Hotels

[Z06_Mir]

Unless we're going to a destination for a specific reason (Reno, San Diego, Vegas) I just have the FBO do it. They get rates and usually have complimentary transportation to/from. Still get points too. The FBO also knows who takes care of customers and who is just average.

 

[flyingron]

Unless we're going to a destination for a specific reason (Reno, San Diego, Vegas) I just have the FBO do it. They get rates and usually have complimentary transportation to/from. Still get points too. The FBO also knows who takes care of customers and who is just average.

One time we showed up at MRB and asked if we could get to a hotel. Which one? Any one that will come and get us. The Holiday Inn sent out a van. We were tired and hungry and decided we'd eat in the hotel restraurant (how bad could it be) which they had given us a 10% off coupon at checkin. The meal was excellent. The next morning I went to check out and found I had been the winner of the "dine and stay" promotion which they drew one person who ate dinner and stayed at the hotel and we got our room for free.

One time we landed in Iowa because the airport directory said there was a hotel just off the field. Get there and the guy ahead of us in line gets the last room. I bring out the iPad and ask where nearby I can get a room and she calls the hotel in Pochahantas, Iowa and finds they have a room. She gives me driving directions. I tell her I have to fly there. She says you can't fly there, the airport isn't very big. Smaller than this one here? Oh yeah, I guess that's not a problem. The problem is the hotel is not right next to the airport. She calls the police out there and they say there's a crew car but if we can't get it call them and they'd give a ride. Get there, there's a decommissioned police car in the lot we figure has to be the crew car. Nobody in the FBO. A short search found the keys. Turns out it was their "heritage days" so we had a nice dinner and moved into the park for fireworks.

Gotta love small towns.

 

[weilke]

Gotten burned too often with non-brand hotels. I look up where I want to stay using Expedia and book the room I want on hhonors or Marriott.com.

 

[wsuffa]

Youre gonna need to 'splain that a bit more. You're telling us that a hotel front desk clerk wanted you to book on-line when you walked in off the street, credit card in-hand??

That's, um, crazy.

Did you actually stay at that hotel? I wouldn't have let the door hit me on the butt on the way out! lol

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Easier for them. They don't have to type the info in & the frequent guest status is already there. Saves them from some of the ID checking (and this place wanted to photocopy the ID, which is a no no for identity theft reasons - said it was a city requirement for walk-ins). There are a few cities where the city politicians put draconian requirements on walk-in customers in an attempt to stop prostitution, but don't apply them to reservations made "in advance".

Even with a corporate reservation I was walked from one chain hotel (one of the Hilton brands) for showing a passport card as ID - they insisted on driver license with address (and it was another place that wanted a photocopy to boot). That is exactly the recipe for identity theft that bit me at a 4* hotel in NYC.

Not everyone is as savvy an hotelier as you are.

 

[wsuffa]

If you have to dump your rooms on Priceline, you call that "success"?

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Why not? You don't have to be 100% occupied every night to be successful, and if you can make incremental income by selling the rooms through Priceline, why wouldn't you take the money? I'd call it even less successful if you don't take money that's offered for unsold inventory.

Would be a different story if the inventory weren't perishable.

 

[airnav]

Thanks, folks. Quite a lot of interesting discussion.

It seems that most of you caught on to the disadvantages of using those 3rd party aggregators (Expedia, Hotels.com, Priceline, etc.) Well, duh, you guys are the same pilot population that caught on to that when our provider moved to Expedia, and pilots started complaining to us, we listened and changed. We no longer use the aggregators. We book direct with hotels.

