Help Save Light GA at KHPN (Westchester, NY)

[rocketflyer84]

The ask:
Please drop a quick note to HPNMasterPlancomments@westchestergov.com and ask that light GA is better included in the airport's master planning process, and to ensure access to the light GA facilities is preserved. If you've personally used KHPN, please state that and say why it's important to you personally that light GA access is preserved.

The deadline for sending in comments is August 17th.

Why is this needed?:
Had some interesting and distressing conversations over the weekend with some light GA pilots at KHPN (Westchester County, NY) regarding a flurry of efforts that pose a real threat to light GA at the airport.

For decades the Westchester County (which owns the airport) was very supportive, and even protective, of maintaining a strong light GA presence at the airport and there is a strong contingent of local light GA pilots and aircraft based there.

However, the current administration has done a total 180 and has started putting forth a range of initiatives that are seriously threatening the ability of light GA to use the airport. In short, if the plans go through it will mostly turn the airport into Teterboro which, if you're familiar with the history of the region, completely pushed out light GA in favor of just corporate and charter jets.

Those efforts include:

• Quietly striking provisions in one of the FBO's leases that required them to provide facilities for light GA on the field. That FBO (Million Air) almost immediately launched huge construction project that will eventually eliminate most/all light GA facilities and replace them with facilities for corporate and charter jets. The future for light GA pilots there looks very uncertain and they're starting to get very anxious.
  
  
• The remaining light GA bits of the airport are also under proposal for drastic changes that would significantly limit the size and scope of facilities (see master plan below).
  
  
• The County is currently plotting to 'privatize' the airport by handing it over to a private equity firm, which is then free to make changes to make more profit (today as a public facility the airport is essentially a non-profit and thus not motivated purely by making money). In public meetings to date it was revealed that this would give the investors further ability to modify leases and airport policies to further pave over facilities for light GA with those catering to charters and corporates. The County Executive tried to sneak a no-bid privatization deal in at the last second last year, but the legislature halted it. The County is now going through a longer RFP process.
  
  
• The County recently released a draft 'master plan' outlining a transformation that would essentially see it transformed into Teterboro, with the light GA facilities being decimated including removal of all the light-GA tie down spaces. All that would be left would be very expensive hangars for light GA planes--and because many of those existing hangers would be destroyed to make way for more jets the new ones proposed to be built wouldn't even meaningfully increase the capacity of these hangars, just replace those bulldozed elsewhere. It's worth noting too that those existing light GA tie-downs today are hardly cheap. I think the going rate is something like $450 a month. Hangar space is many multiples of that.
  
  
• The master plan was developed mostly in secret and light GA was almost entirely excluded from the process. The County refused to release meaningful details about what was in the works, even with press, legislators and others pressing for transparency on the process. In the midst of the airport 'privatization' proposal process the County just dropped the plans on the County website. These plans would make a private investor drool in excitement as the plans are all about how the airport could alter facilities to make more money. At a public hearing last week (the first true opportunity for public input, which was held after the plans were already prepared, not before like the FAA asks for) hundreds of local residents turned up in anger as one person after another stood up and passionately expressed anger at not being given opportunity to have input into the planning process--there are many other interests furious too, not just light GA.

This whole thing is a real shame. It's another example of politicians just trying to quietly sneak something in to make some quick money ignoring virtually everything else. Like so much threatening light GA these days, we need to speak up and make sure our voice is heard.

If you could drop a quick note to HPNMasterPlancomments@westchestergov.com emphasizing the importance of light GA as part of an airport community and the need to better include light GA stakeholders in the planning process you could really help save this vital light GA asset in the New York area. Thanks!

Additional Background
Graphical View of Plans:
The Proposed layout (last page of this summary)

Current View of the GA Airport Area

Note how all the outdoor light GA tie-downs go away. What's left is a consolidated section of hangars. The Million Air site (right side) is essentially devoid of light GA with everything consolidated over on what is now the Ross West site. All told over half the footprint for light GA disappears and all that is left is expensive hangar space. There are a lot more details out there than can be quickly summarized here, but it's not good for light GA.

