Helping yourself to fuel.

[Sluggo63]

This was the scenario as presented.

Pilot says he and his wife returned to his plane to head home and found an envelope with cash and a note on the glare shield. Apparently another pilot took 10 gallons of fuel from his plane and left double what that would cost. I guess because fuel wasn't available when he was leaving.

No dying family members, no organ transplants. Just "I took 10 gallons, here's some money."

Don't touch my s*** (things) without asking me and I won't touch yours. That's kindergarten stuff. Common courtesy. I don't care if my neighbor who I've known for a decade walks into my shed and grabs my gas can to fill his lawnmower. That's cool. It's not the same.

I can't think of any "emergency" that I would have to take off RIGHT NOW and now be able to wait and figure out how to get fuel. And if I could conjure up some dire need to steal gas from another plane sitting on the ramp, I would be sure to leave all my contact information and a detailed note explaining EXACTLY what was so dire that I couldn't wait.

Otherwise, he's just this guy:

 

[Piper18O]

Pilot says he and his wife returned to his plane to head home and found an envelope with cash and a note on the glare shield. Apparently another pilot took 10 gallons of fuel from his plane and left double what that would cost. I guess because fuel wasn't available when he was leaving.

No dying family members, no organ transplants. Just "I took 10 gallons, here's some money."

Don't touch my s*** (things) without asking me and I won't touch yours. That's kindergarten stuff. Common courtesy. I don't care if my neighbor who I've known for a decade walks into my shed and grabs my gas can to fill his lawnmower. That's cool. It's not the same.

I can't think of any "emergency" that I would have to take off RIGHT NOW and now be able to wait and figure out how to get fuel. And if I could conjure up some dire need to steal gas from another plane sitting on the ramp, I would be sure to leave all my contact information and a detailed note explaining EXACTLY what was so dire that I couldn't wait.

The original post did not explain what the note said, only that there was a note and there was money. Everything else is just conjecture.

 

[kath]

Don't mess with my plane without my permission, especially with the fuel. The compensation is irrelevant.

I once put chocks under another plane's wheels. The Bonanza had parked way too close to me, and had not tied down or chocked or anything. They were parked upwind from me on a windy day. So I took my travel chocks and put them under the Bonanza's main wheel, and left a note saying something like "I chocked your wheel" so that if they came back they wouldn't try to just taxi away. I felt *deeply conflicted* about this, hemming and hawing to myself for quite a while about whether to do it at all, because everything I have learned about aviation screamed that this (even this, this seemingly harmless thing) is transgressive. Deeply transgressive. Even though it would clearly benefit both of us. (And I've had a stranger chock *my* wheels once on a windy day, out of concern for my plane's safety, and I was very grateful to the guy who did it.)

A culture of aviation safety depends on reducing the number of unknowns for a pilot in command. Inspections and pre-flight checks help him or her to know the state of the aircraft before flight, but there are many slices of the Swiss Cheese. I understand and share the "aviators help each other out" attitude. But a "don't mess with others' aircraft" culture is essential for safety generally. The "taker" should have established contact before taking.

 

[MBDiagMan]

No because your intentionally taking my whole thoughts out of context, so I’ll let you judge who is ignoring common sense.

 

[weilke]

That's almost as egregious as cutting a donut and leaving 1/2 in the box.

 

[Piper18O]

No because your intentionally taking my whole thoughts out of context, so I’ll let you judge who is ignoring common sense.

Touching my airplane, however, even though an extremely remote possibility DOES pose such a chance. DONT TOUCH.

Seems you have made yourself pretty clear. Or did you mean that it is okay to touch your plane, but only in circumstances that would be beneficial to you alone? Seems that the respect you are demanding only goes one way. You want others to respect your plight if there is a chance damage may be done to your plane, but there is absolutely no room in your heart for the respect of the plight of others. My first post on this subject had to do with the thinking of others, and not just yourself. If you go back and re-read this thread, you will note that not all the information needed, was given in the original post. How each one of us viewed it, says a lot about our individual thoughts. If you only think about yourself, you will view things differently than if you tried to put yourself in the other person's shoes.

 

[Piper18O]

This was the scenario as presented.

Saw this on another forum and had to share. Pilot says he and his wife returned to his plane to head home and found an envelope with cash and a note on the glare shield. Apparently another pilot took 10 gallons of fuel from his plane and left double what that would cost. I guess because fuel wasn't available when he was leaving.

