Help making checklist use a habit

Topper

Topper

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Topper
I fly a 182 and and don't use the checklist as religiously as I should. Especially my descent and landing checklists. The 182 is so simple that I can get away with it, but it is a bad habit. I want to make using it a habit.

I plan to upgrade to a twin in the future and I know it is important and the more complex and the more different airplanes I fly, the more critical it becomes. I am thinking about knocking out my twin rating this spring even though I am not ready to move up. I hope that part of learning the twin will include the proper use of checklists.

Any advice on how to become better at checklist. Please don't respond if your answer is "just start using it and it will become habit" I get that, I need some ideas to help me to remember to use is so it becomes habit, no matter what I am flying.

Thanks,

Jim
 
The thumb rule is that anything you do 15 times becomes a habit....so make it a point to reach for a checklist at appropriate times for your next 15 flights. What can it hurt?

When I get into a car/airplane/boat...anything that can move in three dimensions...my first action is to fasten the seatbelt. After that comes key in the ignition, etc. It is an ingrained habit. You can make checklist use a habit in the same way.

Bob Gardner
 
Are you the same Bob G. that wrote the twin training book?
 
Topper said:
I fly a 182 and and don't use the checklist as religiously as I should. Especially my descent and landing checklists. The 182 is so simple that I can get away with it, but it is a bad habit. I want to make using it a habit.

I plan to upgrade to a twin in the future and I know it is important and the more complex and the more different airplanes I fly, the more critical it becomes. I am thinking about knocking out my twin rating this spring even though I am not ready to move up. I hope that part of learning the twin will include the proper use of checklists.

Any advice on how to become better at checklist. Please don't respond if your answer is "just start using it and it will become habit" I get that, I need some ideas to help me to remember to use is so it becomes habit, no matter what I am flying.

Thanks,

Jim
Click to expand...

Part of the issue is that many check lists and the supporting documentation in chapter 4 of the the AFM/POH/PIH etc is poorly written. Most check lists should be just that- a check list that follows a logical flow, not a do list. By "logical flow" I mean a flow that moves naturally, say an "L" or inverted "L" pattern and/or groups important functions first and in the appropriate location.
As an example, I was sent a few 210 owners for pre-709 rides by a FSDO after gear up landings. A common problem among them was that they used the before landing check out of the POH which has "gear down" as something like item number 4. As I told these pilots if they put the gear down but forget everything else they are going to be okay 99.9% of the time. If they forget the gear it will be a bad day 100% of the time. Put "gear down, three green" as the first item on the before landing check. Some checklists such as the PA-46 are REALLY screwed up and have "gear down" in the "Descent Check". While the gear is sometimes put downin the descent to help the airplane come down, sometimes it is delayed. I've seen PA-46 pilots then forget that it is not down.
Some checklists have down right dangerous recommendations, such as in Piper twins that recommend going to cross feed with the fuel selector prior to taxi then "on" prior to take off. This is dangerous as the fuel selector moves through the "Off" position as it is moved from "crossfeed" to "on". This has resulted in fatal crashes and this design is now banned by FAR 23.
So what I recommend is controversial. Make your own check list that follows a logical flow. Do the checklist as a flow in most situations, then back it up with the CHECK list.
 
Topper said:
Any advice on how to become better at checklist. Please don't respond if your answer is "just start using it and it will become habit" I get that, I need some ideas to help me to remember to use is so it becomes habit, no matter what I am flying.

Thanks,

Jim
Click to expand...

I know exactly what you mean. While I mentally run a checklist in my head in the 172 (GUMPS mostly) I generally don't reach for the checklist. Now that I'm starting my IFR I REALLY want to get in the habit of using checklists as much as possible to help build muscle memory of the IFR tasks and to get better at doing everything right 100% of the time.

For me I've been putting the checklist in easy to get at places and/or putting it in the way of things.

For example, I use a smartphone checklist app (with paper backup of course) and am trying to get in the habit of putting my smartphone on top of my kneeboard during cruise. Then, when I go to look at an approach plate or write down an ATIS that smartphone is there in the way, reminding me to run the descent and before landing checklist.

Blackhawk said:
Make your own check list that follows a logical flow. Do the checklist as a flow in most situations, then back it up with the CHECK list.
Click to expand...

I agree, reorganize and/or add to the "official" checklist to it to a point that make sense to you. You might create a simple card or label in your aircraft that has the checklist you want to work on. Then it's a simple as looking at your panel.
 
