How and where to shop for servers

[Let'sgoflying!]

I have completely struck out on googling for help on this tonight.

Where is the best place to learn about buying and seeing a selection for a very small business?

Here is my updated functionality needs list:

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I have a small (4500sqft) office with 5 people and 3 parttimers.
I want a central location for file storage.
Three people will need access to about 5 computers from time to time in the office - not heavy or constant use - and I will need to access the computers from home or on the road, weekly.
We are not in a growth phase and hope not to expand in future. We have two networked PCs right now (home networking) and that is working ok. No server.
I want to replace our computers with 3 desktops and possible later, two laptops. We will need 4 laser printers, which any of the computers can access.
Our main program currently is Quickbooks Pro, a multi-user version. We use it constantly all day and rely on it for all financial parts of the business from client billing, payroll, vendor payments, taxes and several people need simultaneous access - plus it needs an absolutely reliable backup.
I will be using an online timeclock for the employees.
I want to be able to have our Word and Excel (actually, OpenOffice) etc files all stored in one place where any of the computers can access the files. I need separate log-ins for each employee so I can control which files they can access. I need to be able to access these files remotely too. I want it to be RAID 5, with hot-swappable disks.
HDD is ok, no need for SSD
I have Uverse with AT&T (5.0down, 0.5up) I will run CAT VI cable. I have less than 20 gB of data right now and that might double or quadruple at the worst. Will need security features ie Firewall, internet antivirus etc.
Fax line inputs where any computer can access incoming faxes.
Capability to add a security camera system later.

Planning on Windows Server 2012, I think Foundation version will work.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

So far I have completely struck out on finding local IT help. The only three people with any server knowledge have either failed to respond or declined to help. Hopefully that will resolve...or I will learn how to set it up and purchase some remote assistance.

 

[ytodd]

What about a hosted QB solution and Onedrive/O365 or Google Apps?

 

[SCCutler]

What about a hosted QB solution and Onedrive/O365 or Google Apps?

Hosted QB lacks features the installed version has.

In addition, there is no redundant Internet connection available at the OP's location, and the Internet connection is subject to relatively frequent outages.

 

[JOhnH]

I found that having a good relationship with a reliable, local computer company has saved me untold headaches. I get better equipment and service than if I shop the big box stores, or the online stores. When I have a problem, he rewards my loyalty to him by moving me up the priority list for service. The cost is only slightly more than if I price shop around but the advantages far outweigh the cost. His network guy has really been a blessing.

Of course, this is my local guy. I don't know what is available in your area, but it would be worth investigating for some good recommendations.

 

[mulligan]

You do not need a server. A server is very cheap. The server software is where they get you by making you by cals.

I recommend all you need is a NAS which can be bought at Best Buy and all of your associates can map drives to that. In fact, buy two. One for production and one for backup of the production.

For remote access to your PCs use teamviewer.com. Free and awesome.

I have 35 associates and that is our setup and it works incredible. We did by nice switches and wireless routers from http://www.engeniustech.com

 

[ytodd]

Hosted QB lacks features the installed version has.

In addition, there is no redundant Internet connection available at the OP's location, and the Internet connection is subject to relatively frequent outages.

What features?

No mention of internet challenges in the OP's post....

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

What about a hosted QB solution and Onedrive/O365 or Google Apps?

Thanks ytodd, we discussed this in another thread of mine and I have considered it carefully. I have less than ideal internet reliability here and I have talked to people who have used QB online and I have dismissed it based on their description. Going to keep it in house.

I found that having a good relationship with a reliable, local computer company

Thank you John. I think our posts crossed where I described the lack of local IT availability: That was one of my first steps but I am outta luck it seems:
xxxx

"So far I have completely struck out on finding local IT help."

xxxx

You do not need a server.
snip
I recommend all you need is a NAS

Thank you for commenting, mulligan. The decision has been made to do it all on a server. I am asking how to buy a server. Synology has verified that an NAS cannot do what I want (the sell NASs).

 

[ytodd]

Thanks ytodd, we discussed this in another thread of mine and I have considered it carefully. I have less than ideal internet reliability here and I have talked to people who have used QB online and I have dismissed it based on their description. Going to keep it in house.

Sorry about the crappy internet...

Slight comment about QB online. There is a difference in the QB online and "hosted" QB. I was referring to the hosted model which is the exact same feature and functionality as a local version.

FWIW http://www.intuithostingprogram.com/index.php

"The Intuit Hosting Program allows end-users to have their licensed copies of QuickBooks desktop software installed on servers in an authorized remote hosting facility, and then access that software over the Internet on a virtual desktop via a secure connection and a web browser."

