How Does MoGas work?

bnt83 said:
Look how many times RVP standards have changed.

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/fuels/gasolinefuels/volatility/regulations.htm

Has it cause a problem?
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Has it? I have no clue if there has been anyone flying Mogas that it has affected. I also don't know what the standard for Mogas on the certificate is. Perhaps the easing of standards you see there is a vapor emissions standard more stringent than that used for the STC? :dunno: Does it affect cars?:dunno: Might change fuel economy, but with modern engines it shouldn't cause a running problem since the systems operate under high enough pressure that they won't vapor lock. With the sensors and digital management systems, they aren't going to self destruct on change of fuel grade.
 
There is an Exxon hub distributor nearby where I get my farm diesel. I'm going to ask them if they can get mogas. They're very accomodating and they get my Exxon Elite motor oil for me. I'll bet they can get mogas in 55 gallon barrels if I agree to buy it.

And as far as the IRS is concerned, it's going to the farm.

Win-win. :)
 
James331 said:
Ouch! 2900 bucks!

For mine it was something like 1.50 per hp. Of course it's jus paper work and no mods to the plane aside from new decals for the fuel caps.

http://www.autofuelstc.com/
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Both the EAA and Petersen charge $1.50/hp. But the difference being:

Petersen charges 50% of the original cost to replace lost paperwork for an STC that they previously sold (this happened to me on a plane I bought).

EAA charges a nominal paperwork fee. $25 I think.

Thus, if I ever need to buy one that is available from both...you can bet who I'll be buying from.
 
Man, the local farm store is really tempting me to abandon my 5 gallon cans and go with a truck mounted fueling system.

They have a 100 Gal DeeZee L-shaped tank on sale for $349.

And a 13 GPM, 12V, Fill-Rite tank mounted fuel pump/hose/nozzle combo (approved for gas) on sale for $289. I'd need to buy an add'l 10' of hose to supplement the 10' that comes with.

I'm just still having a hard time justifying spending over $600 when my "5 gallon can system" works so well.

We'll see.
 
Check out Harbor Freight, you can get a transfer pump for a lot less and use their coupon in the back of Flying magazine for more savings. Not the best pump but let's face it, you don't use it that much.
 
cgrab said:
Check out Harbor Freight, you can get a transfer pump for a lot less and use their coupon in the back of Flying magazine for more savings. Not the best pump but let's face it, you don't use it that much.
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Thanks for the tip but...

I just hit their website and their pumps appear to be diesel only. It's my understanding that diesel pumps are not safe to use for transferring gasoline.

Also, it's only 9 gpm in lieu of 13...and lifting to a Cessna wing...???

I've bought my share of misc stuff at HF, especially if I won't oft use it...but I would hesitate to buy anything from them that involves the handling of a flammable material!

But that's just me! ;)
 
CTLSi said:
The Ethanol is not the culprit. Lead is the culprit. Lead spoils everything in an engine including the oil.

The higher horsepower hybrid fuel engines like the Continental IO-360-AF can burn Mogas with Ethanol, they just need more octane. At least 93.

The Rotax 912 can burn 91E10, in fact it prefers it.
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Your dead wrong. Ethanol is a stupid waste of taxpayers money. It's a political kiss to the farmer who depends too much on the government already for bailouts and gets poorer mileage than straight gas. It also can really ruin the aircraft engine feed lines under certain conditions and in turn cause an accident. It's caused food prices to skyrocket! real dumb move by congress to placate farmers. Time to stop it for good! Lead won WW2! It stopped detonation which high test gas solved. The Germans did not have it. While lead is bad, it is not the culprit ethanol is. Turning corn into fuel is an expensive, stupid alternative.
 
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Unless you fly often, at least once a week Mo gas can be big trouble. Example: left in the tank for a few months it degrades much faster than av gas. Reams of articles about this have been published. Wise to read up on what the experts say verses internet " authority's".
 