No dying family members, no organ transplants. Just "I took 10 gallons, here's some money."

Actually it doesn't even say that the note said "I took 10 gallons, here's some money." All it said was that there was a note and some money. According to the OP it more than likely was 10 dollars and double the going fuel rate in money. It does not say exactly what, or in how much detail the note went into, as far as the plight of the "fuel buyer." If this was just an experiment in human ethics for everybody at POA, It says a lot about each one of us and what we think of first, more specifically ourselves or or fellow man, or maybe at least how quickly we ponder the plight of others.

 

[Flying Doc]

Thanks for trying to look at things from a more practical viewpoint while still being willing to look at others viewpoints with an open mind. Still, though, in my mind, I think we are missing the point. Do we want to live in a purely legalistic world? When we decide to paint everything in black or white, without regard for humanity, I think we might just find ourselves living in a sad cold world. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." If I have an emergency, even if only in my own mind, and I have to borrow 5 or 10 gallons of fuel in order to prevent my disaster, I would absolutely be as careful as I could to drain the fuel from your sumps so as not to cause any problem. I would then tell you about what I felt I had to do because of my own perceived emergency, make just compensation, and leave you a way to get a hold of me if you determined that you were not fairly compensated. Once you read my note, I would hope that you would be able to put yourself in my shoes and would show some understanding and compassion. Once the ability to show compassion becomes the exception instead of the rule, I fear we then will all be living in misery.

"Legalistic" is only a minor point in this threat. I don't think most care about the legal crap other than to add to the point of this being a safety issue. Taking my fuel and potentially causing me a disaster in order to prevent your "disaster" is completely selfish. But it seems that many here think its ok so I am not going to convince you otherwise. I just need to lock my plane and keep it in a hangar. I have 3 small kids and I would take your action as a direct threat to the well being of my family. Call me, ask me for the gas and I will give it to you for free. But touch my aircraft without permission and we will have issues. You mention compassion? It is clear you are using compassion in this argument to justify the action and distract from the reckless action taken. But a pilot that finds themselves without gas is somewhat reckless to begin with...so its not surprising that they would take gas and place another pilot in danger. And its not surprising that they would not understand the impact they have on the other person or care. Typical antisocial behavior. To be clear I am not referring to you...were just having a fun discussion here.....but to the action taken.

 

[Piper18O]

"Legalistic" is only a minor point in this threat. I don't think most care about the legal crap other than to add to the point of this being a safety issue. Taking my fuel and potentially causing me a disaster in order to prevent your "disaster" is completely selfish. But it seems that many here think its ok so I am not going to convince you otherwise. I just need to lock my plane and keep it in a hangar. I have 3 small kids and I would take your action as a direct threat to the well being of my family. Call me, ask me for the gas and I will give it to you for free. But touch my aircraft without permission and we will have issues. You mention compassion? It is clear you are using compassion in this argument to justify the action and distract from the reckless action taken. But a pilot that finds themselves without gas is somewhat reckless to begin with...so its not surprising that they would take gas and place another pilot in danger. And its not surprising that they would not understand the impact they have on the other person or care. Typical antisocial behavior. To be clear I am not referring to you...were just having a fun discussion here.....but to the action taken.

I agree generally with most of what I think you are trying to say, but I do have a couple of things I would like to add/clarify. First of all, I don't believe compassion allows for the justification of the act. I do believe compassion allows for the forgiveness of the act. I am certainly not condoning draining gas from any airplane. I actually hope that never happens. My hope is that when life like this happens, I wish that we all could try a little harder to take into consideration the plight of others before we go off half cocked. Secondly, I don't think I was being reckless when I ran into much stiffer headwinds than were forecast. (see my first post on this thread on page 2) I was trying to be safe when I stopped short of my intended fuel stop in Louisiana a number of years ago. I just wish it would have been you at that airport in Louisiana a number of years ago! I would have been glad to pay you double, as long as you would take my check! lol

 

[RyanShort1]

While some may consider this theft, there is even in the old law that forbids theft, the requirement to leave the edges of the field for the poor and needy. While this pilot may not have been needy, and maybe wasn't the brightest, it does seem like said pilot wasn't just outright stealing otherwise no money would have been left. I've been the recipient of 10 gals of fuel from an ag operation before and I hope I'd be willing to do the same for someone else in distress.

