How do you bring flaps up in a go around procedure?

midcap said:
I think it's nuts to do a touch in go with 40 deg of flaps, especially at the 2999' rwy I practice at.:eek:
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midcap said:
that makes sense then as to why we take off with 15-20 deg of flaps then.
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Sounds like you've got your facts very crossed up.

-Nuts to land with full flaps on a short runway and
you take off with 15-20deg of flaps?? What's your CFI teaching you?
 
midcap said:
I'v used 40deg for full stops before.

I just don't feel comfortable doing 40 for a touch n go on the exact 2999 runway.
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My home drome is a 3,000' runway. I've flown a 172M which had the 40deg flap option, but I hardly ever used it. 30deg is plenty if your approach is correct.

Flaps are used to provide a steeper descent angle without gaining additional airspeed. I suggest you try an approach and landing with 10deg of flaps and then one with 40deg. I guarantee you'll see why using more flaps is necessary when landing on a 'small' runway.
 
Ryanb said:
Sounds like you've got your facts very crossed up.

-Nuts to land with full flaps on a short runway and
you take off with 15-20deg of flaps?? What's your CFI teaching you?
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yep, we often take off with 15-20...not sure why. But it seems to work just fine.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
mine does fine with 20 degrees of flaps.....:stirpot:
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Until it doesn't. Then you get an NTSB report that says the pilot lost control attempting to take off in an unapproved configuration.

It will behave differently in a sea level, cold, calm location than it will at high density altitude in gusty winds.
 
Bill Jennings said:
Understanding what flaps do helps a lot as well. This should go under the other thread about good things CFIs have said to you, and this is what my primary guy told me:

"Flaps add both lift and drag. Small amounts of flaps add more lift than drag, large amount of flaps add more drag than lift"
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Understanding what flaps you have is also equally crucial.
Different style flaps affect the airfoil and aircraft handling differently. Especially Fowler flaps.

So student pilots should know not only what flaps are for but also understand how their extension and retraction will affect the aircraft handling.

Understanding is often undervalued. :(
 
Depends a lot on the aircraft. A typical Cessna has very effective flaps, and you'll see a huge decrease in lift initially when bringing the flaps up quickly. In the Comanche, the flaps have much less apparent effect, and at the speed the motor raises them it is a non issue to go full up.
 
midcap said:
yep, we often take off with 15-20...not sure why. But it seems to work just fine.
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Hi midcap. I'm confused by the 15 in the reference to 15-20 degrees of flaps, but I'm pretty inexperienced. What model Cessna 172 do you train in?

I variably rent a 172P, a 172P/180, a 172R and a 172S, and the discrete flap positions available to me are

10-20-30-40 for the 172P
10-20-30 for the other three

In my case, the POHs consistently say no flaps for normal takeoff and 10 degrees of flaps for a short field takeoff. In chapter 4, the POHs for the R and S models include the phrase cited above, i.e. "Flap deflections greater than 10° are not approved for takeoff."
 
MAKG1 said:
Until it doesn't. Then you get an NTSB report that says the pilot lost control attempting to take off in an unapproved configuration.

It will behave differently in a sea level, cold, calm location than it will at high density altitude in gusty winds.
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so maybe my POH is wrong.....you saying that? :eek:
 
midcap said:
yep, we often take off with 15-20...not sure why. But it seems to work just fine.
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I seriously question the judgement and teaching of your CFI. Short field takeoffs only state to use 10deg in a 172. If you're just doing something because your CFI says to do it and you don't know why, that's a serious red flag.
 
midwestpa24 said:
Depends a lot on the aircraft. A typical Cessna has very effective flaps, and you'll see a huge decrease in lift initially when bringing the flaps up quickly. In the Comanche, the flaps have much less apparent effect, and at the speed the motor raises them it is a non issue to go full up.
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That's because the Cessna's have those good ole' fowler flaps...lots and lots of drag. ;)
 
denverpilot said:
I have to agree with Jesse here. T&G with 40 means you're landing slower and there's no reason to land fast on 3000' of runway.

What you MUST do in Cessnas when doing T&G is look OUT the window and make sure the silly things are moving up before committing the power for the takeoff. The microswitches simply aren't to be trusted.

BTDT got the t-shirt -- took off with them stuck at 40 in the 182. Landed again about 300' beyond the lift off point and told the controller I had a problem and would need to taxi off.

Checked them a bunch of times in daylight after that fun at night and they never stuck again in over 250 hours and three different pilots since that flight.