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tehmightypirate said:
I know exactly what you mean. While I mentally run a checklist in my head in the 172 (GUMPS mostly) I generally don't reach for the checklist. Now that I'm starting my IFR I REALLY want to get in the habit of using checklists as much as possible to help build muscle memory of the IFR tasks and to get better at doing everything right 100% of the time.

For me I've been putting the checklist in easy to get at places and/or putting it in the way of things.

For example, I use a smartphone checklist app (with paper backup of course) and am trying to get in the habit of putting my smartphone on top of my kneeboard during cruise. Then, when I go to look at an approach plate or write down an ATIS that smartphone is there in the way, reminding me to run the descent and before landing checklist.



I agree, reorganize and/or add to the "official" checklist to it to a point that make sense to you. You might create a simple card or label in your aircraft that has the checklist you want to work on. Then it's a simple as looking at your panel.
Click to expand...

Another good point. Checklists should not be books. The airliners I flew had checklists that fit on a 8 1/2 x 11 piece of poster board, yet the new 172 preflight checklist is 5 1/2 %^#*ing pages long. Seriously??? If a checklist is a book it will not be used.
 
I built my own set of checklists based on the AFM (worthless), the 8.5 x 11 book the previous owner created, and commercial checklists. It's now a 5 x 8.5 in flip-book that fits perfectly on the yoke of the cherokee. Aint no way I can ignore it, it's staring at me the moment I get into the cabin.

For pre-flight, it's the 8.5 x 11 in sheet that hangs on the shelf along with the keys to the cherokee. Can't get the keys without picking up the pre-flight sheet.

No, there are no other reminders to the checklist other than use it. Same as whatever you need when you walk out the door of the house. Keys, wallet, whatever. What do you do to make sure you have them with you?
 
murphey said:
I built my own set of checklists based on the AFM (worthless), the 8.5 x 11 book the previous owner created, and commercial checklists. It's now a 5 x 8.5 in flip-book that fits perfectly on the yoke of the cherokee. Aint no way I can ignore it, it's staring at me the moment I get into the cabin.

For pre-flight, it's the 8.5 x 11 in sheet that hangs on the shelf along with the keys to the cherokee. Can't get the keys without picking up the pre-flight sheet.

No, there are no other reminders to the checklist other than use it. Same as whatever you need when you walk out the door of the house. Keys, wallet, whatever. What do you do to make sure you have them with you?
Click to expand...

Agreed with this, the preflight and in-flight checklists can be separate and this can make them MUCH easier to use. Big checklist for your preflight, smaller one for taxi and runup, then simple laminated card or label for inflight, descent, before landing, and shutdown somewhere visible in the plane.
 
bobmrg said:
The thumb rule is that anything you do 15 times becomes a habit....so make it a point to reach for a checklist at appropriate times for your next 15 flights. What can it hurt?
Click to expand...

This (and the multiple suggestions that one create one's own checklists that his his or her needs) is what it comes down to. But there's no guarantee that you will remember it even for those 15 flights.


Hearkening back (and forever dating myself) to my first car with seatbelts, the way I developed the habit for that was to add a penalty. Doesn't have to be much. When I forgot to put it on, as soon as I noticed it, I pulled over, parked, and put it on. Not put it on while riding along. Not waiting for the next traffic light. But made it inconvenient to forget.

How to do that — add an inconvenience penalty — in flight? You are on final when you realize you did not review your checklist's before landing briefing? Go around, head away from the airport's traffic area, run the checklist and then come back. I'll bet you stop forgetting that checklist after the very first time you do it.

The other one is to fly with a passenger whose sole job is to remind you when you forget.
 
I use a written "before takeoff" checklist, but use a mental GUMPS check in the pattern.

I found being heads down looking at a checklist while near the airport impractical and perhaps unsafe.

Is this a poor practice?
 
dans2992 said:
I use a written "before takeoff" checklist, but use a mental GUMPS check in the pattern.

I found being heads down looking at a checklist while near the airport impractical and perhaps unsafe.

Is this a poor practice?
Click to expand...

Not to me but if you do it right a before landing checklist should take no time at all.

However, GUMPS is a checklist in it's on right (or at least a configuration flow, if you want). If you get in the pattern and realize you haven't run the paper checklist yet and might have to dig for it or flip pages then, yes, I would agree that a GUMPS check gets the "gotcha" items and is sufficient and probably better than a bit of heads down time.

