Home Water Pressure

They don’t use water pressure to wash clothes. All it does is meters water into the drum.
 
Stewartb said:
They don’t use water pressure to wash clothes. All it does is meters water into the drum.
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This one does have a spray function that sprays the water onto the clothes from the top, rather than just filling the drum. So I suspect that is why it's more finicky - part of its ability to wash clothes the way it's designed is dependent on its ability to spray water on the clothes.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
They said the "main" is a 3" line at the street.



Our washers have been fine until this new one. We're definitely catering to its needs here. The old washer didn't have this issue, but it also died.

@tspear good points. I'll do some diagnostics this weekend...
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i'll let the engineers on this thread keep arguing, but i'm the MBA so here's my way to solve it...

a new washer is infinitely less expensive (likely) than all the stuff you're contemplating. Since the only adverse affect you have is that one washing machine doesn't work, instead of upgrading the infrastructure, just get a less finicky machine...
 
MIFlyer said:
i'll let the engineers on this thread keep arguing, but i'm the MBA so here's my way to solve it...

a new washer is infinitely less expensive (likely) than all the stuff you're contemplating. Since the only adverse affect you have is that one washing machine doesn't work, instead of upgrading the infrastructure, just get a less finicky machine...
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Agree with those points 100%. But keep in mind, my wife likes this new washing machine. ;)

I'm sure we could return the washer/dryer to Menard's and get our money back and get something different. And maybe we should. On the other hand, the water flow in this house has been a complaint since we moved in. So, if we are able to do something that improves that situation, then that's not a bad thing, either. I also really don't feel like getting that washer/dryer back down the stairs and get new ones back up the stairs. Electrolux is sending a tech out next week but I'm sure they'll say it's our house's fault.
 
Actually, I bet that I could go to Menard's and get them to knock some extra money off of a water pressure tank as a customer service deal...
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Agree with those points 100%. But keep in mind, my wife likes this new washing machine. ;)

I'm sure we could return the washer/dryer to Menard's and get our money back and get something different. And maybe we should. On the other hand, the water flow in this house has been a complaint since we moved in. So, if we are able to do something that improves that situation, then that's not a bad thing, either. I also really don't feel like getting that washer/dryer back down the stairs and get new ones back up the stairs. Electrolux is sending a tech out next week but I'm sure they'll say it's our house's fault.
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Happy wife, happy life!

OK, adding in the issue that you generally are not very happy with the water pressure, I would look VERY hard at just solving the problem through a trenchless water line upgrade (maybe go 1.5" poly or if you have the money, PEX), OR do your tank solution, but the bigger water line (even if you leave your 3/4" meter in place) would probably solve all of your issues. there are trenchless pullers that can do it with a lot less disruption, it might be worth getting an eyeball price on it to permanently address it. also, then if you add irrigation, or a workshop with showers/etc you've solved the whole problem
 
Offering Ted a solution:

If you can find one, buy your wife an old agitator/wringer washer from the fifties and tell he to get used to it. :devil: A solar dryer will also work well and save money. Don't forget the ironing board.
 
MIFlyer said:
Happy wife, happy life!

OK, adding in the issue that you generally are not very happy with the water pressure, I would look VERY hard at just solving the problem through a trenchless water line upgrade (maybe go 1.5" poly or if you have the money, PEX), OR do your tank solution, but the bigger water line (even if you leave your 3/4" meter in place) would probably solve all of your issues. there are trenchless pullers that can do it with a lot less disruption, it might be worth getting an eyeball price on it to permanently address it. also, then if you add irrigation, or a workshop with showers/etc you've solved the whole problem
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And you were doing so well saving him money now ya turn around and spend it. MBAs!

Identify the problem before spending money.
 
Norman said:
Offering Ted a solution:

If you can find one, buy your wife an old agitator/wringer washer from the fifties and tell he to get used to it. :devil: A solar dryer will also work well and save money. Don't forget the ironing board.
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giphy.gif
 
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Our house came with a big ole black tank and a pump. While I don't like the fact that something mechanical turns on every time we turn on the water, I feel somewhat better prepared for the zombie apocalypse.
 
Have you tried unhooking the water supply hoses from the washer and checking the flow into a bucket? I'm just thinking verify it's not a localized problem with the washer plumbing prior to doing anything drastic.