Also, points and elite status are important to many of you. We know that. All our rates at all participating hotels allow you to earn points and have your elite status recognized, just as if you booked directly with the hotel chain. And I am not using "participating hotels" to weasel out of some. It is simply that some hotels don't participate in any program at all (hi Jay). But any Marriott, Hilton, Hyatt, Best Western, Holiday Inn, even Days Inn or Red Roof Inn or Super 8 has some points program, and we support just about all of them. So fear not, enter your loyalty program number and you will get your points. We even support loyalty programs that cater to independent hotels, such as Stash Rewards, DISCOVERY, or the Joy of Life Club. Below are our number of U.S. hotels we support in each loyalty program. When you book on AirNav, we prompt you for the proper membership number, and even save it for the next trip so you don't have to reenter it. Also, if you are loyal to some program, you can filter your AirNav search to show only that program -- and AirNav is smart enough to show all brands (or independents) that earn into that program.
Wyndham Rewards 5700
Choice Privileges 5647
Hilton Honors 4612
Marriott Rewards 4143
IHG Rewards 3676
Best Western Rewards 1887
Hello Rewards 1456
La Quinta Returns 898
SPG 672
Radisson Rewards 556
RediCard 548
World of Hyatt 526
iPrefer 190
Stash Hotel Rewards 131
Gold Key Club 130
Voila Hotel Rewards 120
Sonesta Travel Pass 55
Select Guest 48
Club 5C 44
Ritz-Carlton Rewards 44
DISCOVERY 39
Leaders Club 37
Peakpoints 32
Total Rewards 29
Le Club AccorHotels 28
L.E. Hotels Rewards 26
INVITED 23
M life Rewards 22
Joy of Life Club 21
YouFirst Rewards 18
Westmark Guest Rewards 5
Melia Rewards 4
Accent 1
New Otani Club 1
One Harmony 1
Pestana Priority Guest 1
Prince Preferred 1

Finally, with every chain we tested, your AirNav reservations appear instantly on their native web site and app. Most chains allow you to modify and cancel your AirNav reservations directly on their site (we tested Marriott, SPG, Hyatt, Choice, etc.), and some have some limitations (Wyndham and Best Western seem the least reliable). But even those whose apps have limitations, you can always call their 800 numbers and they have all the details of your reservations and can edit or cancel. In any case you can always cancel your reservations on AirNav, easily with two clicks (one to click Cancel, another to confirm). In fact, 26% of our reservations get canceled by our users, it's the nature of aviation. Managing your reservations on AirNav may be easier, because occasionally you may have a hotel stay outside of your preferred chain, and may not remember where the heck you booked. But AirNav does.

We have put a lot of effort into meeting pilot requests, so please give it a try before assuming we are like any 3rd party aggregator. We believe we have addressed many pilot requests, and the purpose of me coming here is to ask you what else we can do with hotels to serve you even better.

Now let me address specific comments.

Personally...only way I would book though a third party site like an AirNav is if though the AirNav site it took me direct to the Hotel site with say an AirNav promo code populated...kinda like a AAA discount.

The reason we don't do that is because then you would be going one-way to the hotel site, and would not be able to manage your reservation on AirNav, nor would we be able to notify the FBO of your reservation (if you so choose). Basically, when we send you to the hotel site we lose track of what you do there. And we would not be able to help you manage or cancel your reservation at some XYZ airport, you'd have to go to the brand site, if you even remember what chain you booked.

Part of booking direct for me is also the ability to manipulate and manage my own reservation logged in as a reward member for that chain.

You asked for it, you got it. Done.

My ace on the hole is the FBO. Every FBO has some hotel connections. They may not be where or what you want but often the best value (cheapest) and most important, when every single room in town is booked, they can save one’s bacon!

Yes indeed. We are adding FBO rates at a furious pace (about 20 FBOs/week). We have one employee dedicated full time to just loading FBO rates. When you see green prices on AirNav, those are FBO rates. Sometimes the savings are over $100/night. It's crazy. Crazy good. If you are going to a multi-FBO airport you have to select your FBO first, because we are only allowed to query rates for your FBO of choice. We have seen $100+ differences at airports such as HVN, ALB, DTS, MKT. $50+ is quite common.

Back when the nearest hotels were listed under the fuel price section I would use the mileage info to pick a place to RON if necessary.

Is this something you would like to see return? Nearest/recommended hotels directly on the airport page? Those links did not get a lot of clicks in the past so we didn't reinstate them, but if it's important... You're the boss.

I don't book through the aggregators (Hotels, priceline, etc...) for anything. I've been screwed too many freaking times. I book with the chains own site (if they have one), which usually works though sometimes you gotta call the inn and plead your case.

