How long does IFR take???

NineThreeKilo said:
Well my opinion is based of teaching quite a few folks how to fly.

There are two ways to train people

1) train them to pass a test, this is very common with inexperienced CFIs, as all their experience is around the PTS, flight schools, a few DPEs and being then teaching students.

2) train them to not only pass the test but also be proficient in the real world (this requires real world knowledge). Case and point, if I as ask most CFIIs to state the instruments in their scan, I'll get the standard issue answer, AI, AS, HI, ALT, etc HOWEVER most of these CFIIs who really dont do any IMC flying, or have ever gone on any across-the-country, cross countries FAIL to mention OAT, and that will KILL you in a light single in IMC.


Now if you are not going to do any IMC flying, you just want to pass a test and get instrument on the back of your ticket, it's not hard to get someone to pass the tests (especially if one has past debrief experience on that DPE and knows his exact checkride). This is what alot of puppy mill schools and fast pace programs do.

So there is a completion time difference between 1 &2
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Are you an active flight instructor?
 
I had my first lesson last night. My cross country hours are at 46, but I'm expecting the long IFR cross country training flight to finish up that requirement, if I don't knock them out traveling to take care of my Mom in the mean time.

My problem now is finding a safety pilot. I LOVE living in the boondocks. The fresh air, the wildlife, the Peace & Quiet.... , but I think I'm going to pay for it on this. There are very few pilots of any description out here, so I don't know exactly what I'm going to do.
 
I got mine with 35 hours in the plane and 5 in a simulator. About 20hrs dual.
 
I figure you might be able to shorten the training time by combining the IFR training with a XC flight. This way, you satisfy the 50 hours PIC XC with the x amount of hours instrument instruction.
 
IFR took 6 months, PPL took 6 months. Com took about 1 month.

I was working 60 hours a week at the time so getting it done any faster would have been almost impossible because all my free time was flying. All of the Inst training was over the winter months so all the training was at night with actual and icing thrown in for good measure.
 
Will give my .02.
How long it takes, is of course based on how often you can fly. But also how confident is your CFII to get you up in the system.
Doing things by Rote memory, doesn't make you a competent or confident pilot.

Get up in the system in ACTUAL. Flying under the hood is not the same as being in actual, in both good and bad ways. Good way for me was the foggles gave me a headache, so I ENJOYED getting up in actual, bad way was you couldn't just take them off and you are VFR.
Since I needed most of my 50 XC time since I started right after my PPL, my CFII and I always went somewhere on every lesson that was 51nm from our point of departure and did the approach AND landing, so it would count.
 
I don't know how you guys all finished so quickly. I'm 7 flights into training and I feel like I'm :mad2:

I'm sure the light will come just as it did with the ppl but for now a lot of info is coming my way and trying hard to retain it all!
 
sacbluesman said:
I don't know how you guys all finished so quickly. I'm 7 flights into training and I feel like I'm :mad2:

I'm sure the light will come just as it did with the ppl but for now a lot of info is coming my way and trying hard to retain it all!
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It gets better. You feel like you're drinking from the firehose and drowning because of it at first.

After you get aircraft control then you start getting how the plates and the system work.

Then you start getting how the communication works.

Then you have a setback day where it all goes to complete ****. Ha.

Then you realize that will happen IMC someday and you can't give up.

You then start to get it right again but it's not polished or fluid.

And then you get partial panel and time to get angry with yourself all over again. Ha.

Then you get the hang of that and some XC time and you're starting to build patterns and flows that seem to work.

It just starts as complete frustration and slowly gets better. Then one day you realize you flew back to back approaches, partial panel thrown in for good measure, and the instructor didn't say anything the whole time and the airplane is back at the airport in one piece.

Not long after that the instructor says, "We need to talk about scheduling a DPE", and you think, "Whoa! Cool!"

You'll get it. :)
 
denverpilot said:
It gets better. You feel like you're drinking from the firehose and drowning because of it at first.

After you get aircraft control then you start getting how the plates and the system work.

Then you start getting how the communication works.

Then you have a setback day where it all goes to complete ****. Ha.

Then you realize that will happen IMC someday and you can't give up.

You then start to get it right again but it's not polished or fluid.