Sample Press Coverage:
Wall Street Journal - Westchester County’s Airport Plan Hits Some Turbulence
Residents rip proposed master plan for Westchester County Airport
Westchester's secret airport plan remains under wraps
Rob Astorino's fancy dance on Westchester airport's master plan

 

[MassPilot]

That really sucks. My parents and my brother live in Westchester. If someone were to come up with a template for a letter to representatives there I could ask them to send it.

 

[mscard88]

Flown many airliner flights in and out of there. That place is a mess, at least the terminal and terminal ramp are. Usually arrived and had to wait on a taxiway for a gate to open up. The terminal itself is congested and is really like LGA on a smaller scale. On layovers sometimes we'd have to park the CRJ on Millionaire's ramp, after deplaning passengers at the terminal, and that took a bit of maneuvering on the ramp to get in there. That airport is just plain congested and I hope y'all are successful in keeping GA there. A lot of wealthy folks in that area who complain about noise from the jets and then get in a Gulfstream to head for Naples or W. Palm, or on an airline flight. Used to see Trump's jet there, think he may have had a 737 then.

 

[rocketflyer84]

Flown many airliner flights in and out of there. That place is a mess, at least the terminal and terminal ramp are. Usually arrived and had to wait on a taxiway for a gate to open up. The terminal itself is congested and is really like LGA on a smaller scale. On layovers sometimes we'd have to park the CRJ on Millionaire's ramp, after deplaning passengers at the terminal, and that took a bit of maneuvering on the ramp to get in there. That airport is just plain congested and I hope y'all are successful in keeping GA there. A lot of wealthy folks in that area who complain about noise from the jets and then get in a Gulfstream to head for Naples or W. Palm, or on an airline flight. Used to see Trump's jet there, think he may have had a 737 then.

Thanks. Yes, there's a whole additional side of the story relating to the airliner side of the airport. I was (naturally) just interested here in the light GA story. Residents have been battling to limit commercial air traffic for decades. There's currently a county law limiting commercial traffic to 240 passengers per half hour (the County can't limit traffic at the airport as that's Federal territory, but they can limit use of the commercial terminal building).

There have also been longstanding efforts to limit jet traffic early in the morning or late at night. At one point, annoyed with airlines scheduling too many early morning flights an earlier administration of the County literally tried to lock the parking Garage from entry until later in the morning--essentially making it impossible for people to park if they had an early flight. After a battle with the FAA the County had to relent on that.

The airline activity doesn't impact light GA much and it only accounts for a small percentage (~10%) of takeoffs and landings. The real threat to light GA there is a desire to boot out light GA in favor of Gulfstreams--essentially turning the place into Teterboro.

So far as those residents are concerned that would replace, relatively quiet, single engine piston traffic with much louder jet traffic. The light GA folks also mostly respect the voluntary noise restrictions that are in place regarding late night and early morning flights, whereas the charter and corporate flights blatantly ignore them so this would also mean more overnight jet traffic that gets the general public up in arms.

 

[mscard88]

Not to mention the large helicopters flying between NYC and HPN dropping off and picking up business and rich folks! Actually watched a helo once land adjacent to a Gulfstream and drop off a woman who then boarded the Gulfstream.

And no Sac & eman, she wasn't a hooker. Well as far as I knew anyway, which....oh never mind.

 

[James331]

Done.

It's disgusting when people try to limit access to fields built with funds from the public.

 

[labbadabba]

I started my training at HPN. There's a very large flying club on the field and there are quite a few GA hangars that are chock full. MillionAir has always been sketchy. As you mentioned they had to maintain a piston training fleet as part of their agreement with the county. So they have 4 SR22s sitting there renting at $300 an hour. I'll send an e-mail. Very fond memories of that place and a fantastic GA airport. It's also the only NYC airport that's easily accessible without paying a toll.

 

[redtail]

Only been there two or three times back in '98 as a student. Once with my CFI and I think twice solo (from TEB).
Speaking of Teterboro, back then it was still 'relatively' light GA friendly with a couple of schools on the field. But that didn't last much longer.

So I understand your predicament. Good luck.

