Help me hire a private jet or charter plane?

kimberlyanne546 said:
Nope it started with a "T". I will call your company if needed, sorry I thought I posted above that DVO was out and O69 was out and we ended up choosing STS. Though the Pilatus lady said they could land at DVO but STS would be cheaper. I asked "why" and she said it is based out of where the plane is located. It must be in Santa Rosa or close to there.
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Probably TWC they are a huge outfit. A Pilatus would be great, it will take a little longer but would be cheaper. And a Pilatus can fit into any airport.
 
bobmrg said:
First, this is a Part 135 trip, so you have to find an air taxi outfit. Second, since when does it take two days to fly a twin from the Bay area to southern Idaho? Depends on the twin, of course, but most turboprops could do it in less than a day. A King Air could do it easily and would be much cheaper than a jet.

Bob Gardner
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Dude, this guy knows nothing. See above, if you have to ask how much then you can't afford it.

Typical non-pilot (though a gazillion years ago he says he took a few flight lessons but decided it was too dangerous and quit).

A) He thinks only jets are for hire. When I mentioned "multi" he didn't realize they go fast. And heck, a Pilatus is fine for the job and it only has one prop.

B ) I'd bet he would want two pilots not single pilot - "just because it makes him feel safer" or something like that.

C) I would also bet he expects a huge amount of perks that just don't exist.
 
Everskyward said:
So realistically I would expect a price in the $5,000-7,000 range for a smallish jet unless you find a one-way. $2,100 is low and $15,000 (or was that $15,000/hour is really high). A Gulfstream is way overkill. They would need to pay it twice for legs that are 6 days apart.
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Thank you.

First quote is in:

$14,182 for the Pilatus!!!
 
When I priced fracs for a client last year, NJ's lowest rate was ~$5k/hr for 25 hour/yr card.

X3 Skier said:
If they are serious and want to make it a frequent thing, try Net Jets or one of the many other fractional ownerships.

Cheers
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kimberlyanne546 said:
Actually the woman on the phone with the Pilatus warned me it was single pilot.

I said "so what, my friend he flies a Pilatus sometimes alone and sometimes with a co-pilot."

She said "some people don't like that there is only one pilot and want to pay extra for a co-pilot."

So yeah, I think this guy might want a jet instead of a turbo prop (especially a single engine). And if he found out it was single pilot he might also want a second pilot.

They said they fly around 25,000 feet.
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It just depends on the passengers. There are some who are not thrilled about props, single-pilot or single-engine. Some also have the idea that they would like to fly at airliner speeds, especially if they are paying a lot of money for it. Remember this is transportation for most of them, not something fun. It seems like you know the person who your are doing this for, so you probably have a better idea what his tolerance is.
 
Second quote is in:

$19,000 for the Citation Mustang!

I should end the thread right now, there is NO WAY he will go for this.

Oh well.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Dude, this guy knows nothing. See above, if you have to ask how much then you can't afford it.

Typical non-pilot (though a gazillion years ago he says he took a few flight lessons but decided it was too dangerous and quit).

A) He thinks only jets are for hire. When I mentioned "multi" he didn't realize they go fast. And heck, a Pilatus is fine for the job and it only has one prop.

This is relative thinking. A multi-engine prop aircraft with the exception of a Piaggio doesn't really go that fast. They don't go high either.

B ) I'd bet he would want two pilots not single pilot - "just because it makes him feel safer" or something like that.

2 pilots are absolutely safer.

C) I would also bet he expects a huge amount of perks that just don't exist.

What perks would he want that don't exist?
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See above.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Second quote is in:

$19,000 for the Citation Mustang!

I should end the thread right now, there is NO WAY he will go for this.

Oh well.
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That is because the company is trying to make a profit on top of paying an outrageous loan on a new aircraft.
 
Just for the sake of comparison, our Lear 60 goes for about 3,300/hr + airport fees and overnights. Yeah....the quotes are gonna be high.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Thank you, I will try them next week if needed. Right now I'm waiting on two quotes and then we'll see what he says.
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Don't bother with the fractionals. NetJets, FlightOptions, FlexJet, Avantair.

I fly for Avantair and we are the Walmart of fractionals. We START at a 1/16 share. That gets you 50 hours per year and costs $550K upfront for the plane and then a $9,600 monthly management fee. We don't do any charter. If your a big spender you can buy a 25 hour card for $115K.

Remember, we are the cheapest of all the fracs. If he's afraid of the numbers mentioned above the fracs will not be an option.
 
Fearless Tower said:
What model Citation?

$2100 seems a wee bit low for a jet charter. When I was running the numbers for a masters degree project (comparing business travel costs between various modes) a year ago, turbo props were running ~$1500-2000/hr.
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Not sure what model that one was, but my buddy manages his company's Citation XL and when they lease out for charter they charge $2,300 an hour...not sure if that is with pilots. I think the broker marks that up a bit.
 
Avantair has a card deal as well, slightly cheaper than NJ's. I got a quote from them too, but the TUL-LAX trips weren't doable with loads he carries.

Captain said:
Don't bother with the fractionals. NetJets, FlightOptions, FlexJet, Avantair.

I fly for Avantair and we are the Walmart of fractionals. We START at a 1/16 share. That gets you 50 hours per year and costs $550K upfront for the plane and then a $9,600 monthly management fee. We don't do any charter. If your a big spender you can buy a 25 hour card for $115K.

Remember, we are the cheapest of all the fracs. If he's afraid of the numbers mentioned above the fracs will not be an option.
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kimberlyanne546 said:
He wanted to save money. He wanted to get the cheap one. My guess is that since he hasn't bought tickets he thought - key word here is thought - that it would be cheaper to do a private plane than pay for the doggie airlines plus three adults.

