Help me make my Cherokee bigger

Chrisgoesflying

Chrisgoesflying

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Chrisgoesflying
So, I started my quest to find a plane that will eventually accommodate my wife, our dog and the day will come, +1, and I'm already tired of it. Looked at Comanches that had serious maintenance issues (but are perfect according to the broker/seller), can't really afford a Cherokee 6, don't think I like 1950s Bonanzas and definitely think early Mooneys are too small and uncomfortable (there is one in the hangar I rent space in so I see it up close). In addition, I had my plane on the market for two days and already don't feel like dealing with tire kickers and time wasters - anyone who has ever sold a plane knows what I'm talking about.

I like the Cherokee I have, so why move on from it? The two sticking points that bother me are size (not really useful load, it has plenty of that) and speed.

Speed: I can live with it and I will probably put on some of the speed mods over the years to add a few knots. I'm currently getting between 105 and 115 kts TAS out of it. With some mods I can probably get 120 - 125. Good enough for me.

Size: This is really the part I try to solve. Right now, there is plenty of size. I took the two snap-in backseats out and I have the hat rack bulkhead installed. One half of the back is for the dog and one half is for bags. I have over 800 lbs of useful load and usually don't have more than 40 gallons of fuel on board so weight is not an issue. But, if the family grows +1 and I add one seat back there, there is literally no space for bags left. The dog keeps his half of the back, the human addition gets the backseat. The only space for bags would be the hat rack, where you can only put light stuff and a few inches of space right behind the backseat but that's just barely enough for a small bag.

The 1966 Cherokee 140 is the same airframe as the 160 and 180 of similar vintage, yet those models all have more baggage space behind the seats because the bulkhead is a few stations further aft.

Are there any modifications to achieve something similar on a 140? Could I take out the hatrack bulkhead and install a regular wall bulkhead of a 180 or 160 a few stations further aft?

I also read somewhere about a modification about a baggage door on the 140 but in that thread, nobody could really tell if that was field approved or if there is an STC for it. I can't find anything official about that.

Also, I read about the "third window STC", which apparently would also allow for the bulkhead to move aft. Knots2U actually has that STC for sale but when I emailed their customer service about it, they said they don't know anything about that STC and said it can't be purchased from them. Why they still have it on their website then is a mystery to me.

If I could make the cabin of the 140 the same size as the 160 or 180 (which has to be possible somehow, it's the same freaking airframe), I could keep that plane for at least another 10 or so years instead of having to go through that whole sell/buy/fixing past owners stinginess, dilemma in the near future.

HELP PLEASE!
 
I have obtained Field Approvals to extend the baggage comp aft 1 bay.

Probably the easiest way to do this is you sending me a pm with your e- mail

address or phone number. I’ll respond with N Number of aircraft so you can

get the Records Disc from FAA.

Note the 337 is vague on how it is done.
 
There is also an STC for a floor compartment - could hold "valuable stuff" :eek: but not much space unless you're desperate.

 
texasclouds said:
If this is your first child, your wife will be hauling so many baby accessories that your only option really is to get a King Air 200.
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:yeahthat:

Best to just ship the kid, along with the stroller and playpen and toys et cetera ad infinitum, ahead to wherever you’re going. Or kennel it until you return.

If you’re okay with the slower speeds as you say, you should look at Beech Sundowners and Musketeers. Lots more room, well built, 60gal tanks, no onerous ADs, etc. My B23 has the O360 and trues out around 120 knots.
 
There's actually a tool you can use to do exactly what you want. You can order it from Lowe's. It's in the same aisle as the board stretchers.
 
Maybe its a "to each their own" situation, but I see selling/buying as WAAAAY less hassle than the STC and/or 337 route...and probably less cost too.
 
Country Flier said:
Maybe its a "to each their own" situation, but I see selling/buying as WAAAAY less hassle than the STC and/or 337 route...and probably less cost too.
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EdFred said:
Yes, but this is also the guy that wanted to take a Comanche 250 and make it into a 180.
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Right. Why make it easy if there is a complicated way?
 
