How long does it usually take for a civil service employee to get promoted?

N918KT

N918KT

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Just wondering but how long does it take to move up the ranks and get promoted in a civil service job?

I recently learned a coworker of mine who is an airport operations duty officer has been working at the airport for close to 10 years and he isn't even technically a supervisor yet, although he does have some supervisor-like responsibility like leading the more junior airport operations employees.

I'm just curious to know but is this typical for a civil service job, especially with a city government?
 
There's likely no answer. For federal civil service, which I am intimately familiar with, there is no "timeline" for promotion, generally*. You work your job, and if a promotion opportunity comes up, you apply for it along with everybody else. Then you get interviewed (possibly, or don't), and then you get selected (or don't). There's no "work here and you get promoted every 5 years" or anything like that.

*There are some career fields, however, where you can get hired in at a lower grade with a "target" higher grade that as long as you learn the skill and do well, you will be regularly promoted, without competition, to the next higher level, up to a certain point. These don't typically, in my experience, include supervisory positions, but maybe some places they do.

If your coworker wants to get ahead and it isn't happening in his current job, he needs to be willing change jobs, relocate, etc.

Raises, however, in many federal systems are regular and routine and are based on longevity. But that's not a promotion.
 
N918KT said:
Just wondering but how long does it take to move up the ranks and get promoted in a civil service job?

I recently learned a coworker of mine who is an airport operations duty officer has been working at the airport for close to 10 years and he isn't even technically a supervisor yet, although he does have some supervisor-like responsibility like leading the more junior airport operations employees.

I'm just curious to know but is this typical for a civil service job, especially with a city government?
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Depends entirely on the job. Some have very little promotion potential while others are more open.

Then there is also the 'F up; promote up' phenomenon that is unfortunately very real. The inside joke on how to get rid of a GS employee who is past their probation, but a real problem is to convince them to apply for a higher job in another agency.
 
Zeldman said:
When someone dies, everyone under that person moves up one position.
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Nope I worked Civil service 12 years went in a WG 13.step1 came out as a WG 13.step 5. to move up to a higher position you must have an opening, and apply for it then pass the selection process. steps with in your pay grade are timed salary increases
 
Two syndromes in play here. The first is "too valuable where he is". He wont get promoted because his boss can't live without his support. (BTDT)

Second is: He can't do the job properly so let's move him and make him think it's a promotion even though it's simply a lateral move to put him where he can't do any more damage.
 
Just curious - I've heard about the promoting of guys that suck just to get them out of the way, but what is it about a GS job that makes it so difficult to fire (or demote) them?
 
kayoh190 said:
Just curious - I've heard about the promoting of guys that suck just to get them out of the way, but what is it about a GS job that makes it so difficult to fire (or demote) them?
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In my experience, I've never met poor performers who were promoted. Typically they are encouraged to seek opportunities that better fit with their skills and abilities. Usually that's a lateral move to another area. Some low performers blossom in a new environment; others continue to suck.

Federal Service is not too different from private business in this respect; most managers would rather have an employee quit than be fired. In federal government service, it's easier for a manager to support having the employee transfer to another department/division/etc. than having to go through the effort of putting the employee on a performance plan, documenting unacceptable performance, etc. For all intents and purposes, different federal agencies might as well be different companies.

If a manager really wants someone fired from federal service, they generally go after something a black and white technical violation like misreporting their work time.
 
N918KT said:
Just wondering but how long does it take to move up the ranks and get promoted in a civil service job?

I recently learned a coworker of mine who is an airport operations duty officer has been working at the airport for close to 10 years and he isn't even technically a supervisor yet, although he does have some supervisor-like responsibility like leading the more junior airport operations employees.

I'm just curious to know but is this typical for a civil service job, especially with a city government?
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You'll find in airport operations and management that there is limited room for advancement, and when there is, it is very competitive. In order to work your way up, you need to be willing to move around from airport to airport. If you're unwilling to move around, you have to wait for something to open up. Sometimes that takes a lot of time, and in the meantime that effects your moral, which is observed by your superiors as an inability to do the job at the higher level. If you want to work your way up the ladder in Airports, be ready to pick up and move when the opportunity arises.
 