A water pressure gauge and T fitting would probably run about $15 from Home Depot, maybe plumb it in line withe water supply at the washer so you can see the pressure there while the unit is running.
 
Norman said:
Offering Ted a solution:

If you can find one, buy your wife an old agitator/wringer washer from the fifties and tell he to get used to it. :devil: A solar dryer will also work well and save money. Don't forget the ironing board.
Click to expand...

Even better suggestion! Uses no electricity and very efficient water usage, which you can drain on shrubs/lawn/ after using it.

wash_board_and_tub..jpg
 
Clark1961 said:
And you were doing so well saving him money now ya turn around and spend it. MBAs!

Identify the problem before spending money.
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it's kind of a superpower

yes, if you can tee and get a pressure reading at the meter both static and more importantly under load, that would be cool.

so, tee the line to the washer with a pressure meter and tee the line just your side of the meter and do same.

apply demand, observe pressure drop at both.

do a bunch of fluid dynamics calculations

decide on actions.

--- basically, pull the mag and look in the accessory case for corrosion
 
Our house, although connected to city water, sits probably higher than the city's water tower. So the solution at time of construction, when an attempt at well drilling was met with drilling into and reportedly losing substantial drilling hardware into a subjacent cavern, was to sink a 500G concrete cistern down the hill with a well pump inside. City water fills the cistern with a float cutoff valve, from which the well pump functions like a well pump. All is well. We haven't gotten sick yet.
 
When we bought our house, we had the same issue. Not with the washer, but with the showers. One shower running was adequate, but if the other was running, or something else was using water (toilet flush), the shower pressure would be unacceptable. After a bunch of investigating and calling around (but luckily no money spent), it turns out the main valve in our front yard wasn't open all the way. The water guys came with their valve wrench, and gave it a couple of more spins, and voila... normal water pressure in the house.
 
mscard88 said:
It's not if ya do it yourself. Digging it up is the hard part of course. But plastic pipe isn't that expensive. Some contact cement and couples. I did my in-laws (just a subdivision lot) for I think less than $50, back in the late 80s I think. Theirs was easy to find, front yard was saturated, and mom-in-law was by herself and plumbers wanted 6-800 bucks. Told her don't do it, I'll be right over.
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Sounds like Ted needs to own a Ditch Witch....
 
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Thinking about a Ditch Witch

Sounds like a thread title.
 
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Couple of thoughts before you embark on the expenditures for a new water line or booster pump.


You mention that you get 65psi. Is that pressure right where the water line enters the house? Can you measure the size of the line from the main and the material of construction? 65psi should be plenty for home use, but as you observe, pressure isn’t everything, flow rate figures into this. Your house is 500 feet from the water main, that’s a fair distance and I believe you said the main is 3”? Depending on how many homes are served by that 3” main, that may be a bit small. Did the town water folks know what pressure they maintain the 3” main at? Is there a separate pressure regulator/backflow preventor located out by the main line?


Is it possible to install a permanent pressure gage right where the line enters the home? Do you have a backflow prevented installed in the home? Seen those fail partially open, plenty of static pressure, but a low flow rate. Can you hook up a tap, just downstream of the pressure gage and install a short piece of hose? You could then fill a 5 gal bucket, time the fill, and see what happens to the pressure and get an estimate of the available flow/pressure into the home (assumes all other water use is off).


Using the permanent pressure gage as reference, then turn on different water users, washer, shower, faucet so you can see what happens to pressure when each is used.


What you are tying to determine is whether you have a water supply problem (main through the 500’ serving the house) or an internal problem with the plumbing in the house.


If there are any isolation valves within the house, worth checking those out to make sure they are not failing partially open. If you have the ability to install a couple of pressure gages on different branches of the home plumbing, this might also give you a clue. Is your water particularly hard (high dissolved solids)? Maybe this issue is a constriction in the lines.


A booster tank might solve the problem, but seems to me you might want to identify the problem before paying for a solution.
 
Stewartb said:
It sounds like the washer is the problem.
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You know, it is a new washer and it's sensor may just be pooched. Something to think about. I see you have a tech coming out. Good. We had two techs out three times on the Elux oven. I wasn't exactly impressed with their troubleshooting skill level. But that's all very individual tech dependent. You get what you get.