Obviously this only applies to aircraft that aren't complex and that you're familiar with.

midlifeflyer said:
How to do that — add an inconvenience penalty — in flight? You are on final when you realize you did not review your checklist's before landing briefing? Go around, head away from the airport's traffic area, run the checklist and then come back. I'll bet you stop forgetting that checklist after the very first time you do it..
Click to expand...

Great idea.
 
tehmightypirate said:
Agreed with this, the preflight and in-flight checklists can be separate and this can make them MUCH easier to use. Big checklist for your preflight, smaller one for taxi and runup, then simple laminated card or label for inflight, descent, before landing, and shutdown somewhere visible in the plane.
Click to expand...

My little flip book also has the emergency checklists just incasenI don't remember every item. Back page are the freqs for the 3 closest airports.
 
There are a lot of threads similar to this and I'm amazed at how many people don't use checklists every time. To be fair, once you've done something xxx number of times you've probably got the procedure down.

But my first primary instructor explained checklists to me like this. Every pilot uses them, even the old pros flying heavy iron. And a checklist should be used every time. Every. Single. Time. They are there so that you absolutely will complete every item on the list every single time. There will be a day when you will feel comfortable and will think you don't need to use them any more. You will be wrong. You may get it right 999 time out of a thousand but if you stop using a checklist one day you will forget ONE step, and it may be something critical.

Since hearing that lecture many years ago I've logged a lot of hours in different aircraft, both airplane and helicopter. And I have never taken off or landed without the aid of a checklist. I am not embarrassed to pull one out even when doing the preflight walkaround of a 150. I have no doubt that I could head to the airport now and take off in any aircraft that I regularly fly and return with no problem. But I'd hate to think that I'd miss one step one day and missing that step would become a habit.

That CFI was just a kid at the time and I didn't care for his cocky attitude. The last I heard he's been flying the heavy stuff for the last couple of decades so I have to think he knew his stuff.

And if he uses a checklist every time, so will I.
 
Most aircraft have multi-page checklists. I retype and laminate them so that everything fits on one page (front/back) and I keep it tucked under my thigh so that it's always handy.

I've had only one in-flight emergency and knew exactly where to go and it saved our bacon. A checklist tucked in an inaccessible flap or behind the seat is of little use.
 
I think a lot of us could stand to get better at this, myself included.

The god-awful lawyer-written checklists in GA POH's are probably the main cause of this. I *never* run POH checklists in single-engine airplanes, I'd spend more time doing checklists than flying.

It was a real eye-opener to fly the Hawker 800 and see how concise and elegant the checklists were. That's a WAY more complex airplane than a 172, but I bet every item on every checklist all the way through cruise on the Hawker amounts to less than any single checklist on a 172. Pathetic... Which is why we tend to not use them.
 
Oh, and... I was wondering this earlier: I'm hoping to go for my initial CFI ride this year. If I use my own checklists, am I gonna get dinged for it? The FAA seems to have some awfully ingrained policies regarding "do what the book says, even if the book is stupid."
 
Gerhardt said:
Most aircraft have multi-page checklists. I retype and laminate them so that everything fits on one page (front/back) and I keep it tucked under my thigh so that it's always handy.
Click to expand...

I take the same approach. All checklists and some performance data on one side of an 8 1/2 x 11 sheet and all emergency procedures on the flip side. If I get a little down time in the plane (waiting on clearance, fuel truck, or whatever) I can easily review EPs.

Reduce all lists to just the essentials and write in your own shorthand is fine. I've seen several different mechanics grab and use my "start engine" list just fine. The 'kota isn't hard to start but it is a little different with an electric prime pump so most folks aren't familiar.
 
Send me a check for $10 every time you forget to use a check list.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I'm hoping to go for my initial CFI ride this year. If I use my own checklists, am I gonna get dinged for it?
Click to expand...

I used my own on my CFI-I ride. I doubt the inspector noticed.

Clark1961 said:
All checklists and some performance data on one side of an 8 1/2 x 11 sheet and all emergency procedures on the flip side.
Click to expand...

I find 8.5x11 checklists cumbersome.

Of course the dozen-page POH checklists can be cumbersome too, but with more efficient use of whitespace they can be slimmed down substantially.
 
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dans2992 said:
I use a written "before takeoff" checklist, but use a mental GUMPS check in the pattern.
Click to expand...