 

[Bill Watson]

I've been using KHPN occasionally but regularly for years. It's my favorite way to get to Queens and Manhatten. However this last trip had me following Hertz to Millionaire. I missed the old FBO... good looking desk team at Millionaire but learning. Line crew topped off so 'aggressively' the fuel venting caused them to declare a leak and leave a bucket underneath. Pouring rain on departure but no umbrellas in sight. Just more chaos than normal. Back to Republic I guess


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[FlyBoyAndy]

Are the tower folks currently discouraging GA folks using the airport? I ask because I was thinking about flying there next week. They are always rushing you and out of there anyways, but I was hoping for a good experience this time.

 

[rocketflyer84]

Are the tower folks currently discouraging GA folks using the airport? I ask because I was thinking about flying there next week. They are always rushing you and out of there anyways, but I was hoping for a good experience this time.

In the times I've been there the tower was very accommodating--no issues there. The one trick is that they prefer you call up NY Approach and get a code, who will then pass you off to the tower. Inbound it operates like an unofficial Class C in that way. The frequency isn't consistent either, but 120.80 usually works. Just one of those things you're supposed to know but it's not written down anywhere--or even mentioned in the ATIS!?!

 

[MassPilot]

Thanks. Yes, there's a whole additional side of the story relating to the airliner side of the airport. I was (naturally) just interested here in the light GA story. Residents have been battling to limit commercial air traffic for decades. There's currently a county law limiting commercial traffic to 240 passengers per half hour (the County can't limit traffic at the airport as that's Federal territory, but they can limit use of the commercial terminal building).

There have also been longstanding efforts to limit jet traffic early in the morning or late at night. At one point, annoyed with airlines scheduling too many early morning flights an earlier administration of the County literally tried to lock the parking Garage from entry until later in the morning--essentially making it impossible for people to park if they had an early flight. After a battle with the FAA the County had to relent on that.

The airline activity doesn't impact light GA much and it only accounts for a small percentage (~10%) of takeoffs and landings. The real threat to light GA there is a desire to boot out light GA in favor of Gulfstreams--essentially turning the place into Teterboro.

So far as those residents are concerned that would replace, relatively quiet, single engine piston traffic with much louder jet traffic. The light GA folks also mostly respect the voluntary noise restrictions that are in place regarding late night and early morning flights, whereas the charter and corporate flights blatantly ignore them so this would also mean more overnight jet traffic that gets the general public up in arms.

So maybe the best way to tackle this problem is to spread the word to as many airport neighbors as possible that these decisions may dramatically increase the noise.

 

[MassPilot]

In the times I've been there the tower was very accommodating--no issues there. The one trick is that they prefer you call up NY Approach and get a code, who will then pass you off to the tower. The frequency isn't consistent either, but 120.80 usually works. Just one of those things you're supposed to know but it's not written down anywhere--or even mentioned in the ATIS!?!

Don't you also have to call clearance delivery before a VFR departure. I haven't been there yet, but I hear it operates like a Class C even though it's a Class D.

 

[rocketflyer84]

Don't you also have to call clearance delivery before a VFR departure. I haven't been there yet, but I hear it operates like a Class C even though it's a Class D.

No. It's just like any other Class D on departure--although if you want flight following or such you can call up clearance delivery and they'll get you setup with a code while still on the ground.

Flew down the Hudson corridor in the Bravo once departing from there and clearance delivery at the tower hooked us up with everything on the ground. When we departed and handed off the NY Approach the controller immediately just cleared us into the Bravo down the river so worked out really well.

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

I suppose the FAA grant assurances do not include maintaining inexpensive access to fuel/tiedowns/hangars/self-serve pumps/nearby walk-through airport gate access/car parking?
(I think it should) I posted about this a few days ago, regarding my (favorable) experience at Kansas City downtown KMKC.
(Or maybe KHPN does not have FAA grants)

 

[rocketflyer84]

I suppose the FAA grant assurances do not include maintaining inexpensive access to fuel/tiedowns/hangars/self-serve pumps/nearby walk-through airport gate access/car parking?
(I think it should) I posted about this a few days ago, regarding my (favorable) experience at Kansas City downtown KMKC.
(Or maybe KHPN does not have FAA grants)

I think that's an avenue some are investigating. I do know that the current light GA facilities were built using proceeds from a previous PFC (passenger facility charge) setup specifically to pay for improving light GA facilities. I've heard that too is being looked into as it seems the current plans have completely ignored that history. If that has legal implications is a good question.