Ted DuPuis said:
Agree with those points 100%. But keep in mind, my wife likes this new washing machine. ;)
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The "engineers" on the thread knew this was the real problem. Ha.

Norman said:
Offering Ted a solution:

If you can find one, buy your wife an old agitator/wringer washer from the fifties and tell he to get used to it. :devil: A solar dryer will also work well and save money. Don't forget the ironing board.
Click to expand...

Don't even have to go back to 50s models. Just get the "commercial" lineup from anyone. We have commercial Frigidaires for washing and drying and my wife has hinted in the past that she'd like the fancy new front loaders and stuff... until I repaired the washer with a $2.50 part.

The dryer rear drum bearing replacement kit showed up a couple of days ago after the dryer started squeaking. $12.50. It'll take 45 minutes to replace it and should last five years at least.

All the "commercial" stuff is made to be maintained/repaired. The consumer lineup, not so much. They're also boring old designs with agitators and motors and belts. Stuff any DIYer can fix in an hour if they have the parts. Some have direct drive transmissions and lose the belts, that's nice. Swapping parts on those is even easier. A drywall spatula to pop the case clips, a couple of screwdrivers, and a crescent wrench, and you can fix anything in the old style ones.

And the clothes get clean and dry.

Someday I'll cave in and get her her fancy washer and dryer set again. We had a set we left at the old house. But for now, I want the ultra stupid simple units that even a total idiot could fix. A) Because I can be a total idiot as good as anyone, and B) If I can't get around to fixing it, any Billy Bob handyman can do it with little chance of screwing it up if I have to whip out the wallet instead of the tools.
 
denverpilot said:
You know, it is a new washer and it's sensor may just be pooched. Something to think about.
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We had a new Samsung washer that worked for several months, then gave a "low water pressure" warning. I measured 40 PSI at the street, but had no indication it had changed lately. Samsung service ordered a new motherboard, arrival in ~3 weeks time.

Ended up unplugging it completely, letting it sit for 15 minutes, and plugging it back in. Works fine since. Note that it required unplugging, not just turning off....

Ron Wanttaja
 
So, you measure the pressure at the laundry tub near the washer before during and after filling. No problem? Hose or washer problem. Problem during fill but not before after? Check the pressure at a hose bib that branches off near the meter - tells you if it's an inside / outside problem. Pressure low before, during, and after filling the washer? Problem is the neighbors.
 
Looks like the washer is the issue. Cold side only goes down to 35 psi during filling and hot side down to 55. No debris at the filters for the water inlets. Even if I flush a toilet it doesn't make much difference in pressure.

I sat and watched it do a few cycles. Sometimes it'll just stick on a certain number of minutes remaining, doing nothing, and then throw the code. So yeah, washer has something wrong with it.

At least we've improved our home water pressure (which we wanted) and not spent a bunch of money on stuff we didn't need. :)
 
Ps also, since new washers and dryers have delicate electronic components, I run them on an APC surge suppressor to give them a fighting chance


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
MIFlyer said:
Ps also, since new washers and dryers have delicate electronic components, I run them on an APC surge suppressor to give them a fighting chance


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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That's called "crappy electronics design" not components that are delicate. Because the components that can handle anything thrown at them in a typical residential electrical system are literally pennies more expensive than those that can't. It's not cost savings, it's just engineering cluelessness. An MOV can handle most of what life throws at a washing machine. That's all that's inside the APC. Maybe a gas discharge tube for lightning strikes nearby. Two bucks worth of parts maximum, that should already be in the washer.
 
MIFlyer said:
Ps also, since new washers and dryers have delicate electronic components, I run them on an APC surge suppressor to give them a fighting chance


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Whole house surge suppression is the way to go...
 
