Home electrics - dangerous or just shoddy?

bflynn

bflynn

Final Approach
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Brian Flynn
Most of the lights in our house don't match - the previous owners just put up whatever they felt like at the time, so I'm replacing them.

I pulled down the light in our closet yesterday and found this. The previous light was a fluorescent which they just pulled down and reused the wiring. Is it dangerous or just sloppy? (The angle doesn't show it, but the wires in the second image are far apart.)

Regardless, I can't put the new fixture up because it is low profile and requires space in the ceiling. Given the other side of this is attic insulation I don't want a big hole in the ceiling either.

image0.jpegimage1.jpeg
 
Not sure I understand - what is wrong with using existing wiring when installing a light fixture?

(Except for the fact that those wires should be capped if the circuit is live at any time)
 
Dangerous? Probably not. Up to code? No. You can buy a ceiling box that will recess into the drywall and run your electrical wire into. It has tabs that extend to grab onto the back side of the drywall to secure it. As long as your light fixture doesn't exceed the weight rating it will work fine (usually about 5 or 6lbs). Otherwise, go up in the attic space and install a ceiling box with a bracket/joist. I literally had the exact same thing when I pulled down a flush mount light fixture. Only the wires they used were speaker wire (basically lamp cord)! The stupidity is that it was 3' from a newer electrical junction box that they ran the cord to instead of just using romex.

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They also make these which have a hole-saw built into it so that it drills the hole for you.

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DaleB said:
I always love it when people carefully attach the ground wire to the bracket... that's not attached to anything.
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Hopefully there was some grounding via the light fixture attachment screws lol.
 
DaleB said:
I always love it when people carefully attach the ground wire to the bracket... that's not attached to anything.
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Some fixtures that I've seen instruct you to do that, then attach ground from the device to the bracket (like fixtures with multiple components, fan, light, etc)
 
SoonerAviator said:
Hopefully there was some grounding via the light fixture attachment screws lol.
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Since they were just screwed into drywall, unlikely. Most of the fixtures I've seen recently have been plastic boxes, so they're not grounded either.
 
SoonerAviator said:
Dangerous? Probably not. Up to code? No. You can buy a ceiling box that will recess into the drywall and run your electrical wire into. It has tabs that extend to grab onto the back side of the drywall to secure it. As long as your light fixture doesn't exceed the weight rating it will work fine (usually about 5 or 6lbs). Otherwise, go up in the attic space and install a ceiling box with a bracket/joist. I literally had the exact same thing when I pulled down a flush mount light fixture. Only the wires they used were speaker wire (basically lamp cord)! The stupidity is that it was 3' from a newer electrical junction box that they ran the cord to instead of just using romex.

View attachment 132025
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Perfect!
 
 
bflynn said:
Since they were just screwed into drywall, unlikely. Most of the fixtures I've seen recently have been plastic boxes, so they're not grounded either.
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Um, that bare wire in the Romex is (or at least should be if the Romex was run correctly) the return to ground back at the electrical panel.

If the device you're hanging on the bracket is designed to electrically bond to the bracket via the mounting screws, then the device is properly grounded.

If the device has internal ground leads, and those leads are properly connected to the bare Romex wire, then the device is properly grounded.

Tying the bare Romex wire to the bracket grounds the bracket. Doesn't matter if the bracket is mounted to drywall, plastic, or wood...it's the bare Romex wire providing the return to ground. Conversely, mounting the bracket onto some random metal building structure doesn't mean the bracket is electrically grounded, if that metal structure is not itself electrically bonded to ground somehow.
 
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jsstevens said:
If the light is heavy (seems unlikely in a closet), or if you run into this elsewhere, you can use one of these (installed from the room via the hole cut for the box).
It will hold a ceiling fan, no problem.

View attachment 132028
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I used a few of those over the years. My recollection was that cross tube is expanding so it fits easily into the hole, and it has two wood screws poking out each end, you feed it into the hole, expand it until the screws bite into the joists, then grab the shaft and twist so the screws go into the joists. When you’re done you can hang just about anything from that box.
 
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The box with the tabs is called a “remodel” box. Usually round for ceiling light.

The expanding bar type is a retrofit method usually for ceiling fans. They have a lot of leverage, seen people spread the joist and pop screws making a mess of sheet rock.

Sounds like you want low profile, as mentioned a low profile surface mount LED is the way to go. If those locations prevent securing to a joist, just use a Sheetrock anchor. Don’t really need remodel boxes since it’s not a switch loop or housing other leads.

Like I tell all the guys who do this stuff for me, remember to clinch your teeth so you don’t bite your tongue!
 
Code around here says no romex. All EMT conduit. So that little ground wire is actually connected to something.

The wafer/canless led lights are great. All my closets have motion activated canless led's
 
Bob Noel said:
but the next homeowner might not be paying attention and install a much heavier light fixture (don't know why it would be heavier) because there was a light there before and it must be ok...
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Sounds like a "them" problem lol.
 
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