I think you missed the point, is your friend happy at what he is doing? I served 30 years as an officer in the Marines and like I told my son-the key part of "officer" is "office" and as an officer you spend most of your time in the office on personnel matters. When I got a job in the Government-as a rocket scientist-I made a deal that I would not be a supervisor and could concentrate on design and engineering. All of my co-workers make more than me and I'm happy with that because I enjoy my job.
 
To the OP - so are you saying that his pay rate has also been the same for 10 years or have there been some raises ?
 
Zeldman said:
When someone dies, everyone under that person moves up one position.
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Exactly. Never go to a 'meeting in the basement' with subordinates...unless you can take them. :eek:

Nauga,
and his advancement opportunity
 
RussR said:
*There are some career fields, however, where you can get hired in at a lower grade with a "target" higher grade that as long as you learn the skill and do well, you will be regularly promoted, without competition, to the next higher level, up to a certain point. These don't typically, in my experience, include supervisory positions, but maybe some places they do. [...] Raises, however, in many federal systems are regular and routine and are based on longevity. But that's not a promotion.
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This (seriously this time). You may hire in at a lower rate but your position may have a 'full performance level' listed. As long as you meet the standards you'll advance at some regular rate up to FPL, then cap, at which point advancement is competitive. There are (or were, at any rate) cost-of-living raises and within-grade increases that aren't a promotion but recognition of performance, time in service, and economic reality. It's not all that different from my observations of private industry in the same line of work.

In 15 GS years I never saw someone promoted to 'get rid of them,' however, I am aware of people who were downgraded, transferred, or outright terminated for cause.

Nauga,
former sandcrab
 
I ask the OP this question in response to his question.

How long does it take a private enterprise employee to get promoted?
 
At the entry level right out of college an employ will know. BS degrees starts at one level, say GS7, MS starts at, say, GS9, and at one year intervals, promoted without competion and in the same job to Journeyman level provided there is no significant derogatory in his record. After that promotions fall to all the possible wrinkles described by others in this thread.
 
kayoh190 said:
Just curious - I've heard about the promoting of guys that suck just to get them out of the way, but what is it about a GS job that makes it so difficult to fire (or demote) them?
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My personal experience was as an active duty guy working in mixed (AD/GS/Contractor) commands. While I never had to deal with civil service admin, the folks I worked with/for basically explained that the process and burden of proof required to show in order to fire a GS employee was such that it was easier for everyone to encourage them to leave. That assumes the person is out of their probationary hire. For most GS jobs, you can be let go for just about anything within the first year. After that, it is like tenure.

Most of my exposure to Govt civilians was with DoD acquisitions and there were several problem children (unfortunately most of them female diversity cases) where the problem individual kept getting moved around and up. I say unfortunately because there are a lot of women and minorities that are extremely capable, but affirmative action puts some real incompetent people into important positions.
 
Brad Z said:
You'll find in airport operations and management that there is limited room for advancement, and when there is, it is very competitive. In order to work your way up, you need to be willing to move around from airport to airport. If you're unwilling to move around, you have to wait for something to open up. Sometimes that takes a lot of time, and in the meantime that effects your moral, which is observed by your superiors as an inability to do the job at the higher level. If you want to work your way up the ladder in Airports, be ready to pick up and move when the opportunity arises.
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This is true. Promotion in the airport ops/management world tends to mean moving on to a larger airport.
 
Thanks for the replies everyone. @cgrab I know my coworker loves his job. He is not going anywhere at all. I am just saying that for me that he has been working there for close to 10 years and he is not a supervisor yet (although it is a supervisor in some respects) is a bit surprising to me. @Art VanDelay I think just like everyone in airport ops, he went from ops agent/trainee to assistant ops officer, then ops officer so I am pretty sure they he got raises rather than staying in the same pay grade.