 

[poadeleted21]

We use HP blade servers. We also have 150 people to care and feed them.

If you were asking me, I'd suggest a cloud based service or else you're going to get to learn about Software patching, networking, backup software and most importantly data security. And you need to constantly monitor the system.

You could also use a better ISP, I've not been impressed with Uverse service.

If you're convinced you want the hardware in house, just go shopping for a blade server somewhere like serversupply.com

 

[mulligan]

You can go to dell.com and go to the small business page. As mentioned before, you can get a great server for 1-2k however the server software is where they will get you. If you only have 5 people you may be ok because I believe server 2012 comes with 5 cals

 

[RJM62]

I haven't set up a Microsoft server since... I think 2008, so I can't comment on 2012.

However, it's never been especially difficult to set up a Windows server. It's mainly a matter of knowing what you want to do before you begin so you know what choices have to be made during set-up and configuration. You seem to have a good grasp on that part.

As for the physical server, I always found MicroCenter to be the best of the mass-market vendors if you actually go to a store. They tend to hire pretty bright people.

Another possibility would be to look for a Microsoft Certified Partner. I don't know about now, but they used to do a decent job of weeding out the morons. This looks like a pretty good place to start.

The other place to find local talent is Craigslist. Get good references, however. There are a lot of good techs on CL, but there are a lot of morons and scam artists, as well.

Rich

 

[CT4ME]

I recommend all you need is a NAS which can be bought at Best Buy and all of your associates can map drives to that. In fact, buy two. One for production and one for backup of the production.
http://www.engeniustech.com

'Can't us a NAS, as Quickbooks needs to have their database MGR running on the server.

A regular workstation, running W7-10 could be used as a server, but you are limited to 10 connections, and security setup is a perhaps less than you desire.

 

[jsstevens]

Does MS still sell Small Business Server? We started with that 11 years ago and it was an incredible value for what it was. Domain Controller, Server, SQL Server and Exchange all in one package for ~$500 for 5 CAL (then). It sounds like it's right in line with your needs. Setup is pretty easy. It doesn't scale above 30 or so users (despite what the sales literature says) and if you ever have to migrate to full up MS Server, start your domain over from scratch.

Anyway, check into that.

John

 

[weilke]

I know people like to rag on Dell, but their products have worked well for me. I have just set up an additional T310 rack server, but unless you already have a cabinet you are probably better off with a Tower.

As mentioned, the money is in the software, not the box.

A basic T320 bundled with Windows Server 2012 Standard Edition installed lists at $1789 (the box without OS is $700 or so)
The upgrades you would probably 'need' is
- an upgrade to 16GB memory
- a raid controller and a second hard drive to achieve Raid 1 (mirrored drives)
- an internal DVD/ROM drive
After those add-ons the price shows up as :

$2247


If you want to have multiple users work on the machine itself (e.g. through remote desktops):

- 5 client access licenses (CAL) for MSServer

$189

A good size UPS. I had a 1000aH APC crap out on me right after the warranty was up, so this time around I tried a TrippLite 1000aH

$129

I have gotten used to the SonicWall security appliances / firewalls. Dell bought them out, but it looks like they were smart enough to leave the Sonicwall people in charge of the product. They come with one VPN license which allows you (or your support guy) to remote in securely.

A TZ300 retails for

$645. (+$350/year for the services after the first year is up.

A decent switch. After frying a number of netgear (Cisco consumer grade) boxes, I have now used D-Link 'green' swiches.

$149


And then you need a guy to help you put it together. Setting up the sonicwall, the domain and the server can be done off-site. Once it all works, all you need is to know how to plug in the network settings from AT&T. If you set up your employees to work via remote desktop sessions, the individual PCs dont need to be anything fancy and what you have will probably work for terminals. It takes about 5min to learn how to join your workstations to the domain which is the only thing you need to do locally.







And yes, I know, you can do all that with Linux and a firewall you built out of a shoebox and an old radio-shack telephone for a fraction of the cost. I also know that HP/IBM/your cousin Mike can build a server for much less than Dell, that Sonicwalls are overpriced junk and dont run lean of peak. But that's not what the man asked.

 

[weilke]

Does MS still sell Small Business Server? We started with that 11 years ago and it was an incredible value for what it was. Domain Controller, Server, SQL Server and Exchange all in one package for ~$500 for 5 CAL (then). It sounds like it's right in line with your needs.

It was a great value. It was the 'free crack' that got me started on MS Server. Everything ran on one box (in my case a Laptop). Unfortunately, it was too good of a value so it went away with Server 2012. There is something called 'Essentials' but it has none of the features your mentioned.

