How does this happen?

3393RP

3393RP

En-Route
Joined
Oct 8, 2012
Messages
4,235
Display Name
Display name:
3393RP
First of all, I wish to express my condolences to those affected by this accident. Losing a loved one or friend in an aviation incident is a heart wrenching experience.

That being said, I cannot understand the thought processes that allow a pilot to place himself in this position.

On November 1, 2013, at 1742 central daylight time, a Beech C90, N269JG, impacted terrain 4 miles southeast of the Springdale Municipal Airport, Springdale, Arkansas. The private pilot and passenger were fatally injured. The airplane was destroyed. The airplane was registered to J&G Aviation, LLC, and operated by the pilot, both of Camden, Arkansas, under the provisions of 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 91 as a personal flight. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed for the flight, and no flight plan had been filed. The flight originated from Pine Bluff, Arkansas, about 1700.

According to the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), the pilot contacted Fort Smith, Arkansas (FSM), and advised he was en route from Pine Bluff (PBF), Arkansas, to Bentonville (VBT), Arkansas. He was given flight following services. Later, the pilot said he wanted to change his destination to Fayetteville (KFYV), Arkansas.

When the FSM controller asked the reason for the destination change and if he required any assistance, the pilot stated he was low on fuel. He requested the distance to FYV, and the controller told him it was 9 miles away. The pilot said he needed something closer. The controller advised that Springdale Airport (ASG) was at his 12 o'clock position and 4 miles away. The pilot said he had ASG in sight and was familiar with the airport.

The controller issued the pilot a frequency change to ASG tower. The pilot contacted ASG tower and reported he was low on fuel. The ASG controller issued the wind conditions and altimeter setting and cleared the pilot to land on runway 36. Approximately 30 seconds later, the pilot advised ASG that he was not going to make the airport. The ASG controller attempted to get the aircraft's position. No further transmissions were received from the pilot.

A witness saw the airplane descend, pull up abruptly, and impact the ground in a right wing-low, nose-low attitude. There were power lines about 300 feet short of the impact point.

The on-scene examination revealed no ground scars, only impact ground gouges. Control continuity was established from the flight controls to the center of the airplane. The right wing was destroyed. No fuel was observed in the left wing or nacelle tanks. The landing gear and flaps were retracted. Propeller signatures indicate the propellers were not feathered.

http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief.aspx?ev_id=20131101X04142&key=1
Click to expand...

When this pilot told the ASM tower he was low on fuel and the controller offered FYV (Fayetteville), the pilot was less than ten minutes flying time from that airport. The pilot indicated he did not have enough fuel to make it to FYV, and the controller directed him to ASG (Springdale), just four miles away.

Although he was literally just seconds away from ASG, the aircraft ran out of fuel and crashed. Photographs and satellite images show large open farm fields in the area, but the pilot apparently failed to take advantage of this. It appears from the news article and photographs he stalled the aircraft and hit the ground hard nose first as he attempted to avoid power lines.

The 72 year old pilot and his companion were traveling to watch the pilot's grandson play in a high school football game.

The crash site is about twelve miles from the flight's intended destination of VBT (Bentonville), and the distance between the flight's origination of PBF (Pine Bluff) and VBT is 195 miles.

I just don't know what to say about it...if the facts are as they appear, this pilot threw away his life and his companion's too. It would have been so simple to avoid this tragedy.

Taking twenty or thirty minutes to fuel the aircraft before takeoff, a brief inconvenience, would have assured a safe arrival. The pilot knew he had to refuel before returning to Pine Bluff...why didn't he just take care of it prior to departure on the outbound leg and call it done?

Relatives said the pilot had owned the King Air for a decade, and had flown for many years. Did he get complacent, did he do a quick calculation in his head and assume he had enough fuel to make his destination?

Incidents like this one are a punch in the gut...an otherwise competent pilot, a nice Friday evening trip to watch a grandson play football, and it ended tragically and unnecessarily.
 
Last edited:
The dude must have been broke. We all would have taken on fuel to make a round trip in such an airplane. If this is not the case, he was too drunk or stupid to consider the reality of his position; being broke. He must have had a serviceable car to drive the mistress to his son's game. Maybe it was out of gas too?
 
Maybe I'm missing it but I don't see anything in that report to indicate why there was a fuel issue. Everyone seems to be assuming that it's because the pilot was stupid but I don't think any of them actually knew the pilot.