In preparing for the commercial, I've spent a fair amount of time on checklists and SOP's. For pre-landing, I don't think you can beat GUMPS. I add "red blue green" on final (mixture, prop, 3 green).
 
I use cigars and gumps. Check lists are just that, check lists. They are not do lists. That's the way I was taught. I also always lower my gear before I'm in the traffic pattern. It's worked for me so far (knocking on hard wood!).:yes:
 
comanche pilot said:
I use cigars and gumps. Check lists are just that, check lists. They are not do lists. That's the way I was taught. I also always lower my gear before I'm in the traffic pattern. It's worked for me so far (knocking on hard wood!).:yes:
Click to expand...

My experience is that CIGARS might not be so common. It does work jus' fine 'though.
 
I fly a 310 and have checklists loaded into the 530 that are relevant. I think the key point is relevant. On a normal flight, I do the before takeoff and before landing checks. Climb check is "set climb power". Cruise is "set cruise power." Switching tanks is... switching tanks. So I save the full out checklists for the common items. The Cessna checklist book with the emergency checklist procedures is next to my left leg for easy access.
 
This suggestion is from another pilot my dad told me about. To remember checklists and other procedures, the pilot wears a rubberband on his wrist and every time he needs run a checklist, he switches the rubber band to his other wrist. Maybe something like this can work for you
 
flyingcheesehead said:
It was a real eye-opener to fly the Hawker 800 and see how concise and elegant the checklists were. That's a WAY more complex airplane than a 172, but I bet every item on every checklist all the way through cruise on the Hawker amounts to less than any single checklist on a 172. Pathetic... Which is why we tend to not use them.
Click to expand...

Airbus Normal Checklist

a320checklist_zpse0a385c6.png
 
dans2992 said:
I use a written "before takeoff" checklist, but use a mental GUMPS check in the pattern.

I found being heads down looking at a checklist while near the airport impractical and perhaps unsafe.

Is this a poor practice?
Click to expand...

I personally think it's fine.

The notion that safety can only be achieve by doing exactly like the airlines do and by using a checklist all the time, isn't always good practice for small aircraft . The airline guys are 2 in the cockpit, always on A/P, always with ATC separation and can afford to take the time to do so - we can't all the time.

Personally, I use a checklist on the ground religiously. But once the gear comes up, it's all mnemonics. There are not that many things that can kill you if you forget an item before a landing - gear and mixture is pretty much it. Maybe booster pumps, maybe fuel selector, but that's about it. So nail those down with some kind of memory ditty, or write them on the dashboard. Sure, I've forgotten loads of things, flaps being the most common thing I forget to stow for some reason.

BTW, the sport for me is to reduce my checklist to the very bare minimums. Goal is to make them as lean as possible! It often takes a long time to get to that, but it's real satisfactory when you do….:yes:
 
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stratobee said:
I personally think it's fine.

The notion that safety can only be achieve by doing exactly like the airlines do and by using a checklist all the time, isn't always good practice for small aircraft .
Click to expand...

Why? Take a look at the post above yours where I posted an Airbus checklist. That checklist is shorter and more concise than most GA "checklist".

stratobee said:
The airline guys are 2 in the cockpit, always on A/P, always with ATC separation and can afford to take the time to do so - we can't all the time.
Click to expand...

Always on autopilot? :rolleyes2: Don't think so. :nonod:

Always with ATC separation? Again, don't think so. :nonod:

Checklist are just that, "check" list. Develop good flow patterns and use the checklist to confirm. Takes less than a minute to do most checklist items.


stratobee said:
Personally, I use a checklist on the ground religiously. But once the gear comes up, it's all mnemonics. There are not that many things that can kill you if you forget an item before a landing - gear and mixture is pretty much it. Maybe booster pumps, maybe fuel selector, but that's about it. So nail those down with some kind of memory ditty, or write them on the dashboard. Sure, I've forgotten loads of things, flaps being the most common thing I forget to stow for some reason.
Click to expand...

Flow patterns.
 
dans2992 said:
I use a written "before takeoff" checklist, but use a mental GUMPS check in the pattern.

I found being heads down looking at a checklist while near the airport impractical and perhaps unsafe.

Is this a poor practice?
Click to expand...

According to the PTS, failure to use the appropriate checklist means a busted checkride.

Bob Gardner
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Oh, and... I was wondering this earlier: I'm hoping to go for my initial CFI ride this year. If I use my own checklists, am I gonna get dinged for it? The FAA seems to have some awfully ingrained policies regarding "do what the book says, even if the book is stupid."
Click to expand...