 

[jsstevens]

It was a great value. It was the 'free crack' that got me started on MS Server. Everything ran on one box (in my case a Laptop). Unfortunately, it was too good of a value so it went away with Server 2012. There is something called 'Essentials' but it has none of the features your mentioned.

That's a shame. It got us hooked. It was a perfect setup for a small shop.

John

 

[sferguson524]

I know people like to rag on Dell, but their products have worked well for me. I have just set up an additional T310 rack server, but unless you already have a cabinet you are probably better off with a Tower.

As mentioned, the money is in the software, not the box.

A basic T320 bundled with Windows Server 2012 Standard Edition installed lists at $1789 (the box without OS is $700 or so)
The upgrades you would probably 'need' is
- an upgrade to 16GB memory
- a raid controller and a second hard drive to achieve Raid 1 (mirrored drives)
- an internal DVD/ROM drive
After those add-ons the price shows up as :

$2247


If you want to have multiple users work on the machine itself (e.g. through remote desktops):

- 5 client access licenses (CAL) for MSServer

$189

A good size UPS. I had a 1000aH APC crap out on me right after the warranty was up, so this time around I tried a TrippLite 1000aH

$129

I have gotten used to the SonicWall security appliances / firewalls. Dell bought them out, but it looks like they were smart enough to leave the Sonicwall people in charge of the product. They come with one VPN license which allows you (or your support guy) to remote in securely.

A TZ300 retails for

$645. (+$350/year for the services after the first year is up.

A decent switch. After frying a number of netgear (Cisco consumer grade) boxes, I have now used D-Link 'green' swiches.

$149


And then you need a guy to help you put it together. Setting up the sonicwall, the domain and the server can be done off-site. Once it all works, all you need is to know how to plug in the network settings from AT&T. If you set up your employees to work via remote desktop sessions, the individual PCs dont need to be anything fancy and what you have will probably work for terminals. It takes about 5min to learn how to join your workstations to the domain which is the only thing you need to do locally.







And yes, I know, you can do all that with Linux and a firewall you built out of a shoebox and an old radio-shack telephone for a fraction of the cost. I also know that HP/IBM/your cousin Mike can build a server for much less than Dell, that Sonicwalls are overpriced junk and dont run lean of peak. But that's not what the man asked.

I have close to 20 years of experience in IT, and this sounds like a great way to go

 

[charheep]

We use CDW for our servers. Yes, they are close to us geographically, but we can call and ask any stupid tech question (can I get a HP server in a quad core with SSD's, or we need 100 10 foot cat6 cables with the good ends, not that break off your finger ends) and the sales reps are quite good and knowledgeable). Not like calling Dell/HP and trying to learn whatever language they are speaking. And CDW's tech services are pretty good. We dont shop around, so I cant speak of the pricing, but in the 16 years I have been with this company, CDW has come through each time.

 

[Frogs97]

I know people like to rag on Dell, but their products have worked well for me. I have just set up an additional T310 rack server, but unless you already have a cabinet you are probably better off with a Tower.

As mentioned, the money is in the software, not the box.

A basic T320 bundled with Windows Server 2012 Standard Edition installed lists at $1789 (the box without OS is $700 or so)
The upgrades you would probably 'need' is
- an upgrade to 16GB memory
- a raid controller and a second hard drive to achieve Raid 1 (mirrored drives)
- an internal DVD/ROM drive
After those add-ons the price shows up as :

$2247


If you want to have multiple users work on the machine itself (e.g. through remote desktops):

- 5 client access licenses (CAL) for MSServer

$189

A good size UPS. I had a 1000aH APC crap out on me right after the warranty was up, so this time around I tried a TrippLite 1000aH

$129

I have gotten used to the SonicWall security appliances / firewalls. Dell bought them out, but it looks like they were smart enough to leave the Sonicwall people in charge of the product. They come with one VPN license which allows you (or your support guy) to remote in securely.

A TZ300 retails for

$645. (+$350/year for the services after the first year is up.

A decent switch. After frying a number of netgear (Cisco consumer grade) boxes, I have now used D-Link 'green' swiches.

$149


And then you need a guy to help you put it together. Setting up the sonicwall, the domain and the server can be done off-site. Once it all works, all you need is to know how to plug in the network settings from AT&T. If you set up your employees to work via remote desktop sessions, the individual PCs dont need to be anything fancy and what you have will probably work for terminals. It takes about 5min to learn how to join your workstations to the domain which is the only thing you need to do locally.