And then you get partial panel and time to get angry with yourself all over again. Ha.

Then you get the hang of that and some XC time and you're starting to build patterns and flows that seem to work.

It just starts as complete frustration and slowly gets better. Then one day you realize you flew back to back approaches, partial panel thrown in for good measure, and the instructor didn't say anything the whole time and the airplane is back at the airport in one piece.

Not long after that the instructor says, "We need to talk about scheduling a DPE", and you think, "Whoa! Cool!"

You'll get it. :)
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Forgot the holding pattern entries stage. That seems to confuse and delay a lot of students.
 
cirrusmx said:
Forgot the holding pattern entries stage. That seems to confuse and delay a lot of students.
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I was reading in IFR Refresher awhile back that DPEs are encountering problems with students not being able to enter and hold with the CDI. The students had CFIIs that allowed them to use the GPS moving map for holding, therefore they never developed skills on how to enter and hold with the CDI. Any examiners out there had this problem? I know in my training the moving map was a valuable tool to help me hold but I still used the CDI as primary.
 
Velocity173 said:
I was reading in IFR Refresher awhile back that DPEs are encountering problems with students not being able to enter and hold with the CDI. The students had CFIIs that allowed them to use the GPS moving map for holding, therefore they never developed skills on how to enter and hold with the CDI. Any examiners out there had this problem? I know in my training the moving map was a valuable tool to help me hold but I still used the CDI as primary.
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Not a problem with my trainees -- no GPS allowed until they can do it on VOR/CDI alone, even if that means dimming out the PFD and using the standby instruments and "real" #2 CDI head. But I must sadly admit to being unsurprised by this news.
 
cirrusmx said:
Forgot the holding pattern entries stage. That seems to confuse and delay a lot of students.
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Oh for God's sake. Did you have to bring that up? ;)

Haha. I had forgotten that Doc Bruce pulled up our ground track one night on FlightAware and posted EXACTLY what had happened in the airplane by looking at the looping mess I had made somewhere over Nebraska. Right down to what Jesse said, even.

Was funny... later. Haha.
 
murphey said:
Let's see....I started late 2007. Hoping I don't take 21 years.
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I would say "get butt to Nebraska" but a little biddy told me today that you're gainfully employed again in this silly tech biz. ;)

Congrats, by the way. Hope it wasn't supposed to be a big secret.
 
I started in fall 2009 and until two weeks ago was sure I was going to finish this summer. Now it's probably not going to happen this year. :mad2:

21 years? I can easily believe it. :(
 
denverpilot said:
I would say "get butt to Nebraska" but a little biddy told me today that you're gainfully employed again in this silly tech biz. ;)

Congrats, by the way. Hope it wasn't supposed to be a big secret.
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Nah...just been too busy the past couple months. Been commuting to the Springs until the Denver office got up and running.
 
azure said:
I started in fall 2009 and until two weeks ago was sure I was going to finish this summer. Now it's probably not going to happen this year. :mad2:

21 years? I can easily believe it. :(
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Grab that new written and keep the momentum going if you can. I know sometimes crap just gets in the way, all too well.

But I don't want to think about what doing it that way actually cost me in real dollars. Not good.

I'm okay with how it all turned out but I don't recommend the 21 year IR plan. ;)

Keep the balls in the air or just plan on a full stop and a strict budget to save up for "hammer time". It's really worth it.

Totally understand if life gets in the way, just hoping to encourage you guys/gals not to emulate my timeline. :)
 
Well the written should be knocked off early this week and I don't expect any problems (I've aced all 4 practice exams I've taken so far, though none of them had any of the new FIKI ship questions, or even anything on GPS). But it's been a 2 week delay, classes start less than 3 weeks from now, and I have to start getting ready for them. I'm going to try to work the checkride in but unless everything just falls into place schedule-wise, it's not likely to work out.

I know it costs money to keep up instrument skills but I'd rather try to do that than completely drop it for a year or two.
 
PPL 185 hours, IFR 45 hours.
 
Took me 81 days, from written to checkride. 40.1 hours instrument time at the checkride.
 
gcd89 said:
Did it take more or less hours than your PPL?
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Does that matter? Just asking.