@SkyDog58, I would assume if a person works in the private sector he would get promoted a lot quicker than if he works in civil service. In addition, I think a private sector employee would get promoted based on merits and work performance whereas in civil service, he would get promoted based on seniority and longevity.
 
N918KT said:
@SkyDog58, I would assume if a person works in the private sector he would get promoted a lot quicker than if he works in civil service. In addition, I think a private sector employee would get promoted based on merits and work performance whereas in civil service, he would get promoted based on seniority and longevity.
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Stereotypes being what they are... not always true in either one. :)

If you've ever met the boss' kid as he walks out of his freshly made and painted new office in private business... you know it doesn't always work on merit. Sometimes it's genetics.
 
N918KT said:
@SkyDog58, I would assume if a person works in the private sector he would get promoted a lot quicker than if he works in civil service. In addition, I think a private sector employee would get promoted based on merits and work performance whereas in civil service, he would get promoted based on seniority and longevity.
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You would be assuming wrong.

The answer to your initial question and my retort question is: "it depends". It depends on a wide variety of factors and they pretty much all apply to both private and public sector employment. A complete explanation would take entirely too much time to type out especially on this iPhone. All I can suggest is that you gain some more real life experiences and the answers will eventually reveal themselves to you.
 
N918KT said:
Thanks for the replies everyone. I know my coworker loves his job. He is not going anywhere at all.
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Probably why he's not getting promoted either. Like I mentioned, sometimes you've got to move around to move up.
 
N918KT said:
I know my coworker loves his job. He is not going anywhere at all. I am just saying that for me that he has been working there for close to 10 years and he is not a supervisor yet
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Does he want to get promoted? Does he want to be a supervisor? Has he been applying for such jobs? You generally don't "get promoted" in the civil service jobs that I'm used to. First there has to be an opening available, caused by somebody leaving (retiring, moving, etc.) Then you may be the best person for the job, but if you don't apply, you'll never get it. It's not like the boss just comes up to you and says "Hey, want a promotion? Timmy just retired and it's yours if you want it." Matter of fact, at least in federal civil service, that would violate any of a number of fair hiring practices and open the agency to lawsuits.

I would assume if a person works in the private sector he would get promoted a lot quicker than if he works in civil service. In addition, I think a private sector employee would get promoted based on merits and work performance whereas in civil service, he would get promoted based on seniority and longevity.
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As others have already said, that's a completely incorrect assumption. Some people get promoted very quickly in federal service. Some people languish forever in private sectors. And vice versa. Type of employer has no bearing on this. It's all dependent on the exact job, the individual's performance and desires, available openings, willingness to move/change companies/agencies, and often a whole lot of politics (meaning, does the boss like me).

You haven't actually said whether the coworker even wants to get promoted. You did say he loves his job and doesn't want to go anywhere. Maybe he hasn't been promoted because he doesn't want to accept the negatives that might come with that. Maybe the pay increase wouldn't be enough to offset longer hours, or more responsibility. Being a supervisor isn't for everyone. Not everybody wants to deal with developing the work schedule, budget issues, manpower, discipline, all of that.
 
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Some people just want to do what they do and that's that. others want to climb, climb, climb.....

In the Fed, you can basically stay in the same job until you die if you wanted to. max out at step 10 and just marinate.
 
My nephew has palsy and was able to get a job at Walmart retrieving carts from the parking lot. He stayed in that job for a very long time and got the scheduled raises and "promotions" as outlined in the union agreement even though he did the same job. They had to let him go because they were paying him way more than the value of his work. Now he stays at home with the kids and his wife supports the family (that and he gets a check from the rest of us).

There's a lesson here somewhere.
 
cgrab said:
My nephew has palsy and was able to get a job at Walmart retrieving carts from the parking lot. He stayed in that job for a very long time and got the scheduled raises and "promotions" as outlined in the union agreement even though he did the same job. They had to let him go because they were paying him way more than the value of his work. Now he stays at home with the kids and his wife supports the family (that and he gets a check from the rest of us).