Yeah, but Petersen may be the only game. The EAA does a much smaller subset of aircraft than Petersen. If you're flying something more than a four cylinder, you will be out of luck at the EAA>
 
Jimmy cooper said:
Your dead wrong. Ethanol is a stupid waste of taxpayers money. It's a political kiss to the farmer who depends too much on the government already for bailouts and gets poorer mileage than straight gas. It also can really ruin the aircraft engine feed lines under certain conditions and in turn cause an accident. It's caused food prices to skyrocket! real dumb move by congress to placate farmers. Time to stop it for good! Lead won WW2! It stopped detonation which high test gas solved. The Germans did not have it. While lead is bad, it is not the culprit ethanol is. Turning corn into fuel is an expensive, stupid alternative.
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I am right. And I use mogas 91E10 exclusively. No one is talking about the the political aspects of Ethanol.

Lead is both unethical to use, and an engine killer. If you can find and run on unleaded non Ethanol, go for it. My setup allows me to use cheaper and more available 91E10.
 
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Jimmy cooper said:
Your dead wrong. Ethanol is a stupid waste of taxpayers money. It's a political kiss to the farmer who depends too much on the government already for bailouts and gets poorer mileage than straight gas. It also can really ruin the aircraft engine feed lines under certain conditions and in turn cause an accident. It's caused food prices to skyrocket! real dumb move by congress to placate farmers. Time to stop it for good! Lead won WW2! It stopped detonation which high test gas solved. The Germans did not have it. While lead is bad, it is not the culprit ethanol is. Turning corn into fuel is an expensive, stupid alternative.
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I tend to agree with you.
Most of the coastal folks haven't even been on a farm.

There is much room for error applying fertilizers, pesticides, herbicides, animal wastes, depleting aquifers to irrigate land. We haven't even scratched the surface of energy spent in the process itself yet. All these "investments" spent on crops are subject to risky losses via insect infestations, drought, animal damage, plant disease, hail and the list goes on. In a perfect world there MAY be a gain in ethanol, in the real-world, I bet net loss.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
Unless you fly often, at least once a week Mo gas can be big trouble. Example: left in the tank for a few months it degrades much faster than av gas. Reams of articles about this have been published. Wise to read up on what the experts say verses internet " authority's".
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Especially ^^^^that^^^^ one
 
Mogas is a fuel. It degrades no faster than 100LL or JetA. JetA is basically diesel fuel. 100LL is low lead gasoline, about 80 octane raised to 100 by the lead. The octane rating is really just an anti-knock rating.

All fuel will go stale if unused. It takes about 6 months. The constant rumors about mogas versus avgas are the result of collective ignorance on the chemistry of these fuels.

If you do not fly for half a year, either drain whats in the tanks, or freshen them by adding more FRESH fuel. The freshest fuel is from a high volume outlet, like a discount gas station. Or an air field that sells a lot of fuel.
 
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flyingron said:
Yeah, but Petersen may be the only game. The EAA does a much smaller subset of aircraft than Petersen. If you're flying something more than a four cylinder, you will be out of luck at the EAA>
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I believe our O-470 is on an EAA one, but I'd have to confirm that.
 
CTLSi said:
Mogas is a fuel. It degrades no faster than 100LL or JetA.
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Untrue. Avgas has stabilizers because it assumes that unlike car gas, may sit around in the tanks for extended periods. If you're going to allow mogas to sit (either in a plane or other vehicle), you'd be advised to add stabilizers to it. This is actually an issue in cars as well. The Chevy Volt is essentially an electric car that has a backup gas engine. Since many Volt drivers run on electricity for months at a time before using the gas, they mandate premium gas solely because it will work better when degraded over time.
JetA is basically diesel fuel.
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Which is like saying your light sport aircraft is essentially an ultralight.

Jet A is differentiated from over-the-road diesel in a number of ways, not the least of which is its low temperature properties.

100LL is low lead gasoline, about 80 octane raised to 100 by the lead. The octane rating is really just an anti-knock rating.
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Har. 100LL is low lead compared to nothing but the old 100/130 grade it replaced. It has way more lead than car gas ever had (even back int he days before you were born when car gas had lead). It is not the case that 100LL is just 80 with more lead (though it has 4 times the lead typically).
All fuel will go stale if unused. It takes about 6 months. The constant rumors about mogas versus avgas are the result of collective ignorance on the chemistry of these fuels.
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Nope the above statement is the result of your individual ignorance of things in general, let alone fuels.
If you do not fly for half a year, either drain whats in the tanks, or freshen them by adding more FRESH fuel.
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Bullhockey. Only true if you're using unstabilized gas (such as car pump gas) and just adding "fuel" will not "freshen" old gas.
 
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