Help Me Decide: Garmin 430 or 650?

M

Minshall

Pre-Flight
Joined
Oct 4, 2012
Messages
64
Location
Oregon
Display Name
Display name:
TedM
I've got an ancient GPS and need to upgrade to an IFR unit. A used 430W was the initial choice, but for ~$3k more I can put in a new 650W. I'm inclined to go with the 650, but would appreciate opinions of anyone who's tried it.

The aircraft is a Grumman Tiger.

Thanks,
Ted
N4544P
 
Without knowing your usage or future intentions, I'd opt for the newer unit. I have a 430W, and intend to trade up soon. FWIW, I'd also wire the unit so that a big display (696-796) can be used rather than the little screen on the panel-mounted unit.

Minshall said:
I've got an ancient GPS and need to upgrade to an IFR unit. A used 430W was the initial choice, but for ~$3k more I can put in a new 650W. I'm inclined to go with the 650, but would appreciate opinions of anyone who's tried it.

The aircraft is a Grumman Tiger.

Thanks,
Ted
N4544P
Click to expand...
 
Before deciding on which G now, consider placing a deposit and waiting on an IFD440. You will have to wait a year or so but looks like a better product.

Try out the garmin simulators then contact Avidyne for an online IFD440 seminar / demonstration.
 
Last edited:
For $3k what is the holdup?
No way would I opt for the 430 unless I had a fleet of planes, all with 430s, and I had no intention of upgrading any of the others.
 
JOhnH said:
For $3k what is the holdup?
No way would I opt for the 430 unless I had a fleet of planes, all with 430s, and I had no intention of upgrading any of the others.
Click to expand...

If I already had a 430W in the plane, I might think about it because the data subscriptions for the new units are tied to serial number.
 
In my opinion the larger screen on the 650 gives you a significant advantage, I don't really care for the touchscreen so that doesn't matter to me. One thing I really dislike about the 650 is that you can't see your com and nav radios at the same time.
In your case I'd still probably go for the 650 (mainly because of the larger screen).
 
650 all the way...I need someone else to take the depreciation hit on avionics. :D
 
I chose the 650 for my 172 over the 430. I have no regrets.
 
Which ever one makes you happy
 
wsuffa said:
If I already had a 430W in the plane, I might think about it because the data subscriptions for the new units are tied to serial number.
Click to expand...

So the monthly nav updates are unit specific? :dunno:
I am considering swapping my 430w for a 650 in my son's 182. Now I just take the recently expired data card from my plane and put it in the 182 and update his card and put it into mine. We don't fly the 182 IFR, I guess I just assumed I could make the same swap if I put a 650 in the 182 and a 750 in the Conquest. I was thinking I could avoid an additional subscription.:dunno:
 
MachFly said:
In my opinion the larger screen on the 650 gives you a significant advantage, I don't really care for the touchscreen so that doesn't matter to me. One thing I really dislike about the 650 is that you can't see your com and nav radios at the same time.
In your case I'd still probably go for the 650 (mainly because of the larger screen).
Click to expand...

I had an SL30 and I thought only seeing the comm or nav frequencies would be a problem, but after a couple flights it's fine, especially if it gives you more screen space.:D
 
I've been flying with a 650 the last 2 weeks and its a PITA in turbulence (atleast to me). The 430/530 seems way more intuitive to me - I'm not gonna upgrade in my plane until either my units break, or they don't support them anymore. Even then as someone mentioned earlier I will probably go with an IFD 540/440 stack. I saw it at SnF last year, it's a nice unit.
 
N747JB said:
I had an SL30 and I thought only seeing the comm or nav frequencies would be a problem, but after a couple flights it's fine, especially if it gives you more screen space.:D
Click to expand...

I spend about 15 (or 20) hours with it....how many hours do I need to get used to it?
 
Thanks so much for all the help. I left a post at lunch, and I've got a bunch of experience and a few jokes by the time I get home from work - you guys rock!

I'll have to check out the Avidyne.