I am 99% positive that if these quotes come in around $6,000 and above he will act shocked and book a United ticket.
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My guess is that the trip will run around 50k.

Bob Gardner
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
See above, 14K and 19K (total).

But this thread has definitely been informative.
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Are you including the two round trips or putting up the crew for six days in your calculations?

Bob
 
This is almost doable in our Aerostar, although we would have to go a little higher than the certificate allows. 2 and a half hours each way. Even for us, it'd be around 6k, and I doubt the boss would want the plane sitting for 6 days out of service, and over Christmas would add a fair amount.
 
bobmrg said:
Are you including the two round trips or putting up the crew for six days in your calculations?

Bob
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Those figures weren't her 'calculations'. She told them the total trip requirements and that I what they quoted her.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
Z06_Mir said:
Fractions are expensive, but if you actually go the fractional route instead of the card route (Like a Marquis Card) you'll have some equity in it. From my limited experience NetJets is the creme de la creme of fractionals, FlexJet isn't bad, FlightOptions isn't bad and Avantair is the crappiest of the bunch. If NJ gets a mechanical wherever they are (or in on case one declared an emergency due to smoke in the cockpit) and it took them less than 2 hours to get a replacement airplane... and the 4 or 5 times I've seen it happen they send a better airplane than you have. I think I'd have a better image of FlightOps if they had less Beechjets. Almost every time I see FlightOps it's a Beechjet, sometimes a Hawker 600... Don't see much of FlexJet but their catering is a PITA. I don't know the prices or anything, but I'd guess that NJ is the most, with Flex and FlightOps behind and Avantair cheapest. You couldn't pay me to fly on Avantair.
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Well you don't have to be mean about it. Okay, you don't like my company. We get it.
 
The card programs evolved only because the residual values of frac interests was so crappy for the owners. If a frac buyer plans for a 70% percent residual after the contract ends (usually in 5 years) and receives only 50%, the frac company can safely assume they will have some very unhappy customers. After this scenario occurred a few times and the frac owners started bailing out, the card programs were introduced to eliminate the problem.

Z06_Mir said:
Fractions are expensive, but if you actually go the fractional route instead of the card route (Like a Marquis Card) you'll have some equity in it. From my limited experience NetJets is the creme de la creme of fractionals, FlexJet isn't bad, FlightOptions isn't bad and Avantair is the crappiest of the bunch. If NJ gets a mechanical wherever they are (or in on case one declared an emergency due to smoke in the cockpit) and it took them less than 2 hours to get a replacement airplane... and the 4 or 5 times I've seen it happen they send a better airplane than you have. I think I'd have a better image of FlightOps if they had less Beechjets. Almost every time I see FlightOps it's a Beechjet, sometimes a Hawker 600... Don't see much of FlexJet but their catering is a PITA. I don't know the prices or anything, but I'd guess that NJ is the most, with Flex and FlightOps behind and Avantair cheapest. You couldn't pay me to fly on Avantair.
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After sending the bids I have not heard back. Oh well. I guess that is probably a "no" then.

It was still very interesting for me personally to see this side of aviation.
 
You would be even more interested to see how the charter companies manipulate the rates and cost structures to best serve their needs and screw the airplane owners. But that's another conversation.


kimberlyanne546 said:
After sending the bids I have not heard back. Oh well. I guess that is probably a "no" then.

It was still very interesting for me personally to see this side of aviation.
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nddons said:
You know, this sounds like an interesting business opportunity. I've tried finding charters once, and the cost was literally all over the board. I think people would pay for an agent to do the footwork for them. And, being a knowledgeable pilot, you would be perfect for that! :thumbsup:
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Everskyward said:
There are lots of people like that. They are called charter brokers.
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Beat me to it....

I bet there are more charter brokers out there than jets on 135 right now (well, not really, but it seems like the folks that can afford to charter are more than happy to pay for and work through a "known entity" that gets it all set up for them)
 
For 15k an hour, omg! fly first class! Have someone fly the dog in a slower 2 day way drive it or buy another dog!
 
wabower said:
You would be even more interested to see how the charter companies manipulate the rates and cost structures to best serve their needs and screw the airplane owners. But that's another conversation.
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That would be fractionals. Not charter.
 
Then you're an exception and to be congratulated, if in fact your fares and costs are significantly better than the norm.

Inverted said:
We own the aircraft, so if we rape the owners on cost it does us no good. ;)
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wabower said:
You would be even more interested to see how the charter companies manipulate the rates and cost structures to best serve their needs and screw the airplane owners. But that's another conversation.
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But....But....Wayne, the owners are using the airplane for a tax write-off. The charter company is doing them a favor by making the loss easy and obvious. Surely, you don't want the owners to have an outcome different than they expected? :)
 
Oh, is that how it works? Silly me.
:rofl:

jnmeade said:
But....But....Wayne, the owners are using the airplane for a tax write-off. The charter company is doing them a favor by making the loss easy and obvious. Surely, you don't want the owners to have an outcome different than they expected? :)
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Wayne's got it right. A large percentage of jets on charter are not owned by the 135 certificate holder. The certificate holder promises the owner countless paid hours and immaculate management. What the owner too often gets are padded maintenance bills, unexplained non revenue Pt 91 flights, a beat up airplane and a host of other unwelcome and expensive surprises. Undoubtably there are exceptions to this, but a host of otherwise savvy business people have been hosed by putting their jets on someone's certificate. It really is a cut throat business.
 
I agree that it's a cutthroat business but some companies simply don't want to deal with having their own flight department. It's easier to outsource even if it costs more.
 
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