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denverpilot said:
That's called "crappy electronics design" not components that are delicate. Because the components that can handle anything thrown at them in a typical residential electrical system are literally pennies more expensive than those that can't. It's not cost savings, it's just engineering cluelessness. An MOV can handle most of what life throws at a washing machine. That's all that's inside the APC. Maybe a gas discharge tube for lightning strikes nearby. Two bucks worth of parts maximum, that should already be in the washer.
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Very true
 
denverpilot said:
That's called "crappy electronics design" not components that are delicate. Because the components that can handle anything thrown at them in a typical residential electrical system are literally pennies more expensive than those that can't. It's not cost savings, it's just engineering cluelessness. An MOV can handle most of what life throws at a washing machine. That's all that's inside the APC. Maybe a gas discharge tube for lightning strikes nearby. Two bucks worth of parts maximum, that should already be in the washer.
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yes, but "should" and "is" are different words.

it should just be included in a $500 washer, but as a consumer, I have no real way to know if they did
 
MIFlyer said:
Ps also, since new washers and dryers have delicate electronic components, I run them on an APC surge suppressor to give them a fighting chance


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
APC - All Protection Compromised. They used to be good, but have developed a poor reputation over the last few years.

Clark1961 said:
Whole house surge suppression is the way to go...
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this.
 
We have whole house surge suppression.

Now the fun of getting a tech out here.
 
You dodged a bullet. Here is the pump used to fill our fifty gallon cistern. (Not to be confused with the matching set for the well.) oh the joys of living on a hill in the country. Looks like I'll have to redo the fittings.
 

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MIFlyer said:
Happy wife, happy life!

OK, adding in the issue that you generally are not very happy with the water pressure, I would look VERY hard at just solving the problem through a trenchless water line upgrade (maybe go 1.5" poly or if you have the money, PEX), OR do your tank solution, but the bigger water line (even if you leave your 3/4" meter in place) would probably solve all of your issues. there are trenchless pullers that can do it with a lot less disruption, it might be worth getting an eyeball price on it to permanently address it.
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.

You could get a different washer, but that won't cure real problem, the issue that's preventing you from enjoying a hot shower with water blasting out of the head. There's no need to do the investigations and calculations recommended by previous posters.

I think the cause of the problem is obvious. A bit of work will allow you to verify that the issue is indeed being caused by pressure drop due to distance. Determine the size of your supply piping. Check the pressure at the meter. Measure the length of the piping from the branch off the main, through the meter and to your house. Fill up a five gallon bucket from a hose bibb in your yard and note the amount of time required.

Check your findings against a pressure drop graph or online calculator. The pressure drop in a 3/4" or 1" copper pipe that's 500' long is significant, even at flow rates of just 5 GPM. The table linked below was the first graph I found. The delta P for PVC is probably higher, but I'm too lazy to find another graph. However, you can infer from the linked table that pressure drop for any piping material used is significant.

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/pressure-loss-copper-pipes-d_930.html

Your findings will verify that the problem is pressure drop due to distance. With the graph or online calculator you will be able to pinpoint the pressure drop at the flow rate measured with your five gallon bucket.

If you have to replace the piping, a trenchless machine as another poster suggested is the easiest and cheapest method to use. The piping can be installed in one day. I would go with a 1.5" line as the poster suggested.

The other, simpler alternative is a packaged surge, or storage, tank and pump that pressurizes your domestic water system. The tank wouldn't need to be very large, forty gallons would prolly be sufficient. Based on your comments, it sounds like the clothes washer isn't the only issue you have with your domestic water supply. Everyone will be happier with higher pressure, and it's certainly an easier solution. The unit I linked is $1,400. Not cheap, but it'll fix the problem.

http://www.supplyhouse.com/Amtrol-2...YokXHYN8PCGg6QwQtoC1QYp3tSAPD514aAqp3EALw_wcB
 
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3393RP said:
.... There's no need to do the investigations and calculations recommended by previous posters.
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3393RP said:
.
Check your findings against a pressure drop graph or online calculator.
.
.
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/pressure-loss-copper-pipes-d_930.html

Your findings will verify that the problem is pressure drop due to distance. With the graph or online calculator you will be able to pinpoint the pressure drop at the flow rate measured with your five gallon bucket.
Click to expand...

You are funny.
 
It's quite simple. Quite a few of the suggestions had no relationship to the problem. It's obvious the issue is caused by pressure drop due to the length of the supply lateral to the house.
 
3393RP said:
It's quite simple. Quite a few of the suggestions had no relationship to the problem. It's obvious the issue is caused by pressure drop due to the length of the supply lateral to the house.
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I'd say it isn't obvious at all. The chart you linked doesn't support your conclusion either.
 
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