Right now I'm just VFR, but taking lessons for IFR (which is why I'm upgrading). The Tiger is un, but not necessarily stable, so turbulence is a concern with the touchscreen. I live in the Pacific Northwest, so I'm not overly concerned with traffic, but I do occasionally make it to Seattle, San Francisco, and Los Angeles.

Thanks again. I'll keep watching for any more advice that's out there, as well as the jokes & wise-cracks.
 
You are at the same point I was at last year at this time. Old 430W or New GTN650. I went with the 650 and haven't given it a second thought. Garmin will at some point in the future (sooner rather than later) stop supporting the 430W so (IMHO) the 650 makes sense for the long run.
 
Dean V said:
I don't know what the prices are you have been quoted, but I think the price you are being quoted on the used 430W is too high in relation to the new unit.
Click to expand...

I wish this were true. When I was going down this path in the Fall, I found that used 430W units were still commanding in the $7k range. And for a few thousand more, I could be in a 650. It was a no brainer for me.
 
DavidWhite said:
I've been flying with a 650 the last 2 weeks and its a PITA in turbulence (atleast to me). The 430/530 seems way more intuitive to me - I'm not gonna upgrade in my plane until either my units break, or they don't support them anymore. Even then as someone mentioned earlier I will probably go with an IFD 540/440 stack. I saw it at SnF last year, it's a nice unit.
Click to expand...

I have been hearing similar comments from local flyers about the touch screen in Turbulence. I agree that Avidyne's looks good but I don't know if they are ever going to get their act together and get the darn thing certified. I was talking to an Avionics guy and he thinks Bendix King will be bringing a new unit to market in June that has the touch screen and all the required push buttons as well making it a better unit in Turbulence. Time will tell.
 
BK hasn't produced anything worth a shlt since the 90-B. Why does anybody think it will change now?

tmyers said:
I have been hearing similar comments from local flyers about the touch screen in Turbulence. I agree that Avidyne's looks good but I don't know if they are ever going to get their act together and get the darn thing certified. I was talking to an Avionics guy and he thinks Bendix King will be bringing a new unit to market in June that has the touch screen and all the required push buttons as well making it a better unit in Turbulence. Time will tell.
Click to expand...
 
Marauder said:
I wish this were true. When I was going down this path in the Fall, I found that used 430W units were still commanding in the $7k range. And for a few thousand more, I could be in a 650. It was a no brainer for me.
Click to expand...

My avionics shop said I can get $9K for the 530W and $6K for the 430W, assuming they mark them up a grand or so each, plus installation, I can see a used 430W being close to $10K installed. :dunno: and I was quoted $12K on a 650, taking out a 430W.
 
MachFly said:
I spend about 15 (or 20) hours with it....how many hours do I need to get used to it?
Click to expand...

I flew with it in my 421 for three years and I liked the radio, I had a 530 as my primary, but used the SL30 quite a bit. I felt comfortable after 10-15 hours with the SL30 and the new audio panel. :D
 
I have the G530AW and I am very happy with it. Have no plans to switch to the GTN 750 or the Avidyne 540. Unlike the 750 on the 530 you can quickly switch NAV pages with just one click of the knob. As far as turbulence it is bad enough hanging on the knob on severe turbulence, much worse trying to touch the right button on the 750 screen. Both units (750 & 530) have buttons the only difference is that on the 530 they are on the bezel already identified (no brainer) while on the 750 you first have to enter the menu button to bring the buttons and then know what button to touch, unlike the 530 rotating knob that you can easily scan through the pages to select the desired item. To make things worse I have old fat fingers that are not very gentle on touching anything. And if I am using gloves the 750 does not accept entries half of the time but the 530 will.

José
 
Last edited:
I should also add that I am one of those people the goes just crazy postal if you touch my computer screen to point out something. I try to keep it clean and finger prints make me grouchy, just ask my wife!!!

I am not sure how my inner being would react to touching the screen of a multi thousand dollar instrument.

So while my brain keeps pointing me toward a 750, my gut just isn't there quite yet.
 