Always look in a Cessna. The day you don't is when the stupid microswitch contraption will try to bite you in the ass. Flap switch, automatically look over your shoulder or out to the right, whichever, but make it automatic and done every time.

But landing with 40 is fine.
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Yea, remember CPO that posted here a couple years ago, he posted his first solo video and i think on his 2nd or 3rd circuit, his flaps didn't retract and he had to end the solo.(good thing he looked)
 
Ryanb said:
I seriously question the judgement and teaching of your CFI. Short field takeoffs only state to use 10deg in a 172. If you're just doing something because your CFI says to do it and you don't know why, that's a serious red flag.
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We practiced that already and I remember having 10deg in.....we don't do it every time.

Now on practicing touch in gos, it's always 20deg in, touch down, full power/carb hear off, gain alt clear obstacles then flaps all the way in, climb to 700 then start turning.
 
midcap said:
yep, we often take off with 15-20...not sure why. But it seems to work just fine.
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What are you flying? Everyone is assuming a 172, so is it? Do any 172s have a 15deg. notch?
 
exncsurfer said:
What are you flying? Everyone is assuming a 172, so is it?
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Yes 172M....now taking off from a complete stop we may have done 15-20 a few times, maybe I am not remember the degree of flap correctly, it may have not been more than 10 deg.

As far as TNGs, it's always 20deg.

I don't want people to think we always have flaps out on taking off from a stop.
 
I got used to dumping flaps on landing. Takeoff it was one notch at a time after 200 AGL.

True story though, I was doing T&G's in a skycatcher and on the go I forgot about the flaps. Wondered why I was airborne at like 50 knots. If I had dumped them at that point, I'd be in major trouble. Just got some altitude, shallowed my climb and slowly eased them out.
 
exncsurfer said:
What are you flying? Everyone is assuming a 172, so is it? Do any 172s have a 15deg. notch?
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on this 172M, it's just a toggle switch and a degree indicator, that shows 10, 15 etc. Then it has a detent where you can hit the swtich all the way up and the flaps retract to 0


similar to this

image001.jpg
 
midcap said:
on this 172M, it's just a toggle switch and a degree indicator, that shows 10, 15 etc. Then it has a detent where you can hit the swtich all the way up and the flaps retract to 0
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You still flying dual? You might want to double check that procedure with him(or another CFI), maybe he told you to take them out and you just left that step out of your flow? I haven't seen a 172M POH but the R and S has a 10deg. limit for takeoffs, a T&G is a takeoff.
 
exncsurfer said:
I haven't seen a 172M POH but the R and S has a 10deg. limit for takeoffs, a T&G is a takeoff.
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It's a 10deg limit for the 172. Maybe I'm interpreting his situation different than he's meaning, but his grammar doesn't help matters.
 
exncsurfer said:
You still flying dual? You might want to double check that procedure with him(or another CFI), maybe he told you to take them out and you just left that step out of your flow? I haven't seen a 172M POH but the R and S has a 10deg. limit for takeoffs, a T&G is a takeoff.
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I just looked into the POH for the 172M.....on a balked landing it says to reduce flaps to 20deg. If obstacles are to be cleared,(at the airport I do TNGs they are there) keep flaps in the 10-20deg range to clear obstacle and climb at 65-75 mph until obstacles are cleared.

So...according to the POH, if I am configured for landing with 20deg, there is no reason to reduce flaps to so the go around.
 
Ryanb said:
It's a 10deg limit for the 172. Maybe I'm interpreting his situation different than he's meaning, but his grammar doesn't help matters.
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My grammar is horrible. Sorry.

As I said above, I may not be 100% correct about the flap setting when initially taking off. We may never have put in more than 10 degrees of flap on initial take off from the home airport.


Now...when visiting another air port to do TNGs, when turning on base, flaps go to 20 deg and stay there until I clear all obstacles and then they go to 0 while climbing upwind.
 
midcap said:
So...according to the POH, if I am configured for landing with 20deg, there is no reason to reduce flaps to so the go around.
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A touch and go is not a go around. They are 100% different.
 
midcap said:
I just looked into the POH for the 172M.....on a balked landing it says to reduce flaps to 20deg. If obstacles are to be cleared,(at the airport I do TNGs they are there) keep flaps in the 10-20deg range to clear obstacle and climb at 65-75 mph until obstacles are cleared.

So...according to the POH, if I am configured for landing with 20deg, there is no reason to reduce flaps to so the go around.
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Right, but we were discussing two different things, T&G shouldn't be the same procedure as a go around. Once you touch, you've landed, and should be using a takeoff procedure at that point, 10deg. for short takeoff, 0deg. otherwise, no?