There's an extended baggage STC for PA32s but not sure if anyone made one for the PA28. If you do Facebook, join the PA28 group on there and ask. Very useful group.
 
Half Fast said:
:yeahthat:

Best to just ship the kid, along with the stroller and playpen and toys et cetera ad infinitum, ahead to wherever you’re going. Or kennel it until you return.

If you’re okay with the slower speeds as you say, you should look at Beech Sundowners and Musketeers. Lots more room, well built, 60gal tanks, no onerous ADs, etc. My B23 has the O360 and trues out around 120 knots.
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It does look roomy. There is one in the hangar I’m parked in. Been sitting for three years. Doubt he’ll ever sell it. It’s one of those “let’s keep the plane so I can say I have a plane” type of thing. The only other B23 for sale right now in Canada is way overpriced, has an ugly interior and would feel like a downgrade compared to the Cherokee I currently own.
 
Chrisgoesflying said:
It does look roomy. There is one in the hangar I’m parked in. Been sitting for three years. Doubt he’ll ever sell it. It’s one of those “let’s keep the plane so I can say I have a plane” type of thing. The only other B23 for sale right now in Canada is way overpriced, has an ugly interior and would feel like a downgrade compared to the Cherokee I currently own.
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Forgot you were one of them foreigners. Yeah, options in Canada might be limited.
 
Chrisgoesflying said:
If I could make the cabin of the 140 the same size as the 160 or 180 (which has to be possible somehow, it's the same freaking airframe)
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Given you're from north of the border you may want to check with your local maintenance talent on options. You can also get creative on the luggage side, stacking it to the roof, under seats, compression bags, etc. which can get you more volume. But I would definitely 2nd going to a type club forum and posting the question. If that doesn't give you any direction and you want to take it to the next level, then I'd discuss with a knowledgeable DER here to formulate a custom option and the costs that would go with it.
 
Try rubbing the nose a little.

But on a more serious note... would the rear bulkhead from different PA-28s fit and would field approval be a possibility for such a thing? The ones I've seen are little more than plastic covers and surely don't do anything structural.
 
EdFred said:
Yes, but this is also the guy that wanted to take a Comanche 250 and make it into a 180.
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Sounds like he still wants the Comanche 180 and is just approaching from the other end.
Chrisgoesflying said:
It does look roomy. There is one in the hangar I’m parked in. Been sitting for three years. Doubt he’ll ever sell it. It’s one of those “let’s keep the plane so I can say I have a plane” type of thing. The only other B23 for sale right now in Canada is way overpriced, has an ugly interior and would feel like a downgrade compared to the Cherokee I currently own.
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Any chance you can just borrow his? That way you can "keep the engine happy" for him.
 
Just fly the plane and enjoy it. Wait until the day comes when you have a couple of plus ones and then figure out what you want. You're a bit ahead of your skis here.
 
WDD said:
Just fly the plane and enjoy it. Wait until the day comes when you have a couple of plus ones and then figure out what you want. You're a bit ahead of your skis here.
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I disagree. He should buy the plane he wants now. Once he finds out what kids cost he'll never be able to buy another airplane.
 
WDD said:
Just fly the plane and enjoy it. Wait until the day comes when you have a couple of plus ones and then figure out what you want. You're a bit ahead of your skis here.
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I prefer being proactive. A: keeps me busy on bad weather days lol and B: I just don’t like surprises.
 
Chrisgoesflying said:
I prefer being proactive. A: keeps me busy on bad weather days lol and B: I just don’t like surprises.
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To be serious for a moment / you just don’t have all of the unknowns yet. How many children? How many dogs? What if wife doesn’t want to fly with little ones? What if for family trips you just rent a 182?