There's a lesson here somewhere.
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When did Walmart start having a union? And how could the union get him raises, but not protect his job at the union pay rate for that job?
 
We need the companion thread: How long does it usually take for a civil service employee to get Fired?

I'm guessing the promotions and firings happen with the same snail-like speed.
 
RussR said:
Does he want to get promoted? Does he want to be a supervisor? Has he been applying for such jobs? You generally don't "get promoted" in the civil service jobs that I'm used to. First there has to be an opening available, caused by somebody leaving (retiring, moving, etc.) Then you may be the best person for the job, but if you don't apply, you'll never get it. It's not like the boss just comes up to you and says "Hey, want a promotion? Timmy just retired and it's yours if you want it." Matter of fact, at least in federal civil service, that would violate any of a number of fair hiring practices and open the agency to lawsuits.



As others have already said, that's a completely incorrect assumption. Some people get promoted very quickly in federal service. Some people languish forever in private sectors. And vice versa. Type of employer has no bearing on this. It's all dependent on the exact job, the individual's performance and desires, available openings, willingness to move/change companies/agencies, and often a whole lot of politics (meaning, does the boss like me).

You haven't actually said whether the coworker even wants to get promoted. You did say he loves his job and doesn't want to go anywhere. Maybe he hasn't been promoted because he doesn't want to accept the negatives that might come with that. Maybe the pay increase wouldn't be enough to offset longer hours, or more responsibility. Being a supervisor isn't for everyone. Not everybody wants to deal with developing the work schedule, budget issues, manpower, discipline, all of that.
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As far as I know, I really don't know if he wants to get promoted. But I know he is not looking to leave. I don't think there are any openings for a supervisor position at this time.
 
rolivi said:
We need the companion thread: How long does it usually take for a civil service employee to get Fired?

I'm guessing the promotions and firings happen with the same snail-like speed.
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There are several reasons you can get fired and end your service in 1 day. Sleeping on the job, internet security breech, and drug impairment on the job.
All other reasons require 3 counseling chits.
 
There are ways to encourage poor employees to improve or quit. For employees too lazy to do a good job, we helped them improve by additional training. It just happened that training only took place on midnight shift. (The equipment had to be used for production on the other two shifts.)
 
N918KT said:
As far as I know, I really don't know if he wants to get promoted. But I know he is not looking to leave. I don't think there are any openings for a supervisor position at this time.
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Well if he doesn't want to go anywhere else, and there are no openings for a supervisor position, then there's no way for him to get promoted until one of those two things change.
 
The vast majority of civil servants will remain at some final grade level for the majority of their career. There are not enough supervisory/skill jobs for the millions the government employs. Somebody still has to open the mail every morning, enter the data, review the applications/forms/reports for completeness before passing them up the chain.
One of the boaters we winter with in Florida worked at Immigration as the officer who made the final decision if an applicant was allowed to enter the country or not. He was perfectly happy at his job. Knew the relevant regulations and the court rulings in fine detail. Did not want the politics of being a supervisor and the misery of dealing with disgruntled workers. He took that job after putting in his twenty years in the military. Then put twenty years in the immigration office and is now getting two full time retirement checks a month and just turned 60 this year. Plus he married a Canadian and has legal resident status in Canada, including free medical so he doesn't have to deal with the VA (which he says is the den of satan)
There are civil servants happier than a pig in fresh mud.
So was Lois Lerner until the wheels came off her bus.
 
RussR said:
Well if he doesn't want to go anywhere else, and there are no openings for a supervisor position, then there's no way for him to get promoted until one of those two things change.
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Yep. It really is that simple.
 
Mason said:
When did Walmart start having a union? And how could the union get him raises, but not protect his job at the union pay rate for that job?
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Not a union, I misspoke, it was the agreement on the pay schedule at the store.
 
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