How Do You Feel About Night XCs

[N521MA]

I do everything I can to avoid XC at night in piston single airplanes.
I do fly XC at night in a piston twin, but only on an IFR flight plan.

It's not just engine failure that I worry about. I've unexpectedly flown into clouds at night when it was supposed to be clear, picked up ice at night when there wasn't any forecast, and lost enough alternators to know that they can die (even new ones) day or night. Like someone said, the airplane doesn't know.

I know I'm in the minority, but single engine night XC doesn't provide me with enough "plan B" for my comfort level.

I hate to agree with what you saying, simply because I cant afford a twin, but you right 100%.

 

[dell30rb]

It's not just engine failure that I worry about. I've unexpectedly flown into clouds at night when it was supposed to be clear, picked up ice at night when there wasn't any forecast, and lost enough alternators to know that they can die (even new ones) day or night. Like someone said, the airplane doesn't know.

Singles fly in clouds just as well as a twin.

Assuming equal performance aircraft, I can't think of any advantages to accidentally hitting some ice in a non-deiced twin vs non-deiced single.

If you lose an alternator you can shut the load down to the bare minimum systems and get 20-30 minutes of radios/panel lights. Always fly with a handheld radio, ipad with GPS and two flashlights within easy reach. Even if the battery died you would still have the six pack (minus TC), a com/nav radio and a moving map GPS.

That said, losing the engine in a single at night is not something I want to experience. OTOH aircraft engines are very reliable and the time most of us spend flying at night is a relatively small number. Further if you cruise at a somewhat high altitude (on the east coast anyway) you are unlikely to be out of gliding distance from a lit airport. So the only danger areas are takeoff, and if you are flying bomber patterns or doing an IAP, landing.

 

[gismo]

Wanted to open the floor on general opinion of flying night VFR. Lets say conditions are CAVU or close to it. Thought it would be beneficial for all the new pilots to hear what experts have to say on this topic

Here are some of the questions that came to my mind to write about.....

Do you feel comfortable flying at night?

Yes, if very VMC and not mountainous terrain. Generally I fly IFR on trips of any length but I've flown a fair amount of night VFR in the past and still do on short legs if the weather is well above VFR minumums.

What is different about per-flight, if anything?

Things are harder to see in the cockpit (multiple flashlights are a must). Clouds can be nearly impossible to see until you are inside them. Spatial disorientation is a serious threat if the sky is overcast or the area is very sparsely populated. Under those conditions a pilot really ought to be instrument rated and current. Unlit obstacles (e.g. trees and powerlines) as well as terrain are virtually invisible at night. Lighted owers and other airplanes are actually easier to spot at night.

How do you prepare yourself for pitch black engine out situation knowing that picking a landing spot that is actually suitable for emergency scenario would not be an easy task.

For the last 17 years (has it really been that long?) my preparation generally consists of bringing an extra engine along. But even flying a single I've never felt that a night off airport landing was all that much of a valid concern. Statistics show that in light airplanes they are survivable for the most part and if you can manage to not run out of fuel, IMO they are far less frequent than other some other risks we tend to ignore.

Navigation - do you fly strictly by GPS and/or VOR?

Depends. I've flown purely by "pilotage" at night in familiar areas but I generally use electronic navigation for almost any XC flight, night or day.

Does flight following become a "must have" when flying at night?

No, if I want to talk to ATC I'll fly IFR.

Your personal preference on fuel reserves?

Day or night, I want at least 1hr at normal cruise in the tanks when I land. If the wx is crappy I want more regardless of the time of day. The one fuel issue I have with night flying is that the number of available avgas sources diminishes significantly at night.

Do you find yourself being more engaged with your checklist flying at night?

No. If a checklist item is needed during night flight it's probably just as important in the daytime unless it's specific to dark ops (e.g. lights).

How do you handle altitude above 5000 without oxygen system? Do you climb higher?

I routinely fly between 8000 and 10,000 without O2 but if I'm going to be above 9000 (or 10,000 for more than a half hour) day or night I prefer to use O2. At night I haven't found that flight between 5000 and 9000 without O2 presents any significant loss of vision or any other issue requiring O2. Perhaps if I were landing at a high elevation airport at night I'd want O2 for vision enhancement but in the flatlands it seems my night vision (what exists with "normal" cockpit lighting and flashlight use) is up to par by the time I get near to landing and perfectly adequate without O2 when cruising along at 8000 MSL.