 

[MBDiagMan]

Seems you have made yourself pretty clear. Or did you mean that it is okay to touch your plane, but only in circumstances that would be beneficial to you alone? Seems that the respect you are demanding only goes one way. You want others to respect your plight if there is a chance damage may be done to your plane, but there is absolutely no room in your heart for the respect of the plight of others. My first post on this subject had to do with the thinking of others, and not just yourself. If you go back and re-read this thread, you will note that not all the information needed, was given in the original post. How each one of us viewed it, says a lot about our individual thoughts. If you only think about yourself, you will view things differently than if you tried to put yourself in the other person's shoes.

I have no respect for others? You obviously are reading only the things I wrote that support your position. You will be hard pressed to find someone that helps others more than I do. Although I appreciate others helping me, I don’t want anyone doing things to my plane unless authorized.

I am extremely careful when I tie down outside away from home. If I am not, I accept consequences for my own actions. How about yourself?

 

[MBDiagMan]

Actually it doesn't even say that the note said "I took 10 gallons, here's some money." All it said was that there was a note and some money. According to the OP it more than likely was 10 dollars and double the going fuel rate in money. It does not say exactly what, or in how much detail the note went into, as far as the plight of the "fuel buyer." If this was just an experiment in human ethics for everybody at POA, It says a lot about each one of us and what we think of first, more specifically ourselves or or fellow man, or maybe at least how quickly we ponder the plight of others.

Good point! I would have done whatever necessary to help the guy had I been there. Even though he did I consider selfish and disrespectful I would be pleased if everything turned out well and he ended up safely at his destination. That, however, doesn’t mean he was not being self centered and disrespectful.

Someone who thinks that what he did was all peachy keen apparently has limited respect for others private property as well.

If anyone finds themselves needing fuel at our airport and there’s no one around, use the self serve pump. If you’re not responsible enough to have a credit card call the number on the door. Even if it’s 2AM, the airport manager will cheerfully come and help. If I’m there and you need help, I will do everything I can to help you.

 

[MBDiagMan]

While some may consider this theft, there is even in the old law that forbids theft, the requirement to leave the edges of the field for the poor and needy. While this pilot may not have been needy, and maybe wasn't the brightest, it does seem like said pilot wasn't just outright stealing otherwise no money would have been left. I've been the recipient of 10 gals of fuel from an ag operation before and I hope I'd be willing to do the same for someone else in distress.

It’s always refreshing to see that there are others who have read the Old Testament. I try to offer gleaning whenever possible.

You are correct that the guy wasn’t stealing, but for me it’s not a money issue.

I think you’re the only one on this thread that knows I am someone that wants to help others.

Take care Ryan!

 

[Matthew Rogers]

It’s always refreshing to see that there are others who have read the Old Testament. I try to offer gleaning whenever possible.

You are correct that the guy wasn’t stealing, but for me it’s not a money issue.

I think you’re the only one on this thread that knows I am someone that wants to help others.

Take care Ryan!

Old Testament?! You mean the book that tells you to participate in human sacrifice, says a man is worth 50 sheckles and a woman is worth only 30 sheckles, discriminates against those with disabilities, doesn’t want any to sit where a woman has sit when menstruating, don’t mix fibers in clothing, don’t boil a baby goat in its mother’s milk, don’t kill a burglar during the day, don’t eat owls...... Yeah that book is the one to look to for rules.

 

[Sluggo63]

It says a lot about each one of us and what we think of first, more specifically ourselves or or fellow man, or maybe at least how quickly we ponder the plight of others.

I think it says a lot more about the person taking the fuel. Why is he getting a pass? Why didn't he consider the plight of the person who he took the fuel from.

All these hypotheticals... what if the plane that the fuel was removed from was an Angel flight and now by taking the fuel they can't make their destination non-stop. What if that pilot who is 10 gallons low was trying to make it to see a dying loved one and now has to make an extra stop? Why are all the drastic scenarios fall in favor of the thief rather than the victim?

 

[RyanShort1]

Old Testament?! You mean the book that tells you to participate in human sacrifice, says a man is worth 50 sheckles and a woman is worth only 30 sheckles, discriminates against those with disabilities, doesn’t want any to sit where a woman has sit when menstruating, don’t mix fibers in clothing, don’t boil a baby goat in its mother’s milk, don’t kill a burglar during the day, don’t eat owls...... Yeah that book is the one to look to for rules.

Easy tiger. Some of that is pretty out of context.

 

[Daleandee]

Easy tiger. Some of that is pretty out of context.