Fly what you already have. Enjoy life. You’ll have plenty of time to get something different when the time comes
 
I've been through a +2 with a 182, more than enough baggage. We still ran out of space. Car seats eat up so much room and diapers are just bulky. 3 years later and a bigger plane we still fill it up.

Just think long and hard what you can leave for a day trip and what you can FedEx for a weeklong stay.
 
Chris

You may want to consider how much weight you want in your

possible non- standard baggage compartment.

The installation I referred to has a limitation; just like

all baggage compartments.

Sorry, I don’t recall the figure.
 
Chrisgoesflying said:
I like the Cherokee I have, so why move on from it? The two sticking points that bother me are size (not really useful load, it has plenty of that) and speed.

Speed: I can live with it and I will probably put on some of the speed mods over the years to add a few knots. I'm currently getting between 105 and 115 kts TAS out of it. With some mods I can probably get 120 - 125. Good enough for me.
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This seems optimistic.
 
Traveling humans are a gas. One of the consequences of this is that, like all gases, they expand to fill the available space.
 
Gas station plane enlargement pills!
 
Get a half dozen or so flying club members together and get a Cherokee Six or Beech Bonanza. It won't be long after the family grows that you find out that 'man's best friend' is your only flying buddy. Many of my flying friends had big intentions of taken the family everywhere. Shortly after the diapers then the after school activities before long college. Over 90 percent of your flying will be two or less occupants.
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
Just wait until you have kids!! :rofl::rofl::rofl:
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LOL


WDD said:
To be serious for a moment / you just don’t have all of the unknowns yet. How many children? How many dogs? What if wife doesn’t want to fly with little ones? What if for family trips you just rent a 182?

Fly what you already have. Enjoy life. You’ll have plenty of time to get something different when the time comes
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One kid, one dog, unless we have twins (would have to strap one to the wing I guess). We're pretty clear on that so I would say that's almost certain, barring anything unforeseen like twins. Renting for family trips isn't really an option because the main family trip is going from Canada down to Florida for the winter. Can't do that in a rental as that would get very expensive very fast.

wheaties said:
I've been through a +2 with a 182, more than enough baggage. We still ran out of space. Car seats eat up so much room and diapers are just bulky. 3 years later and a bigger plane we still fill it up.

Just think long and hard what you can leave for a day trip and what you can FedEx for a weeklong stay.
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FexEx'ing stuff is definitely something we'll have to start doing. Even just with the two of us, plus the dog, plus the cat and all the bags, I felt like one of these clown cars every time we pulled up to an FBO on the way to Florida. The FBO staff always helps me unloading the plane, me on the wing handing down bags. "Another one, oh, wait, there is another one, hey not so fast, another one, and the cat, and his litter..." I don't know how we fit all that stuff on the Cherokee haha. Even the border guy was like "are you bringing your entire house with you?" haha.

3393RP said:
This seems optimistic.
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What does? The estimation after speed mods or the current performance? The current performance is what I've been seeing over the past two years of ownership. The performance after speed mods is what I'm hoping for but no idea if that's wishful thinking.

Klaus M said:
Get a half dozen or so flying club members together and get a Cherokee Six or Beech Bonanza. It won't be long after the family grows that you find out that 'man's best friend' is your only flying buddy. Many of my flying friends had big intentions of taken the family everywhere. Shortly after the diapers then the after school activities before long college. Over 90 percent of your flying will be two or less occupants.
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As mentioned earlier, the main trip is the one from Canada to Florida and back for the winter. Also, I doubt my wife will give up flying or traveling. She (just like me) loves to travel and she 100% prefers nice FBOs over dirty gas station bathrooms. Plus, even in the Cherokee, we can usually cut travel times in half compared to driving. I rarely do solo sightseeing flights. I find them boring. The only time I'm on the plane on my own is for currency training or if I want to practice something specific. We've been doing this since 2019, weekend trips, week long trips and since COVID is over, escaping the winter trips - I highly doubt that would change. People said we'll start traveling less when we adopted our puppy two years ago. The contrary happened, we are traveling more lol.