Do you prefer company flying at night?

Why? Do you want to ride along?

Depends on the company and length of flight. Good company is almost always welcome, most anyone is welcome at night but IME many fall asleep then mitigating most of the potential benefit.

If equipped, do you use your autopilot more during day or night?

Pretty much the same either time. I use mine a lot, especially in cruise, day or night.

Do you have a personal trick to find the airport?

Turn up the runway lights when you're near. This makes them jump right out at you and pretty much precludes mistaking a well lit roadway for a runway.

Any other thoughts, concerns, techniques you would like to share?

Since it's harder to locate things in the dark, cockpit organization is a bigger issue at night. Also while not exactly night specific, fatigue and circadian rhythms are more often a problem on a night flight and so should be given extra consideration when contemplating flying after dark. This is one case where supplemental O2 can be extra beneficial at night as people are generally far more susceptible to fatigue and sleepiness if they are slightly hypoxic. WRT your question about "company", there have been many times when I would have liked to "rest my eyes" for a time particularly while flying at night and if said "company" was capable of flying the airplane I would have refreshed myself that way.

 

[Skylane81E]

Since the overwhelming number of respondents here feel that night flying is no biggie, I might as well insert a counter point. First off, I'm sort of assuming the thread is mostly directed at pilots of singles. If I flew a twin, I would probably feel a little different.

I basically consider night flight to be on par with flying over the Sierras, over urban areas, or over large forests. Yes the airplane doesn't know the difference, but the engines in these things do quit and when they do, at night, your chances of survival dip well below that of day time.

Here's a fun game. Next time you're out flying at night, randomly pick spot in your cruise where you "lost your engine" and pick a spot that you would aim for landing. (We should all be doing this anyways on all flights.) Then go back to that place in the day and see how it might have turned out for you at night. The night covers a lot of obstacles that will kill you.

Will I fly at night? Yes if I have to. Do I prefer it? No way.

If I was afraid of an engine failure I wouldn't fly.

 

[GCA319]

Do you feel comfortable flying at night? Yes, but unless I'm familiar with the route, I prefer to either be IFR or VFR on published IFR routes at or above published altitudes.
What is different about per-flight, if anything? Lights and fuses if aplicable
How do you prepare yourself for pitch black engine out situation knowing that picking a landing spot that is actually suitable for emergency scenario would not be an easy task.? I accept the higher level of risk associated with night flight
Navigation - do you fly strictly by GPS and/or VOR? Depends.
Does flight following become a "must have" when flying at night? Not necessarily, but it is preferred.
Your personal preference on fuel reserves?Atleast 1 hour (same as day for me)
Do you find yourself being more engaged with your checklist flying at night? No
How do you handle altitude above 5000 without oxygen system? 5000 MSL is about 1300 underground where I'm based.
Do you climb higher? I'm generally a fan of altitude either night or day. Not much of a low level guy.
Do you prefer company flying at night? No
If equipped, do you use your autopilot more during day or night? No
Do you have a personal trick to find the airport? Shoot an approach if it's available. You won't hit anything and you'll find the runway.

 

[Dav8or]

If I was afraid of an engine failure I wouldn't fly.

There are bold pilots and there are old pilots...

Naaaaah! What could possibly go wrong?!

 

[Skylane81E]

There are bold pilots and there are old pilots...

Naaaaah! What could possibly go wrong?!

Don't feel night flying makes me particularly bold, looking at the response to the OPs question I know for certain it does not.

 

[N801BH]

If I was afraid of an engine failure I wouldn't fly.

When your time is up.................. it is up....

Why miss some great moments in life.

 

[bbchien]

There are some parts of the county wherein if you cruise at 12-14K, you are never outside of glidilng range of a runway. Of course, you have to flightplan the route appropriately. An Interstate can substitute. It's all pilot choices.

That being said, I chose the way Lance did.

 

[wabower]

These discussions have been ongoing for at least 40 years, probably longer. Interestingly, most pilots default to engine failure as the primary risk, when in fact all mechanically-related accidents are a very small percentage of the total.

