Helping fund a warbird, ideas?

[Skymac]

Maybe a complex question but something I’ve been curious about. Many warbirds fall under different certification standards. I fly a Stearman which has a standard classification but others say a T28 is usually experimental-exhibition only, vs some in limited category, etc...

What the basis to be able to generate money in giving rides if you own one of these precious birds? Not looking for a profit, jsut something to help offset operating costs, a break even if you will.

Do you create an organization and sell yearly memberships that include a free ride in the airplane with a membership, etc etc? Too many people are selling experiences or rides in these birds for there to not be a way but I don’t know where to start in learning more. The pilot would be commercially rated with a cfi as well, again, how would one give dual either if it is not a standard aircraft. Is it possibly to change the category?

 

[azblackbird]

What the basis to be able to generate money in giving rides if you own one of these precious birds? Not looking for a profit, jsut something to help offset operating costs, a break even if you will.

Ya gotta go old-school. Look for all the county fairs going on in your area. Fly over the town and do a few barrel rolls, loops and hammerheads. Set down on the fairgrounds somewhere, hang your sign out and you’ll have a crowd wanting rides in no time.

 

[Skymac]

That’s not the issue but keeping those pesky feds happy is my question. Ha

 

[Velocity173]

I believe these guys are setup as a 501C with their T-28s. Contact them and see how they pull it off.
http://mofts.org/

 

[Geosync]

Just keep in mind that you may be un-insurable if you are giving rides to the public. Most insurance companies won't touch you with a 10 foot poll. Just look into it before getting everything else in place first, then learn the hard way the day before you're about to start ops.

 

[mondtster]

The reason for the difference in the type of airworthiness certificate issued is due to the lack of type certificate for some military airplanes. When there is no type certificate you’re not going to get a standard airworthiness certificate.

As far as how rides are offered in such equipment, I don’t know. My guess would be via a letter of authorization.

 

[ateamer]

If you want to fund warbirds, you could start some type of a Commemorative organization that keeps the planes in the Air and will serve as a maintenance and operations Force.

 

[jbDC9]

If it’s a T-28 you’re thinking about, most T-28s are Experimental Exhibition, and I’d say that chances changing it to Standard Category are slim to none.

Most of the operators out there selling warbird rides are doing it in Standard AT-6s or Limited category bomber/fighter types, as in P-51s or B-17s. Limiteds require a FAA (6802?) program. The Collings Foundation sells rides in a Skyraider, A-4, F-4... obviously not Standard, but somehow they have the FAA approval to do it.

IMHO, a good way to lower the cost of operation is a partnership. Find a few trustworthy guys, find a good airplane and go for it. While you can’t make money or break even with it, your overall costs are lowered a good bit. About the only way to get “paid” with it is to bring it to a few airshows; get some fuel, a hotel room and perhaps an appearance fee to help with the maintenance fund. My personal experience; I’m part of a group of 5 guys that own a T-28D; gotta pay for your own fuel/oil and contribute to the mx fund, but everything else is split 5 ways. We’ve done a few air show or fly-in events and had “free” gas. It’s still not cheap, but there’s no way in hell that I’d want to own a T-28 on my own...

 

[Skymac]

If it’s a T-28 you’re thinking about, most T-28s are Experimental Exhibition, and I’d say that chances changing it to Standard Category are slim to none.

Most of the operators out there selling warbird rides are doing it in Standard AT-6s or Limited category bomber/fighter types, as in P-51s or B-17s. Limiteds require a FAA (6802?) program. The Collings Foundation sells rides in a Skyraider, A-4, F-4... obviously not Standard, but somehow they have the FAA approval to do it.

IMHO, a good way to lower the cost of operation is a partnership. Find a few trustworthy guys, find a good airplane and go for it. While you can’t make money or break even with it, your overall costs are lowered a good bit. About the only way to get “paid” with it is to bring it to a few airshows; get some fuel, a hotel room and perhaps an appearance fee to help with the maintenance fund. My personal experience; I’m part of a group of 5 guys that own a T-28D; gotta pay for your own fuel/oil and contribute to the mx fund, but everything else is split 5 ways. We’ve done a few air show or fly-in events and had “free” gas. It’s still not cheap, but there’s no way in hell that I’d want to own a T-28 on my own...

Thanks for the reply. I am tossing around a T28, and the Collins foundation was something I had thought of.

 

[Eric Stoltz]

At 50ish GPH for the -B model - - - and a field full of spares...
Sign me up!

 

[jbDC9]

At 50ish GPH for the -B model - - - and a field full of spares...
Sign me up!

But, but, it ain’t that bad! Cruising at 11.5k and 200 KTAS, the fuel burn is only 43-ish per hour. That’s cheap! Riiiight. But monkeying around down low doing pattern work, it’s pretty thirsty. It’s certainly not a daily flyer considering the fuel/oil burn and just the work involved to go fly for an hour or two. But, it’s just so bitchin’ cool to fly...

 

[Skip Miller]

Thanks for the reply. I am tossing around a T28, and the Collins foundation was something I had thought of.

Please note the correct spelling: Collings. I'd hate to see you get off on the wrong foot by spelling their name wrong.

-Skip

 

[Ventucky Red]

Just keep in mind that you may be un-insurable if you are giving rides to the public. Most insurance companies won't touch you with a 10 foot poll. Just look into it before getting everything else in place first, then learn the hard way the day before you're about to start ops.

Goes back to that saying I heard once... "the FAA will tell you what you can't do, and the insurance company will tell you what you can do..."

 

[Skymac]

But, but, it ain’t that bad! Cruising at 11.5k and 200 KTAS, the fuel burn is only 43-ish per hour. That’s cheap! Riiiight. But monkeying around down low doing pattern work, it’s pretty thirsty. It’s certainly not a daily flyer considering the fuel/oil burn and just the work involved to go fly for an hour or two. But, it’s just so bitchin’ cool to fly...

Similar cruise to a Baron 58 and as you say, way more bitchin’, maintenance cost is probably not that much higher either from what I have read and talked about than a Baron HAHA!

It may just come down to a 7711 Form for authorization. At any rate just trying to think things through prior. As mentioned, certainly not a daily flyer.