I have a friend who has an iFly gps unit and uses it for VFR only. I don't know if they make them for IFR but anyway, he says it's really great and that the data subscription is. Uh less than garmin.
 
Obsolescence and support problems will descend on the 430 first. Eventually all will succumb.
 
kontiki said:
Obsolescence and support problems will descend on the 430 first. Eventually all will succumb.
Click to expand...


Yeah but when is that gonna happen? We're running strong on KLN900s at work (military version of KLN90B) and there's no indication of support going away. So if a KLN 89B/94 is still running strong, why would a 430 die on the vine? We're talking a decade+ here. As long as the database is supported, your /G capability won't go away.
 
kontiki said:
Obsolescence and support problems will descend on the 430 first. Eventually all will succumb.
Click to expand...
There's no way I'd install a new 430 in an airplane and unless I was doing the work myself I wouldn't consider a used one either.
 
kontiki said:
Obsolescence and support problems will descend on the 430 first. Eventually all will succumb.
Click to expand...

It didn't happen with the 40 year old KX-170. Were you can find multiple shops that repair them. With a potential market of over 30,000 G430 in the field avionics shops will be highly stimulated to service them. Technical knowledge usually comes from retired engineers and techs that worked on the product and from maintenance manuals. This is not the first or last product subject to discontinued production.

José
 
Whatever you do, don't buy an iPad.

tmyers said:
I should also add that I am one of those people the goes just crazy postal if you touch my computer screen to point out something. I try to keep it clean and finger prints make me grouchy, just ask my wife!!!

I am not sure how my inner being would react to touching the screen of a multi thousand dollar instrument.

So while my brain keeps pointing me toward a 750, my gut just isn't there quite yet.
Click to expand...
 
I actually have an ipad, and an iphone. For some reason I don't have a problem smearing the screen on an Apple product.

Wayne, what are your thoughts on the Avidyne product they are trying to get certified? Do you think they stand a chance of getting some of Garmins business?
 
I guess I'm a cheap-skate. I'm still flying around /A with an iPad / Aera 560. I would be content with a G430W.
 
Piloto said:
I have the G530AW and I am very happy with it. Have no plans to switch to the GTN 750 or the Avidyne 540. Unlike the 750 on the 530 you can quickly switch NAV pages with just one click of the knob. As far as turbulence it is bad enough hanging on the knob on severe turbulence, much worse trying to touch the right button on the 750 screen. Both units (750 & 530) have buttons the only difference is that on the 530 they are on the bezel already identified (no brainer) while on the 750 you first have to enter the menu button to bring the buttons and then know what button to touch, unlike the 530 rotating knob that you can easily scan through the pages to select the desired item. To make things worse I have old fat fingers that are not very gentle on touching anything. And if I am using gloves the 750 does not accept entries half of the time but the 530 will.

José
Click to expand...

The 750 has knobs at the corners you can use for any screen function as well. Also, I have found the grips on the side work well in turbulence, I use my thumb and middle finger on the grip and my index finger to select. I actually find it easier than knobs because you are punching keys and don't click by the number you want. YMMV.
 
DavidWhite said:
I've been flying with a 650 the last 2 weeks and its a PITA in turbulence (atleast to me). The 430/530 seems way more intuitive to me - I'm not gonna upgrade in my plane until either my units break, or they don't support them anymore. Even then as someone mentioned earlier I will probably go with an IFD 540/440 stack. I saw it at SnF last year, it's a nice unit.
Click to expand...

same here unless they come out with a GPS unit that has some "gotta have it" feature or they mandate some new requirement that the 430w doesn't meet.
 
Based on the past ten-fifteen years of watching the show, I have absolutely no confidence that Avidyne or BK will ever again successfully market a new product.

tmyers said:
I actually have an ipad, and an iphone. For some reason I don't have a problem smearing the screen on an Apple product.

Wayne, what are your thoughts on the Avidyne product they are trying to get certified? Do you think they stand a chance of getting some of Garmins business?
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top