As for the stall/spin that caused the fatalities - it happens to the best of us so don't assume you'd have been easily capable of avoiding it under the same circumstances.
 
I'm not making any assumptions nor am I passing judgement. That's why I said " if the facts are as they appear".

Certainly making an off airport emergency landing in a twin turboprop is a very serious undertaking.

I am saddened by this event. More than likely a confluence of the fates played a hand in this, my intent in commenting was to point out the inexplicable actions of the pilot and my puzzlement at what appears to be inadequate or faulty skills. This type of accident happens all too often and it's always frustrating, especially when fuel exhaustion is the culprit.

But I don't know the absolute facts, and thus my reserve in making judgement.
 
DC34ME said:
The dude must have been broke. We all would have taken on fuel to make a round trip in such an airplane. If this is not the case, he was too drunk or stupid to consider the reality of his position; being broke. He must have had a serviceable car to drive the mistress to his son's game. Maybe it was out of gas too?
Click to expand...


Damn.:crazy: That's kind of brutal don't ya think?

Odds are, a King Air owner isn't going to be strapped to the point of fuel starvation .....

The class hatred in your post is so glaringly apparent, it practically leaps off the page. :rolleyes2:
 
Pilots running out of fuel is the leading cause of emergency off field landings. Dont do it. ;)
 
Maybe the pilot ran into a bunch of headwind. Or maybe the "passenger" was running late and they hurried to make it to the football game and didn't realize how low they were on fuel. Maybe the pilot put the fuel cap on wrong and so it leaked out. Maybe it just had a leak. So many possibiliities for low fuel. He may have thought "Oh I need fuel but we're running late I'll see if there is somewhere I can go" and then it was too late. Down low King Air probably burn a bunch of fuel.
 
It is OK rip the dead guy apart. We're going to do it to you when you run out of fuel. Evidence suggests we are all capable of doing it.
 
txflyer said:
Damn.:crazy: That's kind of brutal don't ya think?

Odds are, a King Air owner isn't going to be strapped to the point of fuel starvation .....

The class hatred in your post is so glaringly apparent, it practically leaps off the page. :rolleyes2:
Click to expand...


I think maybe rather than "hate" we are looking at "gallows humor." Not everyone is into that sort of humor but it is part of human existence.
 
saracelica said:
Maybe the pilot ran into a bunch of headwind. Or maybe the "passenger" was running late and they hurried to make it to the football game and didn't realize how low they were on fuel. Maybe the pilot put the fuel cap on wrong and so it leaked out. Maybe it just had a leak. So many possibiliities for low fuel. He may have thought "Oh I need fuel but we're running late I'll see if there is somewhere I can go" and then it was too late. Down low King Air probably burn a bunch of fuel.
Click to expand...

All of which can be avoided. ;)
 
DC34ME said:
The dude must have been broke. We all would have taken on fuel to make a round trip in such an airplane. If this is not the case, he was too drunk or stupid to consider the reality of his position; being broke. He must have had a serviceable car to drive the mistress to his son's game. Maybe it was out of gas too?
Click to expand...
There is no need for that , we don't know all the facts or maybe you do .
 
His home drome (Pine Bluff) always has some of the lowest fuel prices in the vicinity. I check 100 NM radius from Russellville regularly to check my pricing and PBF is always the lowest or near lowest for full service Jet-A.
 
Greed.
Like Graueraudler sez, he did minimum fuel to get to cheap fuel and miscalculated.

The St Ignace accident with 5 aboard in the Baron was the same thing. http://dms.ntsb.gov/aviation/AccidentReports/me3jhj45e4jmblbut05bl1nc1/Q11092013120000.pdf except that pilot was a maroon for a few OTHER reasons as well.

The local accident here in Germantown Hills, IL http://dms.ntsb.gov/aviation/AccidentReports/thxbvk55zdfrjsfc1dlsvs451/N11092013120000.pdf wrecked a C172 for lack of a gallon. He was not going to buy expensive FBO fuel, just 22 miles from home. Ended up in a tree, but lived. The really sad part was the a/c was IN A TREE, intact, and then the fire dept. cut the tree down.....


Transcends all classes of pilots. Like another has said, "Don't be doing that". Saves a lotta money, huh?

Forrest Gump said something relevant here.... "...pid is as ...pid does". IMO this is one that you CAN, with discipline, do something about.

"I wonder how the accident report is going to read" is a good place to start.
 
