How do you bring flaps up in a go around procedure?

WannFly

WannFly

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I have done both, trying to understand if there is a best practice? So do you guys bring the flaps up 10 degrees at a time? Or full up at once? Any benefits of doing one way or another?
172 with 30 degree flaps is what I am training in

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I am not fluent in the 172, what does the POH say?
 
Never bring them all up at once. In the 172, bring them to 10deg, wait until a positive rate of climb is achieved and altitude is building and then raise the the 10deg to zero.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I trained in the 172.
Full power (carb heat off if it is on)
Once you start to climb, take out 10*
Gradually bring them up.

I believe if you take the flaps out all at once, you will get to post in the lessons learned section.
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You got it. Takes away the wings' lift if they're raised all at once.
 
Did it by mistake in an early lesson.. airplane drops like a rock, you are trading altitude for the speed required at that flap setting. Would be interesting to do at altitude and 65 knots, 30 deg to 0 and note the alt loss.
 
Cessna calls for FLAPS 20 on rejected landing right after you cram the knobs to the wall.

What you don't want to do is put full power in and leave full flaps out. You'll be riding a unicycle...
 
flyingron said:
Cessna calls for FLAPS 20 on rejected landing right after you cram the knobs to the wall.

What you don't want to do is put full power in and leave full flaps out. You'll be riding a unicycle...
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That sounds about right, and a increase in pitch when you decrease flaps might be required.
 
I learned, and have always taught, that for a go around:
1. Full Power, Pitch up
2. Flaps come immediately to 20 degrees
3. At or above 60 knots flaps 10.
4. At or above 65 knots flaps up, as you accelerate to Vy/Vx as appropriate.

Edit: This is what I teach in a Cessna 172 R and S model.
 
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WannFly said:
I have done both, trying to understand if there is a best practice? So do you guys bring the flaps up 10 degrees at a time? Or full up at once? Any benefits of doing one way or another?
172 with 30 degree flaps is what I am training in
Click to expand...

Are you a student pilot? The procedure is in the POH. That is what you should be doing. You'll get 15 different answers/techniques asking here. Your CFI should have gone over this with you. Do you have a copy of the POH? You can DL a copy free on the internet.

Oh, did I mention the POH?
 
Yes a student pilot, did one go around with flaps to 20 and then to 10, the other one all 30, with full power, the nose did drop quite a bit. I will dig through the POH

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I was taught to do TNG's with 20deg, then when you do the go part, simultaneously push in the throttle with your hand and push in the carb heat with your thumb, then climb out and once you have some altitude and cleared the obstacles, flaps all the way to 0.

I think it's nuts to do a touch in go with 40 deg of flaps, especially at the 2999' rwy I practice at.:eek:
 
Whatever the POH says. You're going to want to bring the flaps up incrementally.
 
jordane93 said:
Whatever the POH says. You're going to want to bring the flaps up incrementally.
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Most people don't know what that really means. I've watched people work the 172 flap switch in a way that wouldn't make any difference if they'd have just moved it to zero immediately.

Things move slow enough in the Navion that I just bring the handle all the way up (in fact, it's a mod to have it stop in a position other than full up or full down anyhow).
 
My Cessna T182T has four flap settings: UP - 10 deg - 20 deg - 30 deg.

For a balked landing, the POH has me to reduce flaps to 20 deg immediately after applying full power and climb at 55 KIAS. After clearing any obstacles, I'm to carefully retract the flaps and allow the plane to accelerate to the normal climb speed.
 
midcap said:
I was taught to do TNG's with 20deg, then when you do the go part, simultaneously push in the throttle with your hand and push in the carb heat with your thumb, then climb out and once you have some altitude and cleared the obstacles, flaps all the way to 0.

I think it's nuts to do a touch in go with 40 deg of flaps, especially at the 2999' rwy I practice at.:eek:
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Seriously? The shorter the runway the more reasons to be using 40 degrees.

I teach 40 degrees (or whatever maximum flaps are for the airplane), all the time, regardless of the winds, touch and go, or full stop.

The only reason my students would use less than 40 degrees would be to show them why the hell they should be using 40 and to know how the airplane will handle if they had equipment failures.

The majority of flight instructors would most definitely not agree with what your instructor taught you.

2999 ft is by no means short for a 172...not even close...like double what you'd need in most cases.
 
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avongil said:
Did it by mistake in an early lesson.. airplane drops like a rock, you are trading altitude for the speed required at that flap setting. Would be interesting to do at altitude and 65 knots, 30 deg to 0 and note the alt loss.
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If you pitch up as they retract, at 65 knots there won't be any altitude lost. Slower speeds, yes. But not up at 65 if you get aggressive with the pitch. Same in the 182, but unless you've got more upper body strength than most, you'd better also reach for the trim.
 
midcap said:
I was taught to do TNG's with 20deg, then when you do the go part, simultaneously push in the throttle with your hand and push in the carb heat with your thumb, then climb out and once you have some altitude and cleared the obstacles, flaps all the way to 0.