As a result of one particular debate some time ago, Dick Collins decided to research the accident rate for his annual safety article in the magazine. He found that fatal accidents from engine failure at night during IFR flight were insufficient to even justify a sub-category. Ever since a retired airline pilot was killed when the engine on his cub failed after takeoff at my home airport, I've worried more about failures in densely-populated areas with "no place to land" than about those that might happen when established in cruise flight.

 

[azure]

Ever since a retired airline pilot was killed when the engine on his cub failed after takeoff at my home airport, I've worried more about failures in densely-populated areas with "no place to land" than about those that might happen when established in cruise flight.

There was a well-publicized engine out at night on takeoff from my home field a couple of years ago where the pilot managed to put down in a Walmart parking lot after the store had closed. Everyone agreed that he was both good and extremely lucky. There are very few options here if you lose your engine at night before you've reached cruising altitude.

 

[Dav8or]

Ever since a retired airline pilot was killed when the engine on his cub failed after takeoff at my home airport, I've worried more about failures in densely-populated areas with "no place to land" than about those that might happen when established in cruise flight.

See, that's the thing. When the subject of engine failure comes up with regards to night, or IMC, everyone seems to assume we're just talking about failure during cruise. What about a failure in the pattern, in your urban area at night? How much worse off would you be in darkness? Want to try the "impossible turn" at night? Just like the airplane can't tell night from day, it also won't schedule failure for only day VMC in cruise.

As a result of one particular debate some time ago, Dick Collins decided to research the accident rate for his annual safety article in the magazine. He found that fatal accidents from engine failure at night during IFR flight were insufficient to even justify a sub-category.

I'm sure this is true, but how much of that is due to the fact that not very many people fly at night, or in IMC? What if traffic at night was the same volume it is during the day? Wouldn't the numbers go way up? The point is, the frequency of engine failure is the same regardless of night or day, it's just that there aren't that many people flying at night.

 

[DaleB]

I just flew a night VFR X/C last night. I took my brother in law from KMLE to KOFK, about 45 minutes or so each way, for dinner at Barnstormer's.

This was actually my first night X/C without an instructor on board. I've flown at night since getting my ticket, but only pattern work to keep current. Last night we had almost no moonlight on the trip up -- there was a high overcast layer and it was pretty dark. On the way home there was almost a full moon. Visibility was probably 15-20 miles, which was less than I'd have liked, but even with the lack of a clear visual horizon I never had any doubt about which way was down.

Do you feel comfortable flying at night?
Yes, although I'm not going to be voluntarily practicing steep turns or stalls. Just my preference. My only real discomfort is when on the ground. Taxiing at an unfamiliar airport with a so-so landing/taxi light... well, we got from the runway to the restaurant OK, but I'm glad there wasn't a bunch of traffic. I could have studied the airport diagram in the AFD better, but it was kind of a last minute change of destination.

What is different about per-flight, if anything?
I need a flashlight. And it was bloody cold out there.

How do you prepare yourself for pitch black engine out situation knowing that picking a landing spot that is actually suitable for emergency scenario would not be an easy task.
Hope for the best. I'm usually flying over farm land, and I know where there are likely to be power lines. I also do tend to scan the engine instrumentation a little more often at night.

Navigation - do you fly strictly by GPS and/or VOR?
GPS, pretty much. As always, I do have a sectional handy and know where we are just in case. I know the direction we're headed -- not that you can read the compass or DG with the absolute crap panel lighting in the plane.

Does flight following become a "must have" when flying at night?
Nope. I usually don't use it during the day either.

Your personal preference on fuel reserves?
Same as daylight flying. So far my trips have been short enough that it's simply not an issue. I have fuel for well over 4 hours of flying, and I'm taking 2 hour trips.

Do you find yourself being more engaged with your checklist flying at night?
Not that I have noticed.

How do you handle altitude above 5000 without oxygen system? Do you climb higher?
I'm usually cruising between 3500 and 5500, as I mentioned so far it's relatively been short trips. No need for oxygen at that altitude.

Do you prefer company flying at night?
Yes. I also prefer company during the day.

Do you have a personal trick to find the airport?
I just look for the beacon. My biggest fear is not being able to find the bloody airport! I can usually spot the beacon 15-20 miles out though. At about 3-5 miles out I'll turn on the runway lights.