Last edited:
bbchien said:
Greed.
Like Graueraudler sez, he did minimum fuel to get to cheap fuel and miscalculated.
Click to expand...

Two mistakes. First, the flight originated at PBF ($4.75 SS, $5.00 FS). Bentonville, VBT, the destination was $5.90. Second, I was wrong about PBF being his home drome.

Otherwise, great post as usual.
 
I like to wait until the report comes out,and then use it as a learning experience. Since the pilot is no longer with us ,we really don't know what was on his mind.
 
bbchien said:
Greed.
Like Graueraudler sez, he did minimum fuel to get to cheap fuel and miscalculated.

The St Ignace accident with 5 aboard in the Baron was the same thing. http://dms.ntsb.gov/aviation/AccidentReports/me3jhj45e4jmblbut05bl1nc1/Q11092013120000.pdf except that pilot was a maroon for a few OTHER reasons as well.

The local accident here in Germantown Hills, IL http://dms.ntsb.gov/aviation/AccidentReports/thxbvk55zdfrjsfc1dlsvs451/N11092013120000.pdf wrecked a C172 for lack of a gallon. He was not going to buy expensive FBO fuel, just 22 miles from home. Ended up in a tree, but lived. The really sad part was the a/c was IN A TREE, intact, and then the fire dept. cut the tree down.....


Transcends all classes of pilots. Like another has said, "Don't be doing that". Saves a lotta money, huh?

Forrest Gump said something relevant here.... "...pid is as ...pid does". IMO this is one that you CAN, with discipline, do something about.

"I wonder how the accident report is going to read" is a good place to start.
Click to expand...

My old KA-90 met it's demise by the new owner trying to fly to another airport nearby for fuel. Flame out after takeoff. :nonod:

NTSB report
 
Last edited:
3393RP said:
Although he was literally just seconds away from ASG, the aircraft ran out of fuel and crashed.
Click to expand...

Speculating, perhaps he was already out of fuel by the time he reported the problem to ATC. It wouldn't be the first time someone played down an emergency to save from embarrassment.
 
DC34ME said:
The dude must have been broke. We all would have taken on fuel to make a round trip in such an airplane. If this is not the case, he was too drunk or stupid to consider the reality of his position; being broke. He must have had a serviceable car to drive the mistress to his son's game. Maybe it was out of gas too?
Click to expand...


Maybe you should bring more to the table then a CPL and operating in a small handful of states, before you make a statement like that.

$5 says you probably couldn't even start a king air
 
I think Henning says, "Pilots are cheap bastards" or something like that.;)
It's funny, it doesn't matter if it's a Cessna 150 or a Citation, pilots, especially owner/pilots LOVE cheap fuel, and HATE paying more when they know they can buy it at XXX for $.75 less per gallon! I don't know if that was the cause here, but it wouldn't be the first and won't be the last airplane destroyed trying to save $50.00:yikes:


RotorAndWing said:
My old KA-90 met it's demise by the new owner trying to fly to another airport nearby for fuel. Flame out after takeoff. :nonod:

NTSB report
Click to expand...
 
N747JB said:
I think Henning says, "Pilots are cheap bastards" or something like that.;)
It's funny, it doesn't matter if it's a Cessna 150 or a Citation, pilots, especially owner/pilots LOVE cheap fuel, and HATE paying more when they know they can buy it at XXX for $.75 less per gallon! I don't know if that was the cause here, but it wouldn't be the first and won't be the last airplane destroyed trying to save $50.00:yikes:
Click to expand...

The funny thing is most places when I ask "what's your price for 100 gallons?" or more, I always get a break. Most FBOs will negotiate on fuel price, especially if you're nice.
 
Henning said:
The funny thing is most places when I ask "what's your price for 100 gallons?" or more, I always get a break. Most FBOs will negotiate on fuel price, especially if you're nice.
Click to expand...

I got 15% off my last purchase. Still wasn't as cheap as the SS, but the fuel pump was on the other end of the airport and I didn't want to have to risk doing a hot start.
 
bartmc said:
I got 15% off my last purchase. Still wasn't as cheap as the SS, but the fuel pump was on the other end of the airport and I didn't want to have to risk doing a hot start.
Click to expand...

If you have hot start issues with your Bo, then you probably need to learn a different procedure or else have something else wrong with it.
 
Got to feel for the family on this one. Poor guy is only trying to get to a football game and this happens.

I'm a little disturbed by the responses I've seen in this thread. A fellow pilot died here so can we lay off the crusificition until we at least have all the facts.