I also heard something along the lines of aircraft owners fly the most in the first year and then times start to go down. I've flow more hours every year since I bought my first plane. First year of plane ownership, I was doing something like 50 hours and last year it was around 120 hours.

I talked to my mechanic earlier today about making the Cherokee interior bigger. His response was, that it's possible and he can do it next annual. At the same time, he said I should just get something bigger and faster. He might have a buyer for the Cherokee and he knows of a Mooney (medium length body) that he maintains that will be for sale soon. That might be tempting. I've only ever seen the short body Mooneys (M20C). Are the medium body Mooneys more comfortable and larger than the Cherokees? How do they compare to the Comanche?
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Sell it and buy a Sierra.

Here's one with no hours, tons of room, and it will carry a thousand pounds

https://www.trade-a-plane.com/searc...SIERRA+200&listing_id=2416050&s-type=aircraft
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There was one of these at RR last year and it was awesome. Two doors and a huge cabin. Nice plane, and under the radar a bit still.

Chrisgoesflying said:
100% prefers nice FBOs over dirty gas station bathrooms.
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I hadn't put my finger on this, but YES! It's been a long time since I've been in a nasty gas station bathroom, which was one of the things I hated most about traveling. I can't imagine being a female and actually having to touch surfaces in those places.

Chrisgoesflying said:
Are the medium body Mooneys more comfortable and larger than the Cherokees?
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Depends on what you like. If you're skinny they're awesome. If you're big & broad shouldered, they can be uncomfortable. Space wise... I've seen @masloki carry 4 adults and a shockingly huge amount of stuff. They look tiny but are surprisingly capable.
 
Jim K said:
There was one of these at RR last year and it was awesome. Two doors and a huge cabin. Nice plane, and under the radar a bit still.


I hadn't put my finger on this, but YES! It's been a long time since I've been in a nasty gas station bathroom, which was one of the things I hated most about traveling. I can't imagine being a female and actually having to touch surfaces in those places.


Depends on what you like. If you're skinny they're awesome. If you're big & broad shouldered, they can be uncomfortable. Space wise... I've seen @masloki carry 4 adults and a shockingly huge amount of stuff. They look tiny but are surprisingly capable.
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But will they fit an electric scooter? :eek:
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Sell it and buy a Sierra.

Here's one with no hours, tons of room, and it will carry a thousand pounds

https://www.trade-a-plane.com/searc...SIERRA+200&listing_id=2416050&s-type=aircraft
Click to expand...

Ugly interior but other than that it’s nice and within budget. I guess I could look at US registered planes since I have an FAA and Canadian certificate.

Jim K said:
Depends on what you like. If you're skinny they're awesome. If you're big & broad shouldered, they can be uncomfortable. Space wise... I've seen @masloki carry 4 adults and a shockingly huge amount of stuff. They look tiny but are surprisingly capable.
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Hmm, both my wife and I are not big at all. I’m tall-ish but not overly tall so this might work and could be motivation to not gain any body mass lol.
texasclouds said:
You people all misspelled Cessna One Ninety Fife!!! Woooooooo!!!!!!!!!


View attachment 117143 View attachment 117144 View attachment 117145
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The nose wheel is on the wrong end of the airplane. Major engineering f——— up.
 
Chrisgoesflying said:
Hmm, both my wife and I are not big at all. I’m tall-ish but not overly tall so this might work and could be motivation to not gain any body mass lol.
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Al Mooney was 6'5" :D
Seriously though, there is a stupid amount of leg room. I'm 6'4", and could stretch my legs all the way straight and still not reach the rudder pedals at the rearmost seat stop. The problem I had is that my shoulder pressed against the side of the body and prevented me from sitting up straight, but I'm also wider than average. It's more of a sports-car type seating; low & stretched out.

Chrisgoesflying said:
The nose wheel is on the wrong end of the airplane. Major engineering f——— up.
Click to expand...
5dt0rl.jpg
 
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