 

[James331]

...Pouring rain on departure but no umbrellas in sight. ...

What! They didn't have a complementary umbrella for you and you got....wet? OMG!

I hope it didn't damage your loafers

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

Typical scenario is: Small quiet airport desperate for business promotes light- GA or the small guy, and we want the airport to survive so pilots do what they can to help it. Then there is some growth and all of a sudden the fbo's get a taste of the jet-crowd's money......and they don't have time for the little guy anymore. No good deed....

 

[JOhnH]

I'm flying in to KHPN on Friday,
$7.00+ fuel and $40/night, plus $5 landing, plus $5 facility fee . . .

I don't plan on flying in there very often after that. I don't care if they shut the place down. After my Sunday departure.

 

[CMongoose]

I flew in this morning. My favorite way to get into the city (easy transfer to the Metro North to Grand Central). @JOhnH Ross West has lower parking fees. I think the fuel is about the same though.

Aside from the cost I've found everyone there super accommodating, but cost is what will kill it for small GA. Thanks for the heads up. I'll send my comments.

 

[James331]

Kinda city close, I prefer Licoln Park N07, not controlled, cool vibe, no fees, great little indoor/outdoor bar/cafe, $4.89 for 100LL. Easy access without TSA BS.

 

[FlyBoyAndy]

Are there any non tower controlled airports close to KHPN if I didn't want to go into there?

 

[rocketflyer84]

Are there any non tower controlled airports close to KHPN if I didn't want to go into there?

Nothing nearby. Closest options would be over in NJ (like Lincoln above) but that's just not practical for many and of course for local pilots if KHPN kicks out light GA then that's a really bad situation as there are no nearby alternatives. One would have to travel across the river to NJ, over to Long Island or well into CT to find anything else.

Saving light GA at KHPN is really important for that population. Thanks to those that have written in comments and for others please take a moment to do so!

I fear this is the 'new normal.' Today it's KHPN, tomorrow it could be your airport. We need to stick up for each other.

 

[Bill Watson]

Are the tower folks currently discouraging GA folks using the airport? I ask because I was thinking about flying there next week. They are always rushing you and out of there anyways, but I was hoping for a good experience this time.

Things have always been fast around there. I probably had my worse 'missed call resulting in a public scolding' there but it was over 30 years ago and pre-headset(!).

Now I go in and out with an IFR clearance except for an occasional corridor run. The controllers are cool but busy and I get the feeling a lot of their work is on ground lines coordinating with NY Approach.

On a couple of occasions I've experienced some very long waits for takeoff clearance right along side a lot of idling turbine equipment. I don't know when rush hour is for NY Approach but I know it's better not to be there then. It's a busy airport underneath some even busier airspace.

I'm flying in to KHPN on Friday,
$7.00+ fuel and $40/night, plus $5 landing, plus $5 facility fee . . .

I don't plan on flying in there very often after that. I don't care if they shut the place down. After my Sunday departure.

That can be the cheapest part of a trip to the Apple (which is why I don't care if they shut NYC down)

What! They didn't have a complementary umbrella for you and you got....wet? OMG!

I hope it didn't damage your loafers

My Topsiders dried out nicely before we got home thank you.

... that's pretty good there

 

[Bill Watson]

Kinda city close, I prefer Licoln Park N07, not controlled, cool vibe, no fees, great little indoor/outdoor bar/cafe, $4.89 for 100LL. Easy access without TSA BS.

Having once been a NJ commuter into Manhattan, I used to fly into nearby Caldwell/Essex but that definitly requires a rental car. Never flew into Lincoln Park because I didn't have any transportation options though I'm sure Uber would work fine now.

 

[redtail]

Don't you also have to call clearance delivery before a VFR departure. I haven't been there yet, but I hear it operates like a Class C even though it's a Class D.