The only thing I read that made me question beside the fuel issue is why te landing gear was up on impact. I've never flown a twin or a plane with retractable gear, for that matter, so can someone who has tell me, is it standard protocol to keep the gear in the up position for as long as possible during an off field landing? I'd imagine you would to reduce drag and increase glide distance but why would he not deploy the gear prior to landing?
 
jspilot said:
I'd imagine you would to reduce drag and increase glide distance but why would he not deploy the gear prior to landing?
Click to expand...

  1. he forgot, likely given the stress of the situation
  2. milking the glide distance
  3. very soft field, he felt he was better off without landing gear
 
jspilot said:
Got to feel for the family on this one. Poor guy is only trying to get to a football game and this happens.

I'm a little disturbed by the responses I've seen in this thread. A fellow pilot died here so can we lay off the crusificition until we at least have all the facts.

The only thing I read that made me question beside the fuel issue is why te landing gear was up on impact. I've never flown a twin or a plane with retractable gear, for that matter, so can someone who has tell me, is it standard protocol to keep the gear in the up position for as long as possible during an off field landing? I'd imagine you would to reduce drag and increase glide distance but why would he not deploy the gear prior to landing?
Click to expand...

I may be wrong, but I thought gear up was best for off field unless it's a pretty smooth spot to land. I've read about planes causing more damage with gear down in rough terrain.
 
rbridges said:
I may be wrong, but I thought gear up was best for off field unless it's a pretty smooth spot to land. I've read about planes causing more damage with gear down in rough terrain.
Click to expand...

Forget the damage to the plane, damage absorbs energy. When you're crashing what you want to consider is how to best absorb most of the energy, the gear typically does a good job at that as it rips off and crushes.
 
txflyer said:
Damn.:crazy: That's kind of brutal don't ya think?

Odds are, a King Air owner isn't going to be strapped to the point of fuel starvation .....

The class hatred in your post is so glaringly apparent, it practically leaps off the page. :rolleyes2:
Click to expand...

I see a lot of speculation in his post, but where do you see class hatred? :confused:
 
Henning said:
Forget the damage to the plane, damage absorbs energy. When you're crashing what you want to consider is how to best absorb most of the energy, the gear typically does a good job at that as it rips off and crushes.
Click to expand...

good point. I remember an article that mentioned a plane flipping when its nose gear dug into the ground. That's always stuck in my mind. I've always told myself I'd go gear up but I may look into that a bit more.
 
Palmpilot said:
I see a lot of speculation in his post, but where do you see class hatred? :confused:
Click to expand...


Calling the dead King Air pilot owner stupid, drunk, broke, and unfaithful to his wife is speculation and not knee-jerk class hatred?

You must think like him. :rolleyes2:
 
txflyer said:
Calling the dead King Air pilot owner stupid, drunk, broke, and unfaithful to his wife is speculation and not knee-jerk class hatred?
Click to expand...

So if someone is flying a King Air, any negative comment about him is automatically class hatred?

You must think like him. :rolleyes2:
Click to expand...

I'm not saying that his comments were appropriate or correct.
 
rbridges said:
good point. I remember an article that mentioned a plane flipping when its nose gear dug into the ground. That's always stuck in my mind. I've always told myself I'd go gear up but I may look into that a bit more.
Click to expand...

It depends on the off-field. But when in doubt, I'll leave the gear up. Arresting a vertical descent is easy. What I'm worried about is forward Gs from an abrupt stop.
 
Palmpilot said:
So if someone is flying a King Air, any negative comment about him is automatically class hatred?



I'm not saying that his comments were appropriate or correct.
Click to expand...


In the context he put it in, definitely.

Why does everyone try to figure out the operation of everyone's mind around here.?

Just read the post for what it is.
 
ClimbnSink said:
It is OK rip the dead guy apart. We're going to do it to you when you run out of fuel. Evidence suggests we are all capable of doing it.
Click to expand...
:yes:.

Must be easy for some of these guys to speculate from a computer desk...
 
Palmpilot said:
I have the same question for you.
Click to expand...


This board is bad with everyone trying to prove their intellectual superiority.

I don't care.

The man made a statement. I interpreted it. Seems pretty spot on to me, and all your bitching isn't going to change my mind. :rolleyes2:
 
txflyer said:
The man made a statement. I interpreted it.
Click to expand...

That's my point. He made no mention of what class the accident pilot was in.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top