I think it's nuts to do a touch in go with 40 deg of flaps, especially at the 2999' rwy I practice at.:eek:
Click to expand...

I have to agree with Jesse here. T&G with 40 means you're landing slower and there's no reason to land fast on 3000' of runway.

What you MUST do in Cessnas when doing T&G is look OUT the window and make sure the silly things are moving up before committing the power for the takeoff. The microswitches simply aren't to be trusted.

BTDT got the t-shirt -- took off with them stuck at 40 in the 182. Landed again about 300' beyond the lift off point and told the controller I had a problem and would need to taxi off.

Checked them a bunch of times in daylight after that fun at night and they never stuck again in over 250 hours and three different pilots since that flight.

Always look in a Cessna. The day you don't is when the stupid microswitch contraption will try to bite you in the ass. Flap switch, automatically look over your shoulder or out to the right, whichever, but make it automatic and done every time.

But landing with 40 is fine.
 
I did it by mistake early on also, never again. We dropped enough to scare me. Luckily we had enough altitude and my cfi let me hear about very forcefully.
 
I have never heard a CFI say all at once, and you would lose massive amounts of lift depending on airspeed. But irregardless of that.. just consult the POH..
 
Understanding what flaps do helps a lot as well. This should go under the other thread about good things CFIs have said to you, and this is what my primary guy told me:

"Flaps add both lift and drag. Small amounts of flaps add more lift than drag, large amount of flaps add more drag than lift"

And that nugget right there tells you what you need to do no matter the aircraft you might be flying[1]. Go around, get rid of the draggy parts of flaps while maintaining the lift portion.

[1] Yes, yes, I'm not advocating NOT reading the POH, but understanding HOW flaps works goes a long way towards understanding what the POH is telling you to do. Or maybe even help you out should you be flying an unfamiliar aircraft.
 
midcap said:
I was taught to do TNG's with 20deg, then when you do the go part, simultaneously push in the throttle with your hand and push in the carb heat with your thumb, then climb out and once you have some altitude and cleared the obstacles, flaps all the way to 0.

I think it's nuts to do a touch in go with 40 deg of flaps, especially at the 2999' rwy I practice at.:eek:
Click to expand...

Yea.. I'll have to second what Jesse said here... 3000' of runway for a Skyhawk is P L E N T Y- L O N G... Sounds like you are taking off with 20 degrees of flaps on the Go part... Show me anywhere in the POH where that is recommended....
 
flyingron said:
Cessna calls for FLAPS 20 on rejected landing right after you cram the knobs to the wall.

What you don't want to do is put full power in and leave full flaps out. You'll be riding a unicycle...
Click to expand...
Thank you. Someone actually read the POH before flying.

The "balked landing" checklist says flaps 20 immediately, 55 KIAS, 10 deg, 60 KIAS/obstacles cleared, clean. Speeds are 5 knots faster for "restarts."
 
oilburner said:
My Cessna T182T has four flap settings: UP - 10 deg - 20 deg - 30 deg.

For a balked landing, the POH has me to reduce flaps to 20 deg immediately after applying full power and climb at 55 KIAS. After clearing any obstacles, I'm to carefully retract the flaps and allow the plane to accelerate to the normal climb speed.
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The interesting thing is that flap retraction on that model is so astonishingly slow, that you'll easily get those airspeeds if you just flip the paddle all the way up. Not so on a 172. But do what the POH says for that one time you try it at 12000 DA.
 
FlySince9 said:
Yea.. I'll have to second what Jesse said here... 3000' of runway for a Skyhawk is P L E N T Y- L O N G... Sounds like you are taking off with 20 degrees of flaps on the Go part... Show me anywhere in the POH where that is recommended....
Click to expand...

I never said it's in the POH but that's how I am being taught.
 
jesse said:
Seriously? The shorter the runway the more reasons to be using 40 degrees.

I teach 40 degrees (or whatever maximum flaps are for the airplane), all the time, regardless of the winds, touch and go, or full stop.

The only reason my students would use less than 40 degrees would be to show them why the hell they should be using 40 and to know how the airplane will handle if they had equipment failures.

The majority of flight instructors would most definitely not agree with what your instructor taught you.

2999 ft is by no means short for a 172...not even close...like double what you'd need in most cases.
Click to expand...

I'v used 40deg for full stops before.

I just don't feel comfortable doing 40 for a touch n go on the exact 2999 runway.
 
oilburner said:
My Cessna T182T has four flap settings: UP - 10 deg - 20 deg - 30 deg.

For a balked landing, the POH has me to reduce flaps to 20 deg immediately after applying full power and climb at 55 KIAS. After clearing any obstacles, I'm to carefully retract the flaps and allow the plane to accelerate to the normal climb speed.
Click to expand...

Here ya go! Someone doing the procedure from the POH. :thumbsup:
 
One reason I love Johnson bar flaps.

