonstrated commercial pilot skills at the level required by the PTS.

So we flew -- twice. He could barely hold altitude, was afriad of steep turns, stalls, yada, yada.

I think he was disappointed I wouldn't "just sign off."

I think he had sunk so much money that by the time he called me he was just shopping around for a signature.

So while I will carefully hear out any pilot's tale of woe, there's always two sides to every story.

I have to agree with you on that one, I can not pretend that I am the best of all students. I am a slow learner, have always been that way. Once I learn it, I usually am very competent at whatever it was I was trying to grasp.

I was a forward observer in the military, I almost killed our company commander while I was learning those skills, afterward he always called on me when the fire was close in, I was that good at it.

As far as the fear factor in flying, it is not, nada. I had one instructor say after a particularly harrowing up/down draft situation, that I was to stupid to be afraid. He was upset that I was laughing while he had turned somewhat very white. My current instructor has had to remind me that a steep bank turn is not a 60 degree bank a few times.

I was a paratrooper and one of Westmorland's Recondos back in the day. After you have sailed through more than a few storms, the boat healing on a windy day is a non-event.

Fear has not been a problem, getting it through my extra thick skull has been. I have read every book, watched the DVDs, practiced, I got 92% on my written. I know I am not stupid, but this has really gotten exasperating, I want it to be finished.

John

 

[poadeleted20]

If you're in San Diego and have your own plane, try hunting down Fred Kokaska and see if you can talk him into taking you on for finish-up training.

 

[dmccormack]

Fear has not been a problem, getting it through my extra thick skull has been. I have read every book, watched the DVDs, practiced, I got 92% on my written. I know I am not stupid, but this has really gotten exasperating, I want it to be finished.

John

If you're smart enough to be airborne FIST, you're smart enough to fly.

(Yeah, I did FIST for a while).

;-)

 

[thepetrostate]

If you are concerned about "not having what it takes" then take a few lessons and the concentrate on getting the written/knowledge test completed before spending a lot of money on flying lessons. I don't recall ever having a student complete the knowledge test and not complete their training due to difficulty in flying the airplane. I think if you can complete the knowledge test then there is a 99% chance you are capable of completing the PPL.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL

This was exactly my take and why I took a strong, academic first approach to flying.

 

[John Baker]

If you're smart enough to be airborne FIST, you're smart enough to fly.

(Yeah, I did FIST for a while).

;-)

I served with the 101st 1959 to through 1963, that was before an acronym called FIST was around. What is FIST?

In those days, the elite troops were either Ranger qualified or Recondo. Special Forces were just getting off the ground down at Benning or Brag, I can't remember which.

John