Read the PTS for the CFI practical test...much better than opinions from those who hang out here.

Bob Gardner
 
bobmrg said:
According to the PTS, failure to use the appropriate checklist means a busted checkride.



Bob Gardner
Click to expand...


Ok, but what is an acceptable checklist? Is GUMPS a checklist? Is a flow pattern a checklist? Or are we always talking about a piece of paper?
 
RotorAndWing said:
Why? Take a look at the post above yours where I posted an Airbus checklist. That checklist is shorter and more concise than most GA "checklist".
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's very short and concise. Impressive.


RotorAndWing said:
Always on autopilot? :rolleyes2: Don't think so. :nonod:

Always with ATC separation? Again, don't think so. :nonod:
Click to expand...

OK, perhaps not always. But 99% of the time? Even though you might do a visual approach, you're still IFR and separated, right? There won't be some Cub without a radio attempting to cut you off. I'm sure there are some A320's that do full VFR approaches, but there can't be many.
 
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stratobee said:
OK, perhaps not always. But 99% of the time? Even though you might do a visual approach, you're still IFR and separated. There won't be some Cub without a radio attempting to cut you off. I'm sure there are some A320's that do full VFR approaches, but there can't be many.
Click to expand...

Do you believe airliners only fly in developed areas around the world? Ever fly in Central/South America? Africa? Asia? Northern Canada? Caribbean?

I routinely fly into VFR only airports with no ATC services other than a guy in a "tower" (if you want to call it that) giving wind and local QNH advisories.
 
RotorAndWing said:
Do you believe airliners only fly in developed areas around the world? Ever fly in Central/South America? Africa? Asia? Northern Canada? Caribbean?

I routinely fly into VFR only airports with no ATC services other than a guy in a "tower" (if you want to call it that) giving wind and local QNH advisories.
Click to expand...

OK, fine. But not single pilot, which was my original point. You can devote one pair of eyes outwards, while callouts and checklists is the responsibility of the other (or however you divide it).
 
stratobee said:
OK, fine. But not single pilot, which was my original point. You can devote one pair of eyes outwards, while callouts and checklists is the responsibility of the other (or however you divide it).
Click to expand...

Your point was to use "mnemonics" which is fine if that works for you. Most people develop flow patterns and verify with checklist which is the more accepted method.

Trying to justify not using a checklist as "time consuming" or difficult as single pilot operations is, to put it nicely, lame.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I think a lot of us could stand to get better at this, myself included.

The god-awful lawyer-written checklists in GA POH's are probably the main cause of this. I *never* run POH checklists in single-engine airplanes, I'd spend more time doing checklists than flying.

It was a real eye-opener to fly the Hawker 800 and see how concise and elegant the checklists were. That's a WAY more complex airplane than a 172, but I bet every item on every checklist all the way through cruise on the Hawker amounts to less than any single checklist on a 172. Pathetic... Which is why we tend to not use them.
Click to expand...

I had the same awakening. 5 1/2 pages for a 172 preflight??? I actually had an argument with a safety inspector from a FSDO who was upset with me for redesigning the 172 checklist for students. I told him the typical part 23 checklist was actually a hazard to safety. Too much information, wrong order, sometimes bad information. As a good example, if you are flying a turbocharged airplane look at the emergency check list for a turbo failure. Probably not there. That is a critical EP that should be there. Flying an old airplane... look at your electrical failure checklist. Probably pretty poor. I once flew an older 310 and had a total electrical failure. Nothing in the checklist. Opened up the POH and... nothing. I figured things out, but it would be nice to have a checklist for such a scenario.
Ironically another safety inspector from the same FSDO overheard the argument and asked me to get with some other CFIs with 121/135 backgrounds and help redesign part 23/CAR 3 checklists. Here are some designs I came up with over the years:
http://samdawsoncfi.com/checklists.html
 
RotorAndWing said:
Your point was to use "mnemonics" which is fine if that works for you. Most people develop flow patterns and verify with checklist which is the more accepted method.

Trying to justify not using a checklist as "time consuming" or difficult as single pilot operations is, to put it nicely, lame.
Click to expand...

I'll disagree slightly there. In everything up to the pattern, I've seen people use checklists; however, in the pattern the most I've even heard about is some variation of the GUMPS mnemonic.
 
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