That was Teterboro. Wasn't until we ventured to other Class D fields in the area that I realized that wasn't a standard procedure for all of them.

 

[FlyBoyAndy]

Last time I was there I think I called CD. Are you saying you do not have to call them and just fly out of there VFR by calling ground and tower?

 

[Shepherd]

Local and county municipalities have shut down every other airport in Westchester County, and there used to be plenty of them. Mahopac, Somers, Armonk, Croton, Verplanck, Peekskill, Dobbs Ferry, (just from memory, which is fading fast) all had airports. All gone.

 

[rocketflyer84]

Last time I was there I think I called CD. Are you saying you do not have to call them and just fly out of there VFR by calling ground and tower?

Correct. If you're VFR it's just like any other Class D. Call ground and request taxi, tell them you're VFR and your direction of flight. You will depart VFR squawking 1200. I was just saying if you want flight following CD can set it up for you on the ground, but it's not required.

Inbound too if you just call the tower nothing bad will happen. They will get you in and will just tag you up themselves on radar and give you a code. They prefer to have you call up approach first to get tagged up on radar as it helps on their workload, but they can't get angry at you for not doing that given that it's not written down anywhere, in the ATIS, in the AIM or anything like that. Just local knowledge that people in the area know about.

 

[rocketflyer84]

Local and county municipalities have shut down every other airport in Westchester County, and there used to be plenty of them. Mahopac, Somers, Armonk, Croton, Verplanck, Peekskill, Dobbs Ferry, (just from memory, which is fading fast) all had airports. All gone.

Indeed it's been a sad decline.

Ironically now those municipalities supporting light GA at KHPN is likely the best option they have to preserving tranquility in the area. The airport isn't going away so their next best bet is influencing the mix of traffic at the airport. If, as planned, light GA gets the boot for more Gulfstreams that's hardly a desirable outcome for those residents now. A Cessna doing a local flight day is a lot less disruptive to these people than a Gulfstream roaring out at midnight.

 

[MassPilot]

Local and county municipalities have shut down every other airport in Westchester County, and there used to be plenty of them. Mahopac, Somers, Armonk, Croton, Verplanck, Peekskill, Dobbs Ferry, (just from memory, which is fading fast) all had airports. All gone.

There was an airport in Dobbs Ferry? I grew up there and my family still lives there and I never heard of this.

 

[Shepherd]

There was an airport in Dobbs Ferry? I grew up there and my family still lives there and I never heard of this.

Pickair- It was a seaplane base.

 

[MassPilot]

Pickair- It was a seaplane base.

I just found some references to it from the 1940's. I had no idea. Any idea when it closed? My family moved there in 1988 and I think it was long gone by then. I can't believe I didn't know about that in my hometown.

 

[Jimmy cooper]

I have not been to white plains, westchester in years. A pal delivered a new turbo commander to the Rockefeller hangar and I rode along. Lawrence was to use it while skiing out west. Also IBM had a big aircraft operation there. They are not much interested in fifty year old 172s etc. it's a big money area, has been for years. They will do it their way. Your probably wasting your time unless your varsity.

 

[FlyBoyAndy]

Flew to HPN yesterday and there was a lot of GA traffic. Hard to believe they want to get rid of it.

 

[archerguy]

i agree

 

[MichaelO]

Hey, any update about the situation there? I will be relocating from AZ in the very near future, and was considering keeping my little 182 there.
Thanks

 

[N1120A]

This is the kind of issue to take up with AOPA. They have been reasonably successful with their complaints, and have even gotten local authorities to kick out FBOs (SNA) in exchange for much more friendly ones.

That was Teterboro. Wasn't until we ventured to other Class D fields in the area that I realized that wasn't a standard procedure for all of them.

VNY has a class to clearance for FF, but you can just call ground for a VFR departure. Of course, VNY sits under a C and adjacent to a B, in the world's busiest airspace, so people who aren't talking to SoCal are...well...

Hey, any update about the situation there? I will be relocating from AZ in the very near future, and was considering keeping my little 182 there.
Thanks

Well, the cheapest gas is $6.78 a gallon...