Just hold the button in and gradually ease the flaps from full to up.
 
Bill Jennings said:
Understanding what flaps do helps a lot as well. This should go under the other thread about good things CFIs have said to you, and this is what my primary guy told me:

"Flaps add both lift and drag. Small amounts of flaps add more lift than drag, large amount of flaps add more drag than lift"

And that nugget right there tells you what you need to do no matter the aircraft you might be flying[1]. Go around, get rid of the draggy parts of flaps while maintaining the lift portion.

[1] Yes, yes, I'm not advocating NOT reading the POH, but understanding HOW flaps works goes a long way towards understanding what the POH is telling you to do. Or maybe even help you out should you be flying an unfamiliar aircraft.
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:yeahthat:

That is what I was taught and what I have frequently read.
 
FlySince9 said:
Doesn't make it right...
Instructors are not beyond reproach...
He should be teaching you as per the POH...
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Yup, agree. Midcap & wannafly, do yourselves a favor and find out what model C172 you're training in (C172P for example) and either buy or DL a copy from th internet. Then ask your CFI why he isn't teaching the proper procedure. If you tell us the model 172 you're flying, I'll find a link for you.
 
midcap said:
I never said it's in the POH but that's how I am being taught.
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A touch and go doesn't mean you land and then take off in the same configuration that you landed... ie; with 20 degrees of flaps. You make a normal landing, then while in the rollout, you reconfigure the aircraft for takeoff, then add full throttle and do the Go part. you can go all the way to flaps 0 or leave it at 10 for short field operations, but the airplane should be configured as if it were a normal takeoff by the time you hit the gas...
 
FlySince9 said:
A touch and go doesn't mean you land and then take off in the same configuration that you landed... ie; with 20 degrees of flaps. You make a normal landing, then while in the rollout, you reconfigure the aircraft for takeoff, then add full throttle and do the Go part. you can go all the way to flaps 0 or leave it at 10 for short field operations, but the airplane should be configured as if it were a normal takeoff by the time you hit the gas...
Click to expand...

that makes sense then as to why we take off with 15-20 deg of flaps then.
 
The OP's question related to go-arounds, but I have a dumb question since the conversation has wandered into touch-and-gos.

The Cessna 172 POHs consistently include a procedure for a "balked landing" (aka a go-around before touching down), but unless I'm missing it, they don't seem to have a section that is specific to a touch-and-go. How come? Or should you just regard a touch-and-go as a "normal landing," hastily getting cleaned up on the roll, followed by a "normal takeoff?"
 
register@teamandras.com said:
they don't seem to have a section that is specific to a touch-and-go. How come? Or should you just regard a touch-and-go as a "normal landing," hastily getting cleaned up on the roll, followed by a "normal takeoff?"
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Pretty much covers it. But, if you're unsure about doing it this way, then a stop-n-go is the answer.
 
midcap said:
that makes sense then as to why we take off with 15-20 deg of flaps then.
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midcap are you saying your instructor teaches you to take off w/ 20* of flaps? And the flap settings are typically 10*, 20*, and 30* in newer C172s, so I don't know where you're getting 15* from.
 
WannFly said:
I have done both, trying to understand if there is a best practice? So do you guys bring the flaps up 10 degrees at a time? Or full up at once? Any benefits of doing one way or another?
172 with 30 degree flaps is what I am training in

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
flying the LSA Cessna Skycatcher I can land with either 2 or 3 notches of flaps (25 and 40-deg respectively) depending on circumstances. I do most normal landings with 2-notches. on a go-round with 2-notches of flaps I go full power/carb heat off, level the wings and accelerate. I lose the second notch and start my climb after I'm assured of acceleration and go clean at Vx or Vy. on a 3-notches of flap landing I dump the third notch (40-deg) almost immediately at leveling the wings. that would be full power/carb heat off (virtually simultaneously), level the wings and dump the third notch. dumping the second and first notch too fast/too soon could end up ruining your whole day.
 
register@teamandras.com said:
The OP's question related to go-arounds, but I have a dumb question since the conversation has wandered into touch-and-gos.

The Cessna 172 POHs consistently include a procedure for a "balked landing" (aka a go-around before touching down), but unless I'm missing it, they don't seem to have a section that is specific to a touch-and-go. How come? Or should you just regard a touch-and-go as a "normal landing," hastily getting cleaned up on the roll, followed by a "normal takeoff?"
Click to expand...

You've brought to light an important fact. POHs do not always have published procedures for every maneuver. Who decided how to perform a soft field takeoff? In many Cessna POHs, theres no published procedure for a soft field takeoff. Section 4 alludes to departures from soft or rough fields, but never directly lays out a procedure for it. So then, how do we perform them? With flaps, or without? Why? Who says?

Saying that you should just do that the POH says, is, in my opinion, a limited and incomplete suggestion. There are cases where a pilot should use best judgement in operating small airplanes- flap retraction schedules is one of those cases thats up for debate.
 
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