If I were a star student, and got signed off on the bare minimum time, would that make me better equipped to go into IMC than the person that took twice as long as me?

If you're just budgeting, make sure you add the training time to whatever you're going to plunk down on a capable AC.
 
About 4 months and 40.6 hrs.

I had the luxury of scheduling my work in a way that gave me 3 mornings off every other week. Went flying from 8-1 and to work from 3pm to midnight.
 
Ron Levy said:
Assuming you have most all of the 50 hours of XC PIC time completed (45 is PIC's book minimum), and you have the minimum 3 hours of instrument time from your PP training, you can do the remaining 37 hours (combination of sim and flight time) and the practical test in as little as 10 days -- we do that all the time at Professional Instrument Courses (PIC -- http://www.iflyifr.com).
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New member here. I would use caution before recommending any of these quick and dirty 7/10 day/2 week schools. The tendency of these places to cut corners (Bare minimum to pass) is well documented. And typically, a customer is stuck with whoever the school sends them no matter how good/bad, abrasive, etc.. Also, I don't think this is what the OP was asking.
 
L. Ichtenstien said:
New member here. I would use caution before recommending any of these quick and dirty 7/10 day/2 week schools. The tendency of these places to cut corners (Bare minimum to pass) is well documented. And typically, a customer is stuck with whoever the school sends them no matter how good/bad, abrasive, etc.. Also, I don't think this is what the OP was asking.
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I'd like to see your evidence on these points. I know that PIC will send you another instructor if you don't like the one you've got -- I've been the replacement on one occasion myself. As for cutting corners, I'd like to see you provide a statement from any PIC graduate who said that.

On the contrary, I have many letters from my PIC clients praising our thoroughness and teaching them how to operate "real world," not just pass the test. In fact, the only negative comments I ever got from a PIC client were for being too demanding -- I wouldn't sign an IPC until the client hand-flew an ILS in his Cirrus rather than using the autopilot, and fly one non-precision approach with the Avidyne PFD dimmed to black ("primary flight instrument inoperative"). For typical PIC graduate comments, see http://www.iflyifr.com/testimonial.php.

BTW, that client admitted to not having hand-flown anything other than takeoffs and landings since being checked out in the Cirrus two years earlier. It took the full three days for which the client had originally contracted, but eventually I was able to get the client to do both tasks safely and did sign the IPC and a flight review before I left.
 
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Ron Levy said:
I'd like to see your evidence on these points. I know that PIC will send you another instructor if you don't like the one you've got -- I've been the replacement on one occasion myself. As for cutting corners, I'd like to see you provide a statement from any PIC graduate who said that.

On the contrary, I have many letters from my PIC clients praising our thoroughness and teaching them how to operate "real world," not just pass the test. In fact, the only negative comments I ever got from a PIC client were for being too demanding -- I wouldn't sign an IPC until the client hand-flew an ILS in his Cirrus rather than using the autopilot, and fly one non-precision approach with the Avidyne PFD dimmed to black ("primary flight instrument inoperative"). For typical PIC graduate comments, see http://www.iflyifr.com/testimonial.php.

BTW, that client admitted to not having hand-flown anything other than takeoffs and landings since being checked out in the Cirrus two years earlier. It took the full three days for which the client had originally contracted, but eventually I was able to get the client to do both tasks safely and did sign the IPC and a flight review before I left.
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That's my one beef with Cirrus Standard Training. That's how they train--hand fly takeoffs and landings, but use the autopilot. My transition training included the autopilot, but was otherwise similar to other transition training I had.

And frankly, the Cirrus is a great IFR platform, and not at all hard to hand fly any type of approach (especially if your PFD is operative).
 
It takes what it takes. I am sorry but I thought the whole purpose of training is to become safe doing something. All this it took me one week or one year or twenty one years confuses me. Who cares if you learn it in one week or one year or twenty one years? What I think we all should concentrate on is making sure that we become safe pilots no matter what certification we are trying to get. I do not believe that training to meet the minimal standards is sufficient, we should be training to do what is needed to be safe.

Sorry for my rant, and if I have ruffled some feathers I am sorry as well, but this country's motto seem to have gone from being the best in the world to striving for mediocrity, and I for one am getting tired of it.

Bash me all you want.

Doug
 
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