Oh - I just remembered something else I noticed last night. I tend to climb shallower than during the day. I'd rotate and start climbing out, and instead of climbing at 80 I'd keep the nose low enough to see the horizon. It was a shallower climb angle, hgher speed, but I found it less discomforting to have that visual reference even though I'm comfortable using the AI and other instruments. As terrain is not a factor, I noted and accepted it. On future flights I'll work on that for those situations where I might need to climb out more steeply.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

Not flying at night is for those loser sport pilots.

It helps to know the area, but if you are cross country you can't count on knowing every field or open spot - is it dark because it is a farm field. a stand of trees, or a swamp? Roads suck (based on my daytime experience) but at least you have some idea what to expect.

In a somewhat urban area, the airport tends to be that big dark airport shaped spot in the middle of all the other lights. Once you get close enough, then you can pick out runway lights.

Practice landing with and without landing lights.

I never had O2 avaiable, so I don't know how much it may help.

Some type of electronic navigation is handy - it's a lot harder to correlate what you see to the chart unless you are flying regularly at night. You can pick up cities from much further away if the visibility is good - that can be a help, or it can be confusing if you are not used to it.

 

[denverpilot]

Do you feel comfortable flying at night?

Yes.

What is different about per-flight, if anything?

Checking the lights work.

How do you prepare yourself for pitch black engine out situation knowing that picking a landing spot that is actually suitable for emergency scenario would not be an easy task.

Altitude and a little luck. A CFI friend has now had two night engine failures. Both end on runways.

Navigation - do you fly strictly by GPS and/or VOR?
Does flight following become a "must have" when flying at night?

Never use only one form of navigation when multiple are present.

Your personal preference on fuel reserves?

Aways try to land with an hour of fuel in the tanks, VFR.

Do you find yourself being more engaged with your checklist flying at night?

No, that would be a sign I wasn't paying enough attention to it during daylight.

How do you handle altitude above 5000 without oxygen system? Do you climb higher?

That happens taxiing out around here. Many people do find O2 makes them feel better and see better at night. I've never done it, but plan to try it. Can't really hurt.

Do you prefer company flying at night?

Doesn't matter. It's really smooth most nights, and a solitary flight is as nice as one with company. I'm a night owl, so putting the airplane away at midnight wouldn't bother me at all, but for most pax that's past their bedtime.

If equipped, do you use your autopilot more during day or night?

Not my autopilot... It's barely a wing leveler and does excellent s-turns about a course line.

Do you have a personal trick to find the airport?

Look.

Any other thoughts, concerns, techniques you would like to share?

Airplane doesn't know it's dark. Manage your "issues" with appropriate lighting, backup lighting, planning, and the airplane will generally do what it does during the day and take care of itself. Moonless nights can be Instrument conditions even without weather in low population density areas of the country. Think about what airports you're going to and what your plan is if the pre-flight to come home finds something wrong with the airplane. Some airports are completely deserted at night.

 

[PilotAlan]

A couple of comments:

1 - People are talking about whether to avoid the "black area" for a forced landing.
Know the area. In Florida, anything not lit is either trees or water. Avoid them.
Out in the plains, the black area is farm fields, and probably a very good place to aim for.

In FL, I am aiming at parking lots or roads and take my chances with poles. In the plains I am aiming at the dark area next to the road.

2 - Flying XC at night is, to me, like driving while it's snowing. I don't go driving in the snow for grins, but if I need to go somewhere, then I go. There's more risk, is there a reason to accept it?
Same for flying at night. It's risk/reward.

3 - I'm VFR. Only XC at night it's CAVU with some moonlight. If I can[t see the stars and moon, then I can't tell if there's unforecast clouds.
Also, the landing light stays on all the time. It has let me see wisps when unforecast clouds were trying to form, causing a diversion and RON.

4 - Follow major highways, there are towns and airports every so often, lots of ground lights, hard to get lost or disoriented. Even with a total electrical failure, I can find the airport and land.

 

[Wingsofglass]

At least out here in the Rockies, I treat every night flight as IMC because even on a clear, full moon night you can't always find a reliable horizon.