And yes, I know, you can do all that with Linux and a firewall you built out of a shoebox and an old radio-shack telephone for a fraction of the cost. I also know that HP/IBM/your cousin Mike can build a server for much less than Dell, that Sonicwalls are overpriced junk and dont run lean of peak. But that's not what the man asked.

Not a bad setup. Only thing I would change would be the SonicWall. For a company with zero IT support, a SonicWall may be a bit much to manage. If you're not publishing anything outside your firewall, and don't have any plans for ****ing off the guys in Anonymous or Chinese hackers, then the built-in firewall that comes with any consumer router will be just fine. Not ideal, but if you can't find anyone with boots on the ground to manage it, you don't want to get too far in over your head.

 

[weilke]

Not a bad setup. Only thing I would change would be the SonicWall. For a company with zero IT support, a SonicWall may be a bit much to manage. If you're not publishing anything outside your firewall, and don't have any plans for ****ing off the guys in Anonymous or Chinese hackers, then the built-in firewall that comes with any consumer router will be just fine. Not ideal, but if you can't find anyone with boots on the ground to manage it, you don't want to get too far in over your head.

He wanted remote access. Now of course, he can do that with with 'logmein' and other options, but if he goes through the trouble of setting up a server, he can use remote desktop to work on the road in the same environment as in the office. Some of the consumer grade boxes offer VPN clients, setting them up is not that much easier than setting up a sonicwall (I went to sonicwall when I started to run into limits of the linksys 'small business' vpn routers). The sonicwall boxes come with setup assistance, and again, as much as people like to rag on indian IT support, the support guys have dealt with have been competent and helpful.

 

[weilke]

I mentioned above that a Tower format for the server is probably the way to go, depending on your office layout, that may not be correct.

If you want to do away with the tangle of wires that a firewall, switch, server and UPS can create, consider putting everything into a 19in cabinet. It costs maybe $500 extra, but losing a day of production because someone indadvertently unplugs some piece of equipment and doesn't know how to plug it back in will make up for that in a hurry (yes, the grey box on top of the black box, yes the one with the purple blinking light......).

 

[denverpilot]

Couple of older Dells in that cabinet there. Those usually run forever with fresh hard drives every few years or more.

If there's one piece of advice I would give it would be that if you're in a small town with no local suppliers of server parts, keep a spare drive for the RAID sitting in a box and a spare power supply if the machine isn't a dual supply system. Those are what break and having spares sitting there is prudent. Save you a lot of logistical problems. Pop the new one in and order a replacement later.

We threw our Sonicwall in the garbage and put in Checkpoint but it isn't for the faint of heart.

It was utterly amazing the absolutely stupid things the Sonicwall was doing, once we stuck a sniffer on a couple of span ports.

Then you'd document it and report it to Dell (who owns Sonicwall now) and they'd say you had to run the beta software to get rid of the bad behavior. And you'd look and the Beta had been in Beta for over a year.

I don't think the Dell acquisition of Sonicwall did them any good. They seemed to be very behind and very unresponsive during the timeframe we dealt with them, but more than happy to cash the support checks.

Don't really have any great ideas on tiny firewalls though. I'd personally build a pfSense machine before I'd ever touch a Sonicwall ever again.

 

[weilke]

Couple of older Dells in that cabinet there.

Lol, yeah delivered a month ago. I guess that makes them 'older' in the IT world.

 

[John221us]

Get at least a three year warranty with guaranteed parts replacement (that way if a motherboard fails, you don't have to rebuild the server OS). The major vendors all offer that. Find a company that will build and ship. They can preconfigured everything and it should be pretty plug and play. The follow up should be able to be provided remotely. In my business, we are able to do most things remotely, with some "smart hands" on site to plug things in and power cycle stuff. 2012 Essentials will probably work and it doesn't require CALs. The big disadvantage is it doesn't include the virtualization instances. If you want to do Remote Desktop to the server, you should get standard edition with the CALs (you will also need Terminal Server CALs) and virtualized the file server and then a separate Terminal Server. The Standard Edition license gives you the virtual host base license and two virtual server instances. Like others above, I am not a fan of Sonicwall. Go with a low end Cisco ASA or a Juniper SRX.

 

[denverpilot]

Lol, yeah delivered a month ago. I guess that makes them 'older' in the IT world.

Faceplates looked like their older models. Guess they haven't updated the outside look. What's in them? The pizza box server industry has become a commodity market for the most part.

HP did another major change in their Gen 9 stuff post-Compaq-era but they don't seem to be raising the actual value of the machines much. Mostly window dressing.