All of it was out of context. Except a man be born again ...

I'll leave this alone as there are rules that should not be violated.

 

[geezer]

How this "Taking a little gas" would effect me at the airport that I have flown from most of my flying years, average rules and conditions.

We have a curfew that ends at 6 AM, and the gas pumps open after 8 AM. The pumps close at 6 PM. Average of historical service.

I always go to the airport to fully fuel the plane the afternoon BEFORE the planned departure, and do a complete prefilght to be sure the morning preflight has no surprises, AND LEAVE A NOTE, saying that I have scheduled the flight and fueled the plane..

My Cessna 172 is not real fast, and leaving at EXACTLY 6 AM allows me to reach my usual destination about 6 PM, if all goes well.

If I come to the airport at 5:30 with family and luggage to be ready for departure at precisely 6 AM, all preflight and engine checks done, and the tanks are not full:

Plan A,I wait until the gas guy opens up at about 8, top up with a known fuel load, and leave after again preflighting and doing an engine runup, close to 9 AM.

I am now 3 hours late, ETA is now 9 PM, IF THE WIND IS AVERAGE, even later if more headwind than average.

Plan B, depart short of fuel, land much earlier in the trip at an airport that I have not studied or previously used, and change all my flight plans and refueling points. The extra stop will increase my travel time about an hour, as that is my average lost time.

I will be no less than an hour late at destination, and if there is confusion at the unfamiliar airports getting refueled and the new weather briefing and preparing the new flight plan, more like 2 hours late. That puts me at 8 PM instead of 6 PM Any head wind will make that even later. Since this flight is westbound, the probability of higher than average headwinds is significant.

I am clearly in the group that insists that removing ANYTHING from my plane is a serious violation of the law and ethical behavior.

Several of my co owners use the same techniques to get out early for trips to Michigan, Wisconsin, Missouri, Nebraska, and Florida.

Many years ago, one of the partners went to the airport to get night current and take a friend sightseeing, saw the note that the plane was scheduled and fueled for an early departure, he flew anyway, and added a note to the piece of paper, that he had flown 45 minutes. The resulting serial delays, including obtaining a new departure window for an IFR flight plan (No radio service at the field, pre cell phone) put him 2 hours late at his destination.

The offending partner was terminated for lacking proper judgement and poor consideration for his partners.

That sort of behavior is not acceptable even for friends, if you do not get permission first.

 

[Flying Doc]

I agree generally with most of what I think you are trying to say, but I do have a couple of things I would like to add/clarify. First of all, I don't believe compassion allows for the justification of the act. I do believe compassion allows for the forgiveness of the act. I am certainly not condoning draining gas from any airplane. I actually hope that never happens. My hope is that when life like this happens, I wish that we all could try a little harder to take into consideration the plight of others before we go off half cocked. Secondly, I don't think I was being reckless when I ran into much stiffer headwinds than were forecast. (see my first post on this thread on page 2) I was trying to be safe when I stopped short of my intended fuel stop in Louisiana a number of years ago. I just wish it would have been you at that airport in Louisiana a number of years ago! I would have been glad to pay you double, as long as you would take my check! lol

I get it that sucks. We all hate strong headwinds I would hope most of us here would bend over backwards to help a fellow aviator. Some jerk not taking a check...thats shameful. If you can afford to fly you can afford the minimal risk of a bad check. And its not like you asked for the gas in the Target Parking lol. LOL. Its not the end of the world what that individual allegedly did... but it makes for a good discussion on what people think is ok. I enjoy seeing everyones perspective.

 

[Flying Doc]

Old Testament?! You mean the book that tells you to participate in human sacrifice, says a man is worth 50 sheckles and a woman is worth only 30 sheckles, discriminates against those with disabilities, doesn’t want any to sit where a woman has sit when menstruating, don’t mix fibers in clothing, don’t boil a baby goat in its mother’s milk, don’t kill a burglar during the day, don’t eat owls...... Yeah that book is the one to look to for rules.

Then there is the FAR AIM manual. 1000s of pages of how not to feed your cessna to the ground or to another cessna....and if you do they can say you didn't follow the aviation bible. At least the old testament is entertaining to read. I think some wives are not worth 30 sheckels especially if they dont know how to get the plane and kids loaded for timely departure. Hopefully they addressed wife costs in the "New Testament". I have not read the New Testament because I am still only 1/4 of the way through the FAR AIM.