Booking with AirNav should be very similar to booking with the chain directly. In what kinds of situations do you have to plead a case with the inn, that the chain site can't handle?

 

[eman1200]

just curious, but I punched in a location and date into airnav and priceline. two locations were the same price and one was $36 less on priceline. this was using the base price on priceline, not even using the bid feature. I'm fine with giving airnav a try, but why would I want to pay more?

 

[Bill Watson]

Hotwire IS actually a real discount on-line booking service, and you can save money using them. Same with PriceLine.

The only flaw in that system is that only unsuccessful hotels use it (they dump rooms they know they can't sell there) and we usually don't want to stay at that sort of place.

The other flaw with on-line booking (that I forgot to mention earlier) is that most hotels shut off the 3rd party booking companies on high demand weekends. Therefore, you may not see any availability on line, even though there are plenty of available rooms.

We don't use them on any weekends during our high season (April - October), since there is no reason to pay them 15% when we will sell out anyway.

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Consider using these services when you don’t sell out. I suggest that because that’s how I’ve been discovering new-to-us, non-chain hotels lately. Having stayed in the big chains for years, we both have developed a taste for non-chain and boutique places (as well as Airbnb). The problem is one is always taking a risk going off the beaten path. A good price deal can overcome the risk on an off peak stay. And as a retired couple with a plane we try real hard to travel at non-peak times.

What's the deal with room blocks? For one event that I was attending the event website said "We have a room block for $150/night" and then a couple days later they update the site to say "Sorry but the block has sold out." So I look on hotels.com and booked the same type of room in the same hotel for $100/night.

It’s just like the airlines, it’s revenue management, and who can blame them? You can trade personal time and effort to get a better rate.

Youre gonna need to 'splain that a bit more. You're telling us that a hotel front desk clerk wanted you to book on-line when you walked in off the street, credit card in-hand??

That's, um, crazy.

Did you actually stay at that hotel? I wouldn't have let the door hit me on the butt on the way out! lol

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I’m under the impression that chain front desks are not really in the biz of handling walk-ins. And if you aren’t a gold plated freq stayer, assume the position and expect a thorough rate screwing unless you can talk a good game.


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[airnav]

just curious, but I punched in a location and date into airnav and priceline. two locations were the same price and one was $36 less on priceline. this was using the base price on priceline, not even using the bid feature. I'm fine with giving airnav a try, but why would I want to pay more?

Sometimes cancellation policies are different. Many Priceline rates are pay-now non-refundable, and the AirNav rate may be flexible. Or sometimes Priceline may simply have a better rate. Or sometimes AirNav may have a better rate. There is no way to tell unless you compare rates and terms. What airport/hotel and dates did you try?

And points, of course. With Priceline you get no hotel points, with AirNav you do. May or may not matter to you, depends on whether you collect hotel points.

 

[flyingron]

Booking with AirNav should be very similar to booking with the chain directly. In what kinds of situations do you have to plead a case with the inn, that the chain site can't handle?

Sometimes rooms come up unavailable for all the nights (though other rooms are available) or the rates get screwed up if attending a conference. The local hotel can sometimes manipulate their availabilty,etc.. to make things right.

 

[airnav]

Sometimes rooms come up unavailable for all the nights (though other rooms are available) or the rates get screwed up if attending a conference. The local hotel can sometimes manipulate their availabilty,etc.. to make things right.

Ah, yes, that's right. If you are staying two nights, and the first night only has the non-smoking king available, and the second night only has the two doubles handicapped room available, no online search is going to say there is a room available for two nights. The local hotel may move around units of inventory to make it happen. And sometimes it will require that you move room during your stay. Indeed this is something that is best handled by the local hotel. But it's a fairly edge case.

 

[eman1200]

Sometimes cancellation policies are different. Many Priceline rates are pay-now non-refundable, and the AirNav rate may be flexible. Or sometimes Priceline may simply have a better rate. Or sometimes AirNav may have a better rate. There is no way to tell unless you compare rates and terms. What airport/hotel and dates did you try?