Would you rather have a second piston engine or a chute on a night flight? Notice how I didn't say a Cirrus. I don't want to open up a discussion on post crash fires or the joys of flying plastic. But if you think about the types of emergencies a second engine ameliorates and the types of emergencies a BRS would change from fatal to insurance claim, which would you rather have at night?

 

[Dav8or]

At least out here in the Rockies, I treat every night flight as IMC because even on a clear, full moon night you can't always find a reliable horizon.

Would you rather have a second piston engine or a chute on a night flight? Notice how I didn't say a Cirrus. I don't want to open up a discussion on post crash fires or the joys of flying plastic. But if you think about the types of emergencies a second engine ameliorates and the types of emergencies a BRS would change from fatal to insurance claim, which would you rather have at night?

Kind of depends on the terrain. If it's night across the Rockies I'd go for the BRS I think, but otherwise from a pilot's prospective, I'd rather have the twin. From an owner's perspective that has to pay the bills, I'd rather have the BRS.

 

[James_Dean]

I generally don't fly with my family at night anymore in a single. About six years ago I was in my Saratoga flying from Nashville, TN to northwest Iowa. I had my wife and three children ages 4, 2 and infant. Large convective system was moving through central Iowa. I had plenty of fuel and had been talking to flight watch and center and had a good idea that my planned route was safe. About an hour after dark we had just crossed into Iowa and I was directly over the town where my grandmother lived. I was seeing lightening out in front of me and was about to divert west according to the plan I had worked out. I made a snap decision to land - use the potty, see grandma, and get a look at a computer terminal just to make certain my plan was good.

Parked the plane on the ramp and hopped out. To my horror the side of the aircraft was covered in oil. An oil cooler had burst and I was down to four quarts in the sump. Not sure how much longer it would have been until I had indications in the cockpit, or a fire, or a dead stick - but it wasn't far. Best case I was looking at a precautionary landing at an unfamiliar field that wasn't on my planned route due to my weather diversion. Worst case........

To this day, this event is the closest thing to a sign I've ever had that there is a deity and I'm not on his crap list yet. It has impacted my flying tremendously.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

1 - People are talking about whether to avoid the "black area" for a forced landing.
Know the area. In Florida, anything not lit is either trees or water. Avoid them.

Not true - Plenty of sugar cane fields in the non-coastal parts of Florida that make good landing spots.

Out in the plains, the black area is farm fields, and probably a very good place to aim for.

'cept for the parts that are trees.

Would you rather have a second piston engine or a chute on a night flight?

Second engine. It'll at least give me a chance to get to an airport. Chute is going to put me down in whatever's underneath me... And it's gonna hurt. And I'm probably still gonna be in the wilderness, somewhat exposed to the elements and relying on S&R to get to me in time, and probably injured.

BRS is great for mid-air collision, pilot incapacitation, or control failure, all of which are exceedingly rare. The majority of accidents are due to pilots running out of gas, flying into crappy weather, loss of situational awareness or loss of control. These are things that I have a great degree of control over regardless of whether I have a second engine or BRS. I would guess, however, that mechanical problems in the engine are probably more common than any of the three listed in the first sentence of this paragraph, and for that I'd much rather have the spare engine.

Kind of depends on the terrain. If it's night across the Rockies I'd go for the BRS I think, but otherwise from a pilot's prospective, I'd rather have the twin. From an owner's perspective that has to pay the bills, I'd rather have the BRS.

I dunno, I'd bet that the cost of the mandatory re-pack of the BRS chute would pay for the second engine...

 

[dell30rb]

I dunno, I'd bet that the cost of the mandatory re-pack of the BRS chute would pay for the second engine...

For what it's worth, I think they have the re-pack down to about 8 grand now. Even at 10 grand it does not come close to the cost of an overhaul + extra fuel burned over 10 years.

However if you consider initial purchase price, and the current twin market vs the SR22 market..

 

[peppy]

I dunno, I'd bet that the cost of the mandatory re-pack of the BRS chute would pay for the second engine...

Probably depends on how much you fly. Repack on G2 or newer is now well south of $10K. A second engine flown 200 hours per year will be at TBO about the same timeframe.

 

[Skylane81E]

Second engine can be run for so long as it will let you...

BRS will be done every ten years regardless of usage.

Remaining proficient in the use of the BRS is cheaper than in a twin too if all you want to consider is cost.