There is a 'balked landing' procedure, that is the go around(where you never land, you just keep flying). T&G is just landing followed by a (reconfigure, then)takeoff.
 
exncsurfer said:
Right, but we were discussing two different things, T&G shouldn't be the same procedure as a go around. Once you touch, you've landed, and should be using a takeoff procedure at that point, 10deg. for short takeoff, 0deg. otherwise, no?

There is a 'balked landing' procedure, that is the go around(where you never land, you just keep flying). T&G is just landing followed by a (reconfigure, then)takeoff.
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I understand that. The issues is that while 2999 is plenty runway to do that with a 172, the airport where we do the TNGs has some serious obstacles to clear especially if I float the plane.

I.E.

Obstructions: 72 ft. trees, 425 ft. from runway, 3:1 slope to clear

45 ft. trees, 708 ft. from runway, 53 ft. left of centerline, 11:1 slope to clear
APCH RATIO 14:1 TO DSPLCD THLD.
 
midcap said:
My grammar is horrible. Sorry.

As I said above, I may not be 100% correct about the flap setting when initially taking off. We may never have put in more than 10 degrees of flap on initial take off from the home airport.


Now...when visiting another air port to do TNGs, when turning on base, flaps go to 20 deg and stay there until I clear all obstacles and then they go to 0 while climbing upwind.
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No worries.
I've gotten the impression that your CFI instructs you to take off with 15-20deg. You're confusing a touch n' go with a go around so it's hard to keep up.
 
midcap said:
My grammar is horrible. Sorry.

As I said above, I may not be 100% correct about the flap setting when initially taking off. We may never have put in more than 10 degrees of flap on initial take off from the home airport.


Now...when visiting another air port to do TNGs, when turning on base, flaps go to 20 deg and stay there until I clear all obstacles and then they go to 0 while climbing upwind.
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OK, well, sounds like you're just confusing us, and may be doing it the way we're explaining. So, in this post you're saying you retract to 0(before takeoff?) for climb out after a touch and go.
 
Ryanb said:
No worries.
I've gotten the impression that your CFI instructs you to take off with 15-20deg. You're confusing a touch n' go with a go around so it's hard to keep up.
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I'm sorry guys...I speak English much better than I write in English.:eek:
 
I have a Cherokee 180 and go (1) Power; (2) Take out one notch; (3) climb until sufficient rate and speed; (4) Incrementally take out the rest.

Really the same thing as a power-off stall recovery. ***All assuming I have all 3 notches of flaps, which I generally would have.
 
midcap said:
I understand that. The issues is that while 2999 is plenty runway to do that with a 172, the airport where we do the TNGs has some serious obstacles to clear especially if I float the plane.

I.E.

Obstructions: 72 ft. trees, 425 ft. from runway, 3:1 slope to clear

45 ft. trees, 708 ft. from runway, 53 ft. left of centerline, 11:1 slope to clear
APCH RATIO 14:1 TO DSPLCD THLD.
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But, according to the POH, isn't best climb(short field takeoff procedure) with 10deg. flaps? So at 20deg., you're not climbing as well as you would at 10?
 
exncsurfer said:
OK, well, sounds like you're just confusing us, and may be doing it the way we're explaining. So, in this post you're saying you retract to 0(before takeoff?) for climb out after a touch and go.
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Let me see if that makes more sense....

I am in the air flying at 1200 feet AGL en route to the airport with the 2999ft runway, I enter the pattern on the downwind leg at about midfield carb heat is applied.
I then start my downwind to base turn and I add 20deg of flaps. I then do my base to final and line myself up.
I then float too much in ground effect and I land the plane (tires are now holding the plane up and not lift from the wings)
I then go full throttle while I push in the carb heat lever, removing carb heat. (I leave flaps at 20deg)
I then climb at Vy (70kts) until I clear the obstacles.
Once obstacles are cleared, I take flaps all the way out and continue my climb to 700agl.
At 700agl, I then turn downwind and continue to climb to 1000ft agl.

then I start the process all over again.
 
exncsurfer said:
But, according to the POH, isn't best climb(short field takeoff procedure) with 10deg. flaps? So at 20deg., you're not climbing as well as you would at 10?
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The POH says when going around 10-20 is fine and to hold the airspeed at 70kts.

I know this much, when I clean up the plane from 20 degrees to 0, that thing takes a little bit to get back flying. Well at least it seems that way.
 
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