And points, of course. With Priceline you get no hotel points, with AirNav you do. May or may not matter to you, depends on whether you collect hotel points.

I punched in 2 places I frequent. second location was about the same, 2 hotels matched, one was cheaper on PL. I'll keep looking and maybe just add airnav to one of the places I search.

 

[Anymouse]

I'll let other's talk some more about the hotel thing. Time to let this thread drift a bit...

Is there any way you can post FBO fees in addition to gas prices? We're talking ramp fees, landing fees, tie down, hangar, etc.

It might be awesome if AirBoss members can get some of those fees waived/reduced.

 

[airnav]

Is there any way you can post FBO fees in addition to gas prices? We're talking ramp fees, landing fees, tie down, hangar, etc.

We're looking into it, but the FBOs with the highest fees (and those are the ones that matter, no one minds free of low fees) refuse to share their fee schedules or have them published. We have been talking to FBOs about this, and I kid you not, one said "I look at you, try to guess how much is in your wallet, that's the fee".

 

[Anymouse]

We're looking into it, but the FBOs with the highest fees (and those are the ones that matter, no one minds free of low fees) refuse to share their fee schedules or have them published. We have been talking to FBOs about this, and I kid you not, one said "I look at you, try to guess how much is in your wallet, that's the fee".

Perhaps putting up fees from those that provide them, and a note in the same spot that says a particular FBO did not provide them. It'll be interesting to see what happens at an airport with multiple FBOs when one provides the fees and the other(s) doesn't.

 

[tspear]

Perhaps putting up fees from those that provide them, and a note in the same spot that says a particular FBO did not provide them. It'll be interesting to see what happens at an airport with multiple FBOs when one provides the fees and the other(s) doesn't.

https://www.rampfee.me/

Take a look. A friend started this a while back, I do not know much about it.

Tim

 

[Anymouse]

https://www.rampfee.me/

Take a look. A friend started this a while back, I do not know much about it.

Tim

I had no idea!!

 

[denverpilot]

We're looking into it, but the FBOs with the highest fees (and those are the ones that matter, no one minds free of low fees) refuse to share their fee schedules or have them published. We have been talking to FBOs about this, and I kid you not, one said "I look at you, try to guess how much is in your wallet, that's the fee".

I’d be wiling to PAY for access to a database that tracked FBOs that behave like that.

I bet other people would, too. Accurate info about bad FBO behavior is valuable.

But I suspect the bad ones like that also pay for advertising? I know you can’t say who they were.

Hopefully if that one wanted to advertise, you guys would decline? Can’t serve the pilot community without being above board about stuff like that.

Do you guys sell the airport and FBO table information as a back end data feed under license to non-competing businesses or non-profits?

A community effort website to track bad player FBOs could sure use something like that to kickstart their database. Let pilots update the data.

A “one stop shop” for FBO fees or just evidence of a refusal to answer, is a money maker as a website, and even a sellable data feed to the likes of ForeFlight, Garmin, anybody selling an EFB who wants an edge in their airport data.

Just a thought.

 

[asicer]

...and I kid you not, one said "I look at you, try to guess how much is in your wallet, that's the fee".

Note to self: Don't throw away old T-shirts with holes in them. Get bids on vinyl wrap with simulated oil stains.

 

[Jay Honeck]

Actually I have had something like that happen once.
The clerk said they already put some rooms on Priceline, so i could save a lot by booking it online. He did say it will take about twenty minutes to hit their system. It was a NYC Hilton, got it for 50 bucks. Well worth it, went for a nice dinner while waiting on the computers to send across the data.

Tim

Wow. Just wow.

I can't imagine telling a customer that! SMH

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[Bill Watson]

Wow. Just wow.

I can't imagine telling a customer that! SMH

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Really? On site owner versus employee of a far off mega-corporation... I know you would never do it but you can count on the typical chain front desk manager to act nonsensically.

I find myself trying to figure out who I’m talking with in every transaction; restaurant, hotel, FBO, Craigslist. The only thing you can count on is that everyone appreciates being treated with polite respect, especially when they aren’t doing the same to you for reasons unknown.

BTW, I find that if conditions are just right at some quiet ‘port, a takeoff followed by a chandelle to TPA is an awful lot of fun!


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[SCCutler]

I might want to look at booking through Airnav where appropriate - sounds like there's a pretty serious effort going on here!

Edit: Played around a bit - Looks very useful!

 

[JOhnH]

Wow. Just wow.

I can't imagine telling a customer that! SMH

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That's the difference between owners and employees.

 

[Jay Honeck]

That's the difference between owners and employees.

If one of my employees told a customer to book on-line, instead of helping them, that employee would be immediately escorted off the property.

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[Bill Watson]

That's the difference between owners and employees.

Yes and one hopes front desk managers act like owners but too often act like .employees.


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[eman1200]

If one of my employees told a customer to book on-line, instead of helping them, that employee would be immediately escorted off the property.

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I'm just curious, would you price match an online quote from say priceline?

 

[Bill Watson]

I'm just curious, would you price match an online quote from say priceline?

If an owner had decided to use Priceline to fill some rooms and some shows up and offers to the deal directly at the same price, why not? The owner takes advantage of using Priceline and collects a few more bucks.

A lot of properties would never use Priceline but if they did, why not? Priceline depends on customers making the purchase off-premise.

(Sorry for jumping in but just wanted to see if I get it... Jay knows)




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[Jay Honeck]

I'm just curious, would you price match an online quote from say priceline?

Well, we would never use Priceline to sell our rooms -- but if we did, of course we would match the price.

In fact, we would beat it, because we would be saving money by booking you over the phone.

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[eman1200]

All I know is I recently booked a hotel room on Priceline for $84/night that was going for $119 on airnav. No brainer for me.

 

[flyingron]

I've gotten pretty heavily burned by PRICELINE on rental cars and EXPEDIA on hotel rooms, so i tend to avoid them.

 

[rtk11]

I recently booked a room and was told by the front desk to book online since the online price was cheaper. She didn’t bother to try to match or beat the online rate and said, “I don’t think that price is possible, and I can’t offer you that rate. If you see that price online, you should reserve it online.”

 

[Jay Honeck]

I recently booked a room and was told by the front desk to book online since the online price was cheaper. She didn’t bother to try to match or beat the online rate and said, “I don’t think that price is possible, and I can’t offer you that rate. If you see that price online, you should reserve it online.”

I always find it interesting that people hold restaurants and retail stores to very high standards of customer service, but willingly suffer with the most amazingly bad service from chain motels.

If a motel employee tells you, their valued guest, to reserve with someone else, DON'T STAY THERE. There are many great hotels out there -- you don't have to put up with such bad service.

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[ktup-flyer]

Really good place to look for EAA members---https://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/eaa-membership/eaa-member-benefits/eaa-barnstorming-deals

 

[steingar]

The one time I booked on Priceline I got a screaming good deal. New about the aggregator sites though, Steingar listens.

 

[DaleB]

I didn't know Airnav did hotel reservations... I'll check it out next time I need a room.

I will often use sites like Expedia and Kayak to find hotels and get an idea of pricing, but always call the hotel directly or use the chain's web site to make my reservation. We used hotels.com once. The (major chain) hotel was an absolute horror show fleabag. Hotel refused to cancel, refund or modify the reservation, saying our deal was with hotels.com. Hotels.com was useless, saying we had to take it up with the hotel. Lesson learned... never, ever again. I'll use their web site because I figure they still owe me for that experience, but they will never again see a dime of my money.

 

[eman1200]

So it was looking like weather might keep me at the hotel an extra day. I asked the front desk what the extra night would cost. They told me the rate was $109, then said ‘oh u booked on Priceline, we can match their price’. I thought that was cool of them. Turns out I didn’t need it but still good to know.

 

[bflynn]

Is there any way you can post FBO fees in addition to gas prices? We're talking ramp fees, landing fees, tie down, hangar, etc.

https://www.rampfee.me/

These guys call the FBOs and get all the